Harmes - at least he has a go and takes the game on and isn't a shrinking violet and will continue to get better and I like him a lot.

Hogan; Ugly, bad, good.

In that order.

Edited March 29, 20169 yr by america de cali

48 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Absolutely agree. Like certain others, he's been unfairly maligned by many here in an unfair and uncritical way.

He's got good hands, he's evasive, and he's pretty quick.

I always take note of how the players assess other players. In my observation, the rest of the player group think Matt Jones is a good player.

In fact, I'll never forget Rodan saying Matt Jones was super hard to tackle - just so quick on his feet. And remember people, Rodan could dance.

That he played in round one after one of the best pre-seasons in living memory, with a relatively full list to pick from and a highly competent coaching group now assessing the players, says it all in my opinion.

 

I haven't maligned Jones but I also won't declare him as a "good player" until he does it more on a consistent basis.

He has had a very good preseason and was really good on Saturday - didn't fumble and disposed well. But that doesn't wipe out how ordinary his last 2 years have been.

I desperately want him to succeed. I want all the footballers who have had "their tickets stamped" to turn it around. It is very healthy to have competition for spots and if Jones keeps more fancied footballers out of the team that hopefully means because he is playing so well he has to be played - that is not a bad thing.  

Matthew Jones was recruited at the time when the club was a basket case....but, he set standards on the training track and others began to lift around him.

It helps that we now have an elite coaching group.

Just now, jumbo returns said:

Matthew Jones was recruited at the time when the club was a basket case....but, he set standards on the training track and others began to lift around him.

It helps that we now have an elite coaching group.

When did this occur?  Was he the one lifting standards when we couldn't win more than 4 games?

As nutbean says above - I'm happy to give him credit for his start to the season, he's been terrific, but it doesn't wash away his last couple of years of total mediocrity.  If he is still in the side and doing well by Round 10 or so then I'd be more than happy to agree with others that he's turned the corner.

He worked hard from day one, WB.

He set standards at training.

 

11 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Ah the old stats argument,.you know what they say....

Well falling clumsily into a players back 15m from goal won't show in the stats aside from being a free. It should be asterisked as a stupid free then it might help you with your analysis. Or you could watch his past games and you might then understand what I am talking about.

 

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

When did this occur?  Was he the one lifting standards when we couldn't win more than 4 games?

As nutbean says above - I'm happy to give him credit for his start to the season, he's been terrific, but it doesn't wash away his last couple of years of total mediocrity.  If he is still in the side and doing well by Round 10 or so then I'd be more than happy to agree with others that he's turned the corner.

The past has passed: the future lies ahead. 

Wallow, or enjoy. 

I love all the love for Matt Jones, he knew he had to work on his game, gone away worked in the off season, came back and had an excellent pre season, knows he is not a lock in so will be attempting to produce the same as Round 1 on a consistent basis........I said he would be in the Rd 1 team in October all going well

13 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

When did this occur?  Was he the one lifting standards when we couldn't win more than 4 games?

As nutbean says above - I'm happy to give him credit for his start to the season, he's been terrific, but it doesn't wash away his last couple of years of total mediocrity.  If he is still in the side and doing well by Round 10 or so then I'd be more than happy to agree with others that he's turned the corner.

He was always the one along with Viney when he arrived and Nate Jones trying to lift the standards, especially at training, I should know attended quite a few, it is not his fault if players didn't follow the lead

20 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Ah the old stats argument,.you know what they say....

Well falling clumsily into a players back 15m from goal won't show in the stats aside from being a free. It should be asterisked as a stupid free then it might help you with your analysis. Or you could watch his past games and you might then understand what I am talking about.

I do know what they say about stats... that they often show our intuitions to be incorrect.

Your claim that he gives away lots of stupid free kicks didn't sit well with me. I couldn't remember a single occasion where I thought he gave away a silly free kick. It seemed like the sort of thing a person would say about a player they were actively looking for negative traits in. I looked up the stats just to see whether your intuition had some merit or not. I don't think it does.

Glad to see you've pulled the standard "go and watch some football" argument, as though I haven't witnessed every game Melbourne has played in Melbourne live for well over a decade, and every other game on TV. What an inane insult to fall back on.

 

Quote

I do know what they say about stats... that they often show our intuitions to be incorrect.

Jnrmac has form Autocol.

http://demonland.com/forums/topic/39797-pre-season-winners-and-losers/?page=2#comment-1221947

I quite like his views and think he makes some good points but when he gets a player in the gun he will just make stuff up to pot them.  The link above is evidence and the first time I cared to check his "facts".  Heaven knows how often he has done it previously.

 

 

Edited March 30, 20169 yr by Baghdad Bob

20 hours ago, Spirit of 26 said:

Harmes - at least he has a go and takes the game on and isn't a shrinking violet and will continue to get better and I like him a lot.

Agreed, I'm a massive fan.

14 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

 

Jnrmac has form Autocol.

http://demonland.com/forums/topic/39797-pre-season-winners-and-losers/?page=2#comment-1221947

I quite like his views and thinks he makes some good points but when he gets a player in the gun he will just make stuff up to pot them.  The link above is evidence and the first time I cared to check his "facts".  Heaven knows how often he has done it previously.

 

 

Which brings us to Garland. Another player who is often maligned on this forum. I thought he played well on Saturday. Upon viewing the replay I couldn't really find any significant fault with his game.

1 hour ago, autocol said:

I do know what they say about stats... that they often show our intuitions to be incorrect.

Your claim that he gives away lots of stupid free kicks didn't sit well with me. I couldn't remember a single occasion where I thought he gave away a silly free kick. It seemed like the sort of thing a person would say about a player they were actively looking for negative traits in. I looked up the stats just to see whether your intuition had some merit or not. I don't think it does.

Glad to see you've pulled the standard "go and watch some football" argument, as though I haven't witnessed every game Melbourne has played in Melbourne live for well over a decade, and every other game on TV. What an inane insult to fall back on.

In the past, when he's given free kicks away they have often been stupid and avoidable.  I'm sure there are plenty of posters here who can recall him regularly falling into a players back when he tackles, a mistake that he doesn't need to make.  His stats might say one thing, but they don't say what type of free kicks they are that he does give away.  The argument wasn't that he gives more away, just that when he does they are silly.

Again, I'm glad he has started the season in a positive fashion, but that still doesn't wash away the last few years of below average football.  I still have nightmares of the West Coast game last year where his disposal, particularly under any sort of pressure, was nothing short of atrocious.

7 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

He was always the one along with Viney when he arrived and Nate Jones trying to lift the standards, especially at training, I should know attended quite a few, it is not his fault if players didn't follow the lead

In what way did N Jones, Viney and M Jones try to lift training standards? Was it longer hours, more intense efforts, verbal encouragement? I'm not doubting you but just curious. 

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

In what way did N Jones, Viney and M Jones try to lift training standards? Was it longer hours, more intense efforts, verbal encouragement? I'm not doubting you but just curious. 

All of the above    making sure players actually listened to what was being said   Dunny was another hence why he was a VC last year    Matt Jones not the most vocal  but respected by team mates