Training - Monday 1st February, 2016

[DeeSpencer 25,484]

Dawes is in the rehab group. No taping that I could see. Moved pretty well, kicked and marked with Lumumba.

Pedo was part of the main sessions, covered the ground decently, looks in as good a nick as I've seen him at the club, did still go in to his lumbering gait when approaching a couple of contests which cost him time. But he also laid a couple of really strong tackles. He appears like he needs match fitness to get used to game specific efforts, but that's true of a lot of big guys.

Frost has a brilliant turn of speed, but flies for his marks without a hope in hell of holding them, the ball bursts off his hands and if he doesn't settle before he kicks it can go anywhere. He's a stronger, possibly faster version of Fitzy but with similar skills.

Mitch King jogged laps.

I suggest we forget all the hypothetical [censored] and see what happens.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

Dawes is in the rehab group. No taping that I could see. Moved pretty well, kicked and marked with Lumumba.

Pedo was part of the main sessions, covered the ground decently, looks in as good a nick as I've seen him at the club, did still go in to his lumbering gait when approaching a couple of contests which cost him time. But he also laid a couple of really strong tackles. He appears like he needs match fitness to get used to game specific efforts, but that's true of a lot of big guys.

Frost has a brilliant turn of speed, but flies for his marks without a hope in hell of holding them, the ball bursts off his hands and if he doesn't settle before he kicks it can go anywhere. He's a stronger, possibly faster version of Fitzy but with similar skills.

Mitch King jogged laps.

I suggest we forget all the hypothetical [censored] and see what happens.

What's your thoughts on The Weed DS? Was he competing well? Do you think he'll get a game in the first half of the year?

 

[Wormburner 674]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

Dawes is in the rehab group. No taping that I could see. Moved pretty well, kicked and marked with Lumumba.

Pedo was part of the main sessions, covered the ground decently, looks in as good a nick as I've seen him at the club, did still go in to his lumbering gait when approaching a couple of contests which cost him time. But he also laid a couple of really strong tackles. He appears like he needs match fitness to get used to game specific efforts, but that's true of a lot of big guys.

Frost has a brilliant turn of speed, but flies for his marks without a hope in hell of holding them, the ball bursts off his hands and if he doesn't settle before he kicks it can go anywhere. He's a stronger, possibly faster version of Fitzy but with similar skills.

Mitch King jogged laps.

I suggest we forget all the hypothetical [censored] and see what happens.

Just remember Frost hasn't played in almost 12 months. You'd expect him to be a bit untidy, esp in match sim and under pressure. Give him time.

[dazzledavey36 54,301]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Really. You really think Pedo has a better tank than Dawes?

With the new interchange/sub rules, I guess we'll see who Roos picks come the start of the season hey?

 

Point out where i said 'Pedo has a better tank then Dawes' ?

You made the statement of saying Pedersen never gets a kick in the 2nd half which means we are a man down. I then stated that this was complete and utter rubbish because  Pedersen has contributed just as much in the 2nd half of games where he has kicked some crucial clutching goals and played out the games well. 

Dawes might have a better tank who knows? But he is simply next to useless and doesn't impact games like Pedo does. Now before you try and put words into my mouth i am not saying Pedersen is a very good player. Just that he is a much better forward prospect then Dawes.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

Point out where i said 'Pedo has a better tank then Dawes' ?

You made the statement of saying Pedersen never gets a kick in the 2nd half which means we are a man down. I then stated that this was complete and utter rubbish because  Pedersen has contributed just as much in the 2nd half of games where he has kicked some crucial clutching goals and played out the games well. 

Dawes might have a better tank who knows? But he is simply next to useless and doesn't impact games like Pedo does. Now before you try and put words into my mouth i am not saying Pedersen is a very good player. Just that he is a much better forward prospect then Dawes.

You've been around long enough to know discussion of these two is intertwined, don't play naive now to suit your little agenda with the usual gang.

You can state your opinions as facts as much as you like, it doesn't make them true. You can be speculative about who has the better tank if you like, but I've watched all their games so it's pretty obvious to me. Dawes averages more time on the ground than Pedersen even when carrying a calf injury, what does that tell you?

The FACTS are one of these forward options is in the leadership group, has a premiership, has played twice as many games despite being a year younger and is consistently picked in the 22 ahead of the other one by our premiership winning coach. Can you guess which is which? And same as you, I'm not saying Dawes is a great player, just that he has the edge over Pedo according to our coaching staff.

 

 

[Slartibartfast 17,201]

13 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Dawes might have a better tank who knows? But he is simply next to useless and doesn't impact games like Pedo does. 

I don't think this is right.  Dawes was terrific against the Cats and also very good against Collingwood in our win this year.  When he plays well as he did in these games (as well as the win in Adelaide against the Crows) we are a much better team.

Why you're bothering to argue the marginal merits of two players who are both inconsistent and over the journey have been unreliable I don't know.  They are much of a muchness and you'd be no more confident with one or the other.

 

Edit:  Sorry to barge in on your conversation Stu, but it is a forum you know.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Baghdad Bob

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I don't think this is right.  Dawes was terrific against the Cats and also very good against Collingwood in our win this year.  When he plays well as he did in these games (as well as the win in Adelaide against the Crows) we are a much better team.

Why you're bothering to argue the marginal merits of two players who are both inconsistent and over the journey have been unreliable I don't know.  They are much of a muchness and you'd be no more confident with one or the other.

It's the "spud or star" mentality of Demonland. DD thinks Dawes is a spud, so Pedo must be a star who "impacts games". The reality is it's a grey area, both are just gap filler options until we develop or trade in a better one.

[stuie 7,374]

7 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Edit:  Sorry to barge in on your conversation Stu, but it is a forum you know.

Not at all BB. You're at least talking footy when you barge! And you raise some good points, including the fact that neither of these two are vital to our success going forward, and there is not a lot between them. Bring on The Weed!

 

[Moonshadow 17,675]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

It's the "spud or star" mentality of Demonland. DD thinks Dawes is a spud, so Pedo must be a star who "impacts games". The reality is it's a grey area, both are just gap filler options until we develop or trade in a better one.

Yeah, that's exactly what Dazzle said. Riiiiight....

At least your last sentence is correct. Well done.

Sincere apologies for engaging in a conversation without you prior approval "stuie"

[beelzebub 23,313]

Neither Dawes nor  Pedo are the answer  though tbh  Ive forgotten what the question was !

[monoccular 17,413]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Our players running and spreading will be a big win for us. They have never done that in the past with any regularity. Short fast chip kicks are likely to hit a target but they rely on instinctive quick kicks, not the crap we have seen over the years of mark, run 20m behind the mark, wait for the opposition to man everyone up and then bomb it long to the boundary. A team under the pump and with no confidence in their team mates or game plan plays this way.

Short kicks rely on taking the first opton and lots of running. It also only works if you have committed team mates running to space. The Hawks do it. So do West Coast. There is a confidence in leaving your man to run to space, repeatedly sometimes. Without always being rewarded with a stat. This is selfless, team based football and something we have not had for a long time. That is where on field leadership comes in. When the system breaks down (ie we miss a target and cause a t/over) you need leaders to stand up and force their team mates to continue doing the right thing and running and spreading.

If I see this I will be happy that know we are on the right track.

 

Our lack of run and spread, and of offering 'decoy' ie up rewarded leads to thin the opposition numbers at the contest has been a very sore point for me for years, maybe decades.  It has to me reflected laziness and even maybe self satisfaction.....hopefully we have turned that important corner that will make us very competitive.

1 hour ago, rjay said:

.........I hope we don't need to have this Dawes/Pedersen discussion for much longer though. The one I want is how we best use Hogan, Weideman & Hulett..

How sweet would that be.  Time to move on.  

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

It's the "spud or star" mentality of Demonland. DD thinks Dawes is a spud, so Pedo must be a star who "impacts games". The reality is it's a grey area, both are just gap filler options until we develop or trade in a better one.

Mods - is re a way to block specific posters so that one doesn't have to read and reread rubbish?

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, monoccular said:

Mods - is re a way to block specific posters so that one doesn't have to read and reread rubbish?

If you hover above someone's username it will bring up a box where you can click "ignore user".

Also, you could always not quote someone's post if you want to ignore them....

 

[Wilson7 2,663]

12 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I don't think this is right.  Dawes was terrific against the Cats and also very good against Collingwood in our win this year.  When he plays well as he did in these games (as well as the win in Adelaide against the Crows) we are a much better team.

Why you're bothering to argue the marginal merits of two players who are both inconsistent and over the journey have been unreliable I don't know.  They are much of a muchness and you'd be no more confident with one or the other.

 

Edit:  Sorry to barge in on your conversation Stu, but it is a forum you know.

Dawes was ordinary against the Cats, 4 kicks, 2 marks, 0 goals

[dazzledavey36 54,301]

10 minutes ago, stuie said:

It's the "spud or star" mentality of Demonland. DD thinks Dawes is a spud, so Pedo must be a star who "impacts games". The reality is it's a grey area, both are just gap filler options until we develop or trade in a better one.

Oh gawd.. 'pedo must be a star' again NO ONE has mentioned this at all. Your doing what you do best and thats put words into peoples mouths. Of course they are not world beaters but Pedersen impacts games better then Dawes and i personally think he is a better option right next to Hogan.

I don't give a [censored] if he has won a flag or been in a leadership group. Plenty of spuds have done that in the past. He is no different to them.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Oh gawd.. 'pedo must be a star' again NO ONE has mentioned this at all. Your doing what you do best and thats put words into peoples mouths. Of course they are not world beaters but Pedersen impacts games better then Dawes and i personally think he is a better option right next to Hogan.

I don't give a [censored] if he has won a flag or been in a leadership group. Plenty of spuds have done that in the past. He is no different to them.

Do you even English? I didn't say YOU said Pedo is a star, I said you think Dawes is a spud. Then using the Demonland logic of "spud or star" that must mean Pedo is a star.

You're quickly becoming like the banana gang of DC, Moonie & BBO who just like to make the same accusations over and over again whether they apply or not, because they prefer having personal attacks at posters rather than discussing the footy. There's a reason why those guys have a rubbish-filled thread pretty much to themselves.

You can not give a stuff about whatever you want, but Roos seems to think that stuff is important enough to continue to select Dawes over Pedo, so that tips the balance for me.

 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,220]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Do you even English? I didn't say YOU said Pedo is a star, I said you think Dawes is a spud. Then using the Demonland logic of "spud or star" that must mean Pedo is a star.

You're quickly becoming like the banana gang of DC, Moonie & BBO who just like to make the same accusations over and over again whether they apply or not, because they prefer having personal attacks at posters rather than discussing the footy. There's a reason why those guys have a rubbish-filled thread pretty much to themselves.

You can not give a stuff about whatever you want, but Roos seems to think that stuff is important enough to continue to select Dawes over Pedo, so that tips the balance for me.

 

As I alluded to above Stu, you no longer seem capable of adult discussion and are more and more reliant on personal attacks.

Sad really.

 

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Quote

Don't you even English

I prefer French.

[Grapeviney 9,712]

3 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Yeah 

 

 

2 hours ago, stuie said:

Do

 

 

2 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

As

 

FFS put each other on ignore.

People are sick of reading the same petty crap between the same posters in thread after thread, day after day.

Stop the personal attacks and the point-scoring or you'll get a holiday. 

 

[dazzledavey36 54,301]

41 minutes ago, stuie said:

Do you even English? I didn't say YOU said Pedo is a star, I said you think Dawes is a spud. Then using the Demonland logic of "spud or star" that must mean Pedo is a star.

You're quickly becoming like the banana gang of DC, Moonie & BBO who just like to make the same accusations over and over again whether they apply or not, because they prefer having personal attacks at posters rather than discussing the footy. There's a reason why those guys have a rubbish-filled thread pretty much to themselves.

You can not give a stuff about whatever you want, but Roos seems to think that stuff is important enough to continue to select Dawes over Pedo, so that tips the balance for me.

 

Where have i personally attack you to the point where i am put in the same category as those guys? 

I have not used any so called 'demonland logic' at all. I have used the logic of 'My personal opinion' in stating why Pedersen is a much better forward structure to us then Dawes. Again stop trying to speak personally for me and say i am using a demonland logic when CLEARLY i am not.

[stuie 7,374]

25 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Where have i personally attack you to the point where i am put in the same category as those guys? 

I have not used any so called 'demonland logic' at all. I have used the logic of 'My personal opinion' in stating why Pedersen is a much better forward structure to us then Dawes. Again stop trying to speak personally for me and say i am using a demonland logic when CLEARLY i am not.

Let's not push each other into that category then. Think we can both agree that neither of Dawes or Pedo are going to take us forward and hopefully one of the young blokes or a trade-in can give us what we need.

I've been swayed a bit about Frost playing forward after being 100% on him having to be a backman, what's your thoughts on where he will play this year vs where his best position is in the future?

 

[dazzledavey36 54,301]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Let's not push each other into that category then. Think we can both agree that neither of Dawes or Pedo are going to take us forward and hopefully one of the young blokes or a trade-in can give us what we need.

I've been swayed a bit about Frost playing forward after being 100% on him having to be a backman, what's your thoughts on where he will play this year vs where his best position is in the future?

 

Agree on both fronts. Personally i love him down back but there is something about his raw power and speed that i find intriguing and would love to see him become an X factor up forward.

 

Ps I was also not having a dig at you guys in Moonie Dc and Bitter. If that came out the wrong way my apologies.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Agree on both fronts. Personally i love him down back but there is something about his raw power and speed that i find intriguing and would love to see him become an X factor up forward.

I'm about the same. My only worry with him forward though is that he's a poor kick and he could waste valuable opportunities in a team so poor at clearances and inside 50s. I know he'd be more of a defensive forward, but that's not totally what we need. Having Kent, Frost & Petracca across half forward is mouth watering though, especially if Frost can get his tank up to the point where he can lead really high and be more of a link up than a shot for goal. Would scare a fair few opposition mids too.

 

 

[McQueen 17,864]

Private messaging is a pretty cool function.

[nutbean 8,838]

1 hour ago, Grapeviney said:

 

 

Stop the personal attacks and the point-scoring or you'll get a holiday. 

 

Why are rewarding this behaviour by giving them a holiday ?

Wouldn't banning them from the site be more apt ?

oh wait.....scrub that...

[nutbean 8,838]

I enjoy the Dawes/Pedo debate.

I think we all agree that we need better than both.

Pedo's best is better than Dawes but he shows it less than Dawes - As Rjay alluded to  - Pedo is a bit lazy and goes missing for great chunks of the games.

Dawes never reaches any great heights but works harder than Pedo and is constantly competing and bringing the ball to ground - I love that if he cant get the ball cleanly he still tries to impact the contest by bullocking, blocking, shepharding, harrassing. The trouble is that you can't base your entire game around 1%'s - at some stage as a key forward you have to take marks and kick goals and Dawes does not do this enough. We need the likes of Hogan - he doesn't do 1%er's  - he doesn't need to because he 99%ers are so damn good.