1 minute ago, mattjm said:

and who do you suggest thats gettable atm?

That supposes an absolute quantifiable answer. It's not actually needed to satisfy the argument. . Who would be mids..who would be forwards ?  There are some.and not always in the obvious places.  So might it be with backs.

Are you suggesting we simply keep anyone...for any reason...just in case..Or look to change if required ?

Just now, beelzebub said:

That supposes an absolute quantifiable answer. It's not actually needed to satisfy the argument. . Who would be mids..who would be forwards ?  There are some.and not always in the obvious places.  So might it be with backs.

Are you suggesting we simply keep anyone...for any reason...just in case..Or look to change if required ?

answer the question 

2 minutes ago, mattjm said:

so do you think garland and dunn holding down fb and chb would be a better replacement?

Why do yo go to them. Im supposing the club might look further...see other answer

As straw arguments go...ooh about a 5/10

 

tate pears, lachie hansen, nathan brown, troy chaplin, daniel merrett.. all worse options.

hate to tell you. but there is nothing else out there 

1 minute ago, mattjm said:

answer the question 

lol....Who knows who out there that will move come end of season. So if  no one will play your little game then you win ?  we HAVE to stick with the MAcs ?

Did we know a Vince was available.. Even a Bugg.  Not to say these are the types o quality avail but the reality is even if I dont know who might be...neither do you.

We have a WHOLE dept currently keeping tabs on who might be..go ask them

Just now, beelzebub said:

lol....Who knows who out there that will move come end of season. So if  no one will play your little game then you win ?  we HAVE to stick with the MAcs ?

Did we know a Vince was available.. Even a Bugg.  Not to say these are the types o quality avail but the reality is even if I dont know who might be...neither do you.

We have a WHOLE dept currently keeping tabs on who might be..go ask them

give me one name

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

lol....Who knows who out there that will move come end of season. So if  no one will play your little game then you win ?  we HAVE to stick with the MAcs ?

Did we know a Vince was available.. Even a Bugg.  Not to say these are the types o quality avail but the reality is even if I dont know who might be...neither do you.

We have a WHOLE dept currently keeping tabs on who might be..go ask them

we knew vince and bugg weren't getting their contract terms met/renewed. you are wrong

Hurely, May...possibly but just as unlikley. Day maybe but looks to be signing

N Brown  could an interesting get, maybe too old 

I dont think Tmac is totally for the trash..just hes useless as our key  Defender...hes not up to it

On 6/20/2016 at 11:22 PM, beelzebub said:

Hurely, May...possibly but just as unlikley. Day maybe but looks to be signing

N Brown  could an interesting get, maybe too old 

I dont think Tmac is totally for the trash..just hes useless as our key  Defender...hes not up to it

I thought Nathan brown would develop into one of the best defenders going around but he seems to have stalled, he's not super old yet so maybe a new team might re-ignite him as a player and could prove to be a value pick up, he's a premiership defender and in my opinion a better option than Frost or Omac for now and wouldn't cost very much in a trade i wouldn't have thought. 

he's definitely a player who if not the MFC i think another club will be pretty happy to pick up, plenty of clubs who could use him.

11 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I dont think Tmac is totally for the trash..just hes useless as our key  Defender...hes not up to it

Agree Bub. McDonald is not a #1 KPD. He will become much less of a problem for us if he were able to take a #2 or even #3 (Frost @ #2) KPF.

He is the best overhead mark in our KPD stocks, so a similar role to what Rivers' played with us could really suit him.

9 hours ago, binman said:

Totally agree. I watched the game at a pub and when he was weighing up his options said out loud 'don't cross it!'.

And then he did. Ugh

Tom has moments of indecsion every week and invariably makes the wrong decision that costs goals or momentum 

When you watch live close to the boundary  you can see the whole team drop and a lot of head shaking.

He has to learn soon to take the first best option and not think.He lacks footy smarts at the moment and it will stop him from becoming a great defender who has all the physical skills but he he not using those skill smartly at the moment

I reckon he will be signed before we play the crows. I'm thinking we may get 2 or 3 signatures over the next two weeks.

Was at the SCG to watch the slog in the wet (or in racing terms on a very heavy track), so don't have the benefit of TV commentary and replays; but I can say that Tom was good. He was one of the very few Melbourne players I had confidence of catching the wet ball - the let it his chest simultaneously securing it with his arms as opposed to guiding the ball with hands/arms to the chest as many other players.  Yes he played off Franklin to a certain extent but I understand this is team instructions (game plan) and if his players gets an easy kick it's the fault of midfielders and forwards for not applying adequate pressure on the kicker so that a slower/higher kick is the result (allowing our backs to cover the necessary ground to spoil).  From what I observed and the rain was consisted all day, no full back (playing our game plan would have held Franklin to any less), if memory serves me correct a few of his possession just resulted from plain old mongrel kicks.

Interesting to note that Petrecca's class stood out in the wet

 

31 minutes ago, Ungarie boy said:

Was at the SCG to watch the slog in the wet (or in racing terms on a very heavy track), so don't have the benefit of TV commentary and replays; but I can say that Tom was good. He was one of the very few Melbourne players I had confidence of catching the wet ball - the let it his chest simultaneously securing it with his arms as opposed to guiding the ball with hands/arms to the chest as many other players.  Yes he played off Franklin to a certain extent but I understand this is team instructions (game plan) and if his players gets an easy kick it's the fault of midfielders and forwards for not applying adequate pressure on the kicker so that a slower/higher kick is the result (allowing our backs to cover the necessary ground to spoil).  From what I observed and the rain was consisted all day, no full back (playing our game plan would have held Franklin to any less), if memory serves me correct a few of his possession just resulted from plain old mongrel kicks.

Interesting to note that Petrecca's class stood out in the wet

 

I dont think anyone's ever questioned Tommy's marking ability.  He's good.  it's always more about what comes next !! 

I dont rate Tmac on the basis of what Buddy DOES....I rate him on what HE does

Not a lot of dry spots at the SCG when it blows....youre keen !!

Edited June 21, 20169 yr by beelzebub

Particularly on the fence behind the goals.  It was very wet. Couldn't even eat my packet of chips without them getting soggy 

Not a lot of fullbacks are expected to do a lot with the ball, Frawley and Lake are two premiership fullbacks who are prone to brain fades with ball in hand and not penetrating kicks.  Rance is all Australian and has had a knock on his disposal since the 18's.  Zac Dawson doesn't inspire confidence.  Bulldogs renowned for their back half disposal has , Dale Morris who is best regarded as serviceable.

More often than not it's the players up the field that let MacDonald down by not providing numerous good timely options.  e.g. he looks to play on quickly, part of the attacking game plan and see's nothing ahead, so then has to make another decision, someone is not making an effort but it is now a more dangerous option requiring more precise skills, unfortunately as this is not the first instinctive option there is now more pressure being applied by the opposition - resulting in a harder kick to a less than perfect option.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing on TMac's disposal or decision making, but I do credit him with being be brave enough to continually take the game on.  

Interesting that Frawley's kicking is no longer questioned as he is continually provided with simple options by his team mates.

 

 

Edited June 21, 20169 yr by Ungarie boy

The intelligent response to what Tom had in front of him...is to do that...kick to who was in front of him...not behind him...at the goal . Oscar wasn't in the right spot for what Tom seemed to think would work.  And it didnt .  What he needed to do was look upfield immediately..glance to side..realise Oscar WASNT ON  ( i.e not in position to really either take it and run  or rekick.  At this point he just needed to wheel around and kick it as far as he could to the wing boundary to be thumped over. The SCG is a kick shorter than most grounds, this would have been the most effective disposal.

This again goes to my suggestion he might think...but falls down reasoning. Sometimes it's better to kick to a contest whether it's there or not than to hesitate and get dacked or fluff it.. At least the balls further up the field.   In wet weather footy gets REAL simple for the good teams.

Footy isnt rocket science

1 hour ago, Ungarie boy said:

Particularly on the fence behind the goals.  It was very wet. Couldn't even eat my packet of chips without them getting soggy 

Not a lot of fullbacks are expected to do a lot with the ball, Frawley and Lake are two premiership fullbacks who are prone to brain fades with ball in hand and not penetrating kicks.  Rance is all Australian and has had a knock on his disposal since the 18's.  Zac Dawson doesn't inspire confidence.  Bulldogs renowned for their back half disposal has , Dale Morris who is best regarded as serviceable.

More often than not it's the players up the field that let MacDonald down by not providing numerous good timely options.  e.g. he looks to play on quickly, part of the attacking game plan and see's nothing ahead, so then has to make another decision, someone is not making an effort but it is now a more dangerous option requiring more precise skills, unfortunately as this is not the first instinctive option there is now more pressure being applied by the opposition - resulting in a harder kick to a less than perfect option.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing on TMac's disposal or decision making, but I do credit him with being be brave enough to continually take the game on.  

Interesting that Frawley's kicking is no longer questioned as he is continually provided with simple options by his team mates.

 

 

The reality is TMac never takes the first or simple option. Someone needs to put their arm around him and say take the first option, no slow motion side steps, no risky switches just keep it simple. Has all the ability but needs to understand what he can do. He is so worried about turnovers that he holds the ball too long waiting for ideal option then trys to hit that option under pressure, He needs to trust his teammates to win the next contest and just give the first option every time. Its not a complicated problem. Some games he does it then others he just seems to forget. 

I think it is time to leave the "taking the game on" to Wagner, Hunt, Bernie and when he is back Salem. They have the skills/attributes to back it up. We need a team that takes the game on that doesnt mean that all 22 players need to close there eyes and run into trouble. Some need to be able to just play to their ability. He cops alot but OMac is doing that very well, first option, simple kicks. He is showing more footy smarts than his brother right now.

7 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

The reality is TMac never takes the first or simple option. Someone needs to put their arm around him and say take the first option, no slow motion side steps, no risky switches just keep it simple. Has all the ability but needs to understand what he can do. He is so worried about turnovers that he holds the ball too long waiting for ideal option then trys to hit that option under pressure, He needs to trust his teammates to win the next contest and just give the first option every time. Its not a complicated problem. Some games he does it then others he just seems to forget. 

I think it is time to leave the "taking the game on" to Wagner, Hunt, Bernie and when he is back Salem. They have the skills/attributes to back it up. We need a team that takes the game on that doesnt mean that all 22 players need to close there eyes and run into trouble. Some need to be able to just play to their ability. He cops alot but OMac is doing that very well, first option, simple kicks. He is showing more footy smarts than his brother right now.

poetically succinct

the rest I agree also

14 hours ago, mattjm said:

so do you think garland and dunn holding down fb and chb would be a better replacement?

Why would you assume that? That's not what you said. You can't weasel out of it. You asked us to imagine the team without either of the two McDonalds. Pretty easy really.

Edited June 21, 20169 yr by jnrmac

Worst conditions for AFL football, I've ever seen, so I'd be going a bit easy.

I didn't think our backs were that bad and despite the brothers one stuff up reckon they did ok. It was a tough day at the office. Hunt too stuffed a couple, up but I thought he was terrific. He just took it on, no matter what. Really impressed with his never give in attitude.

Despite Jones and Viney's flattering stats I felt our midfield  ex Vince were a little disappointing.  Thought Maxxy gave them many chances and they just weren't as clean or as hard at it as the A grade Sydney mids. The Sydney mids just take their attack at the ball or the ball carrier to a different level. I also admired their off the ball blocking for their team mates. Their mids are always doing something for the team and rarely out of the game. At every contest they just seemed to be asking "what can I do for the side". We have come a long way but Sydney taught us a bit.

Was sitting right next to our players race and young Oliver had to come in mid game for treatment for something and TMc was proppy too. Don't know if this was shown on TV.

29 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Worst conditions for AFL football, I've ever seen, so I'd be going a bit easy.

I didn't think our backs were that bad and despite the brothers one stuff up reckon they did ok. It was a tough day at the office. Hunt too stuffed a couple, up but I thought he was terrific. He just took it on, no matter what. Really impressed with his never give in attitude.

Despite Jones and Viney's flattering stats I felt our midfield  ex Vince were a little disappointing.  Thought Maxxy gave them many chances and they just weren't as clean or as hard at it as the A grade Sydney mids. The Sydney mids just take their attack at the ball or the ball carrier to a different level. I also admired their off the ball blocking for their team mates. Their mids are always doing something for the team and rarely out of the game. At every contest they just seemed to be asking "what can I do for the side". We have come a long way but Sydney taught us a bit.

Was sitting right next to our players race and young Oliver had to come in mid game for treatment for something and TMc was proppy too. Don't know if this was shown on TV.

I was at the game and apart from Tmac making some very "park footballer" mistakes I agree that the backs did the best they could. One area that I would have liked to see is BIG MAX punching the ball forward, like White did in his day. We were getting "bullied" and beaten up in the centre because MAX was trying to tap the very very very wet and slippery ball to our mids like it was a dry day. Changing it up every so often and using his advantage in the ruck by smashing towards our CHF line may have reduced the packs forming and given our runners & forwards more time in the conditions. I would just like to see more of a "PLAN B" based on the conditions and how the game is being played by our opposition.

13 hours ago, GawnWithTheWind said:

I reckon he will be signed before we play the crows. I'm thinking we may get 2 or 3 signatures over the next two weeks.

Hunch or sauce?

Some interesting stats from:- http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-06-22/the-numbers-that-really-matter-for-your-club

 

Spoils
Tom McDonald (7.8 – No.5), Oscar McDonald (6.3 – No.21), Colin Garland (3.7 – No. 55)

Intercept marks
Tom McDonald (2.7 – No.7), Oscar McDonald (1.5 – No.52)

Effective kicks inside 50
Tomas Bugg (67 per cent – No.7), Dean Kent (62 per cent – No.23), Jeff Garlett (61 per cent – No.27)

Player Ratings points
Max Gawn (16.8 points – No.9), Jack Viney (14.8 – No.24), Tom McDonald (13.4 – No.59)

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Some interesting stats from:- http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-06-22/the-numbers-that-really-matter-for-your-club

 

Spoils
Tom McDonald (7.8 – No.5), Oscar McDonald (6.3 – No.21), Colin Garland (3.7 – No. 55)

Intercept marks
Tom McDonald (2.7 – No.7), Oscar McDonald (1.5 – No.52)

Effective kicks inside 50
Tomas Bugg (67 per cent – No.7), Dean Kent (62 per cent – No.23), Jeff Garlett (61 per cent – No.27)

Player Ratings points
Max Gawn (16.8 points – No.9), Jack Viney (14.8 – No.24), Tom McDonald (13.4 – No.59)

there are some things he does well

there are some things he does not-so-well !! 

On 6/19/2016 at 3:55 PM, KrazyJay said:

His kick across the face of goal that put O-Mac under pressure early stages of the 3rd when we were 4 goals down which resulted in a goal to the Swans had me losing my $hit beyond belief and nearly demolishing my lounge room!!

Seriously?! I am not a T-Mac basher but the bloke has some of the worst brain fades I have ever witnessed... 

Before he even kicked it I knew Omac would drop it and it'd result in a momentum changing goal. We were holding on at that stage and had just kicked one or two. That effectively killed the game.