Round 1 Team

[P-man 13,367]

MM, good post but is Frost's forward pressure really the selling point for playing him forward? I understand the argument but he still didn't manage to lay a tackle on the weekend.

He just looks so unconvincing as a forward. As a defender he looks right in his comfort zone where he has to track his opponent, and those line breaking runs out of the back half could be a real weapon for us.

Pedo is no star but he's a reliable mark, kick for goal and serviceable pinch hit ruck. The others you mention are equipped to provide the increased forward pressure it seems will become a feature this season. Frost seems surplus to the requirements in the forwardline.

[dazzledavey36 56,345]

Not MFC news but..

 

Real Footy (AFL) ‏@RealFooty1 2m2 minutes ago

Geelong forward Mitch Clark will miss the start of the @AFL season after a setback in his recovery from a calf injury

 

 

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

3 hours ago, P-man said:

MM, good post but is Frost's forward pressure really the selling point for playing him forward? I understand the argument but he still didn't manage to lay a tackle on the weekend.

He just looks so unconvincing as a forward. As a defender he looks right in his comfort zone where he has to track his opponent, and those line breaking runs out of the back half could be a real weapon for us.

Pedo is no star but he's a reliable mark, kick for goal and serviceable pinch hit ruck. The others you mention are equipped to provide the increased forward pressure it seems will become a feature this season. Frost seems surplus to the requirements in the forwardline.

I am not the biggest fan of Pedo, but his second half form was very handy. In terms of why go with Frost, I think you can have both but in terms of long term possibilities Frost has the higher ceiling. 

Me may not have lay a tackle but the pressure he puts on stands and the speed he can provide around the ground and up forward is much more significant than Pedo. Admittedly I think there is room for both frost, hogan and pedo/Dawes, especially with Watts playing higher up the ground. But who knows. 

I just don't see the idea of not giving Frost a crack at the position and giving him a chance to develop

[thevil1 421]

8 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Some interesting insights. I need to watch this replay.

Interesting insights? They were so good with this pressure mm says he saw but both had 0 tackles! Lol

 

Btw, Garland's role is not just 3rd man up in defense, I don't know what game some of you were watching. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,509]

21 minutes ago, thevil1 said:

Interesting insights? They were so good with this pressure mm says he saw but both had 0 tackles! Lol

 

Btw, Garland's role is not just 3rd man up in defense, I don't know what game some of you were watching. 

What game was I watching? 

I didn't watch the game as I said.

[dee-luded 2,959]

On 28/2/2016 at 5:30 PM, Lord Travis said:

FB: Garland  Dunn Jetta

HB: Salem  McDonald   ?????

C: Tyson  Viney  Brayshaw

HF: Vanders  Pedo  Watts

FF: Garlett  Hogan  Kent

Foll:  Gawn  Vince  Jones

Int: Kennedy Bugg ???  ???

Harmes, Oliver, Stretch, Grimes and a few others fighting for the other spots. Was hoping to see someone else own a HBF but it didn't happen unfortunately. Hunts defensive work was poor and we barely saw any speed or rebound from him. Wagner got better as the game went on but was still nothing to write home about. Would be great to have Melksham or Lumumba available to take that other HBF.

If Brayshaw is fit he plays. Don't risk him if he's not 100% though obviously. Hoping both Oliver and Petracca can debut not far into the season also to add midfield and forward depth.

I've got Pedo at CHF. He's not great, but at least he clunks a mark and kicks a goal every now and then. He can give Gawn a rest from rucking also. Frost is woeful as a forward and should only ever play in the red and blue as a defender.

Hi LT..

 

I don't understand why supporters keep on putting Viney in the Pivot?  to me, at least in the old ways, the more skilled inside type player like a Tyson or Brayshaw, would ususually get the pivot role?

& someone like Viney,  who flourishes in the crushes,  would be R/R or in todays roles,  as the Rover, changing via rotations.   I agree Viney should be in-under, but in the Ruck division?

 

so I guess i would choose,  as a base model for 2016 teams,  something like >

 

FB: Garland/Frost,  Dunn,  Jetta

HB: Salem,  TMcDonald/Frost,  Vince/Brayshaw/Lamumba

C: Tyson/Hunt,  Tyson/Brayshaw,  Grimes/Kent

HF: Vanders/Kent/Grimes,  TMcDonald/Pedo,  Watts/Viney

FF: Garlett,  Hogan,  Watts/Pedo/Frost

 

Foll:  Gawn  Jones/Brayshaw/Vince,  Jones/Viney

 

Int from: Pedo, Vince, Grimes, Lamumba, Kennedy, Bugg, MJones, Hunt,

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

10 hours ago, thevil1 said:

Interesting insights? They were so good with this pressure mm says he saw but both had 0 tackles! Lol

 

So the only way to create pressure is to have a tackle? Watch the highlight of Ben Kennedys goal to understand my point, Frost indirectly causes the turnover by pushing up to create pressure on Robbie Grey with the direct result being a goal. Does he lay a tackle, no, but Robbie Grey had no space and handballed it back to Impey who was immediately under pressure then tackled resulting in a turn over and a goal.

Did you watch the game, or do you just go onto the stat column to create your own opinion of football?

[whatwhat say what 23,863]

To use one of these inane football terms, our 'frontal pressure' from about 15 mins in the first quarter to the 15 minute of the last quarter was superb.

 

We only went missing defensively in the first 15 and the last 5 minutes of the game.

[mo64 5,911]

14 hours ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

I just don't see the idea of not giving Frost a crack at the position and giving him a chance to develop

Because Frost is so ineffectual when we've got the ball and a deplorable kick for goal. Opposition teams will zone of him and double/triple team Hogan. Pedersen can hit the scoreboard so has to be manned up. I can't think of a key position forward with fewer strings to his bow than Frost.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

9 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Because Frost is so ineffectual when we've got the ball and a deplorable kick for goal. Opposition teams will zone of him and double/triple team Hogan. Pedersen can hit the scoreboard so has to be manned up. I can't think of a key position forward with fewer strings to his bow than Frost.

I honestly think he is much better than he is given credit for, but more so just finding his feet. Happy to have him, pedo, hogan in the forward line. His skills will improve, have not had a very large sample to look at. If they zone off him, he will be able to find space in much easier areas to kick goals. I personally think the experiment is worth while, especially whilst Max King is not yet up to it, give him 7-10 rounds to actually see if he shows something before completely removing it as an option in my opinion (and even that is probably a bit short).
Very worst, we have a key defender who we can slot back there as Dunn retires.

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

Would say Brayshaw is now in doubt,

 

Garland Dunn Jetta

Salem Mcdonald Lumumba

Vince Viney Kent

Kennedy Pederson Vandenberg

Garlett Hogan Watts

Gawn Jones Tyson

Bugg, Petracca, Harmes, Frost

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

It's funny how so much emphasis is placed on being ready for round 1.

It would be great if Brayshaw was fit, but if he doesn't play until round 2 and even 3 then it's hardly the end of the world. The way it is talked about it is like if a player misses round 1 then they are out for the entire season.

[CBDees 3,167]

4 hours ago, Peter Griffen said:

Would say Brayshaw is now in doubt,

 

Garland Dunn Jetta

Salem Mcdonald Lumumba

Vince Viney Kent

Kennedy Pederson Vandenberg

Garlett Hogan Watts

Gawn Jones Tyson

Bugg, Petracca, Harmes, Frost

Although I like your line-up, l would be surprised if Oliver doesn't get a guernsey for Round One. Not sure who to leave out though as, judging from training today, they all looked lively. I tend to agree that Petracca may be a surprise inclusion (particularly with two NAB Challenge matches and a VFL match scheduled before the start of the Season)!

Oliver is simply too talented to not consider. At training today, he was the last to leave the field as he remained slotting them through the middle whilst the others were heading back to AAMI.

Anyway it is a nice problem to have (an abundance of choice in the midfield)!

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

3 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It's funny how so much emphasis is placed on being ready for round 1.

It would be great if Brayshaw was fit, but if he doesn't play until round 2 and even 3 then it's hardly the end of the world. The way it is talked about it is like if a player misses round 1 then they are out for the entire season.

For what melbourne supporters have witnessed over the last near decade and for the current team of players, the coaches and the club in general, I think it's bleedingly obvious why there's such emphasis placed on the importance of having our best players available for the early rounds this year including round 1.

We need to win. And we need to start the season with a win. We have an opportunity to go 2 - 0 up against GWS and Essendon in rounds one and two and I dare say the confidence that our young team (who are salivating at the thought of success) will gain from two early wins going into a game against North Melbourne will be enormous. 

A side like us are so vulnerable to instability due to the ease at which we can lose and gain confidence after losses or wins. When was the last time we've won consecutive games?

All of these things have a psychological impression on players and a team that has had such a negative history.

The MFC need the fittest and healthiest list possible for round 1. More so than any other club because of where we've come from. 

Brayshaw is best 22. Any game he may miss early will hurt us.

 

 

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Agree with the comments on Garland. 

Did anyone else find his first NAB cup game underwhelming? How little composure can a bloke who's played 135 games have?!

*(Ducks for cover)*

 

 

 

But seriously....

Wagner and White. Would love to see them compete hard for that spot.

 

[Go the Biff 3,474]

16 hours ago, dee-luded said:

I don't understand why supporters keep on putting Viney in the Pivot?  to me, at least in the old ways, the more skilled inside type player like a Tyson or Brayshaw, would ususually get the pivot role?

 

There's no such thing as Pivot. Nor Centre. Nor ruck rover. Not any more. The game has moved on from the old team sheets you used to check in the milk bar window to see where you were picked

 

On the Frost forward or back thing....... Frosty gets a lot of love on here for a bloke who's effectively done nothing. All we've really seen him do is run fast. Briefly.

On Garland I noted he was one of few to give run out of the backline on the weekend. He offers a fair bit more than 3rd man up. On the other HBF I'm hoping White develops over the course of the year. I realise Salem is earmarked for that spot but eventually I'd like to see him further up the ground as I believe he can be very damaging forward of centre.

As to the question of how far ahead Jones & Grimes are of Billy Stretch, I'd say about a year. In Jones case he gives us run which we lack. Our spread has been dismal. Good signs on the weekend but we still need runners. Matty Jones is no Peter Matera on the wing and will continue to make skill errors & the occasional blundered decision but if he can fix his appalling tackling technique & stop giving away cheap frees, he brings value. Billy should staple himself to Jones at training until he can match him in tank, repeat running, speed, defensive running etc. Because in skills Stretch already has Matt well covered

Grimes on a wing is a wait and watch for mine. I also suspect wings will be rotated more on field this season with the interchange restrictions. Guys like Kent, Garlett & Kennedy will move up for short spells, rotating back through the forward line

[dee-luded 2,959]

3 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

There's no such thing as Pivot. Nor Centre. Nor ruck rover. Not any more. The game has moved on from the old team sheets you used to check in the milk bar window to see where you were picked

 

On the Frost forward or back thing....... Frosty gets a lot of love on here for a bloke who's effectively done nothing. All we've really seen him do is run fast. Briefly.

On Garland I noted he was one of few to give run out of the backline on the weekend. He offers a fair bit more than 3rd man up. On the other HBF I'm hoping White develops over the course of the year. I realise Salem is earmarked for that spot but eventually I'd like to see him further up the ground as I believe he can be very damaging forward of centre.

As to the question of how far ahead Jones & Grimes are of Billy Stretch, I'd say about a year. In Jones case he gives us run which we lack. Our spread has been dismal. Good signs on the weekend but we still need runners. Matty Jones is no Peter Matera on the wing and will continue to make skill errors & the occasional blundered decision but if he can fix his appalling tackling technique & stop giving away cheap frees, he brings value. Billy should staple himself to Jones at training until he can match him in tank, repeat running, speed, defensive running etc. Because in skills Stretch already has Matt well covered

Grimes on a wing is a wait and watch for mine. I also suspect wings will be rotated more on field this season with the interchange restrictions. Guys like Kent, Garlett & Kennedy will move up for short spells, rotating back through the forward line

I agree with all you said GtB.  #edit: ( I realise the pivot argument, but i still like to think this way so we can paint in a class centreline, although its more like the centreline plus 2 HBFlankers these days)

 

To me body size is given more weight,  under this current footy dept' . 

 

And I think its important,  so we well & truly lose the pushover tag we so well deserved in our past.  First thing is the ability to stand up to intimidation across the 18 onfield,  & then to stand up in tackles,  keep your feet,  & keep your composure.   The beginnings of leaving that little boy next door thing go by.  the beginnings of becoming AFL men,  instead of a boy band of 18.

 

.... we ought to aspire to be like the old bomber sides, the old hawk sides with the modern interpretations.  they always presented as Men, not boys.  We have always as a team, since the mid 90's,  appeared to my eyes as boys in demon jumpers.

.... and we've also played that way as well.

 

.

[Adam The God 30,743]

On 1/22/2016 at 9:07 PM, Wiseblood said:

You honestly think Hulett will play Round 1?  Seriously?

I want him to make it, but people are getting excited over nothing more than his size.  The kid hasn't even played in a NAB Cup match yet.  Let's just temper the expectations a touch here and let him do something before we go sticking him in a Round 1 side.

Bit like Kent really. 'Hey, he's fast, he's got a bit of mongrel'. FWIW, I agree with your above post too.

[Adam The God 30,743]

It'l be really interesting to see the Pedersen/Dawes et al situation unfold this year. I'd proffer that Goodwin will have a large say in who plays regularly.  Roos is clearly a fan of Dawes and in a way is also responsible for reinventing Pedersen, but my feeling is that if given the choice, Roos will go with Dawes. Add Goodwin into the mix and I wonder where they both sit? Perhaps, Goodwin will be keen to develop a youngster in their place (ie. The Weed)?

On 1/22/2016 at 9:29 AM, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I don't consider Garland a walk up start on last years form. I think TMac and Dunn fill two of the three spots for key defenders. Is Frost is not injured he is and Garland could be fighting it out during the preseason games for the one spot. 

Garland is another one who Roos clearly rates. And before last year, I loved him, but he's really struggled for a while now. His game against Port did nothing to inspire confidence either - he looked positively shaky and hesitant. I think we'll see Frost preferred at the back by the end of 2016. I think they'll give him a bit of a go up forward during the NAB stuff and then work him into the backline as the season progresses. We'll have really interesting competition for KPB spots then too, between Tommy Mac, Dunn, Garland and Frost. Can't see Oscar Mac troubling any of those this year, but who knows with injury lists.

On 1/22/2016 at 10:17 AM, Wiseblood said:

Frost will play forward IMO.  They see him, at the moment, as a second ruckman.

And Garland will play no matter what.  You might not consider him a walk up start, but the club well and truly does.  He plays.

This is a good point too. Frost certainly has the height and athleticism to play around the ground, but does he have the tank?

 

On 1/23/2016 at 5:44 PM, Goodvibes said:

B:               Jetta              Dunn                Garland

CHB:           Salem            McDonald          Bugg

C:               Stretch           Tyson               Vince

CHF:           Watts             Hogan               vandenBerg

FF:              Kent              Pedersen           Garlett

Foll:            Gawn             Jones                Viney

Int:             Brayshaw       Petracca            Neal-Bullen      Oliver

Emerg:        Grimes           Dawes              Kennedy

 

I'm not afraid to play the kids. The future is now. Petracca will be ready. Oliver probably won't play but I'd like to see him. Great to have Kent and Salem back. Bugg wasn't recruited to play at Casey and I'm not sure why there's all this talk about CHF. I'm more worried about who will play closer to goal. Like most, I'm off the Dawes and Lumumba wagon and would love to pick Grimes but can't quite justify it at this point. Trengove obviously a wait and see prospect. Don't really rate Frost forward but very positive about his ability to fill a key defensive post when there's a vacancy for him. Until then Dunn, McDonald and Garland have the runs on the board.
 

That is a bloody exciting side. I'd probably have Kennedy ahead of ANB at this stage, as he offers an ability to rotate through the middle at a higher capacity. ANB will hopefully get there, but he's not quite there yet, IMO.

[Adam The God 30,743]

On 2/2/2016 at 10:23 AM, Peter Griffen said:

The recruitment of Weiderman suggests to me that neither Dawes or Pederson are in the long term planning unless they significantly lift their game, as such i wouldn't be surprised to see Weiderman blooded fairly early on depending on form.

I'd agree, but he was probably also drafted because Dawes will be 28 this year and Pedersen 29. They've each got one to three years max. That's the perfect apprenticeship (at least in terms of time) for The Weed. I'd usually pick Pedersen ahead of Dawes, but this is where Dawes' leadership qualities, hard work and professionalism will teach Weiderman what it takes.

[dee-luded 2,959]

11 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

I'd agree, but he was probably also drafted because Dawes will be 28 this year and Pedersen 29. They've each got one to three years max. That's the perfect apprenticeship (at least in terms of time) for The Weed. I'd usually pick Pedersen ahead of Dawes, but this is where Dawes' leadership qualities, hard work and professionalism will teach Weiderman what it takes.

I think the club knows they aren't good enough,  once we push up past say 9th or 10th ladder position.  We will need other young tall forwards to come on in the next 18 months to progress beyond 7th spot.

[Adam The God 30,743]

On 2/21/2016 at 1:47 PM, ProDee said:

I've been surprised by Grimes playing an outside mid role and even more surprised that he's actually looked good.

He's just outside best 22 for me, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's selected round 1.

But I am sure he won't be playing half-back.  You don't train the entire summer in the midfield and then abandon that role for round one on a needs basis.  Hunt, White, and Wagner have all looked good across HBF.  And I reckon they'd even give Terlich a run there ahead of Grimes.

No way Terlich plays another game. He couldn't get a game last year even when we were in dire need of running defenders and rebound off half back. Just not going to happen. And thankfully. An absolute butcher.

Similarly, so is Grimes. Those are the two that would be shipped off first at the end of the year. It'd take something dramatic to see Grimes turn it around. He's disciplined, but his disposal isn't good enough for a run-with-tagger and from what I saw against Port, he still fails to make the right decision at the right time.

[Adam The God 30,743]

On 2/29/2016 at 10:05 AM, jnrmac said:

He does this a lot. Leaves his man but doesn't have the confidence to attack the footy. Consequently the ball spills free and his opponent (who he left) picks up the ball and runs away.

People credit Garland with being a much smarter footballer than he is. 5 yrs ago he was, then he went through a brain fade period and I just think he has lost whatever it was that he had. Yes I know he was high up in the B&F in 2014 but there is something about his game that leads me to believe he will get passed quickly this year.

Yeah, Col is a confidence player who hasn't been able to recapture the spark he once had. I still put it down to those years under Neeld that finally broke the camels back, so to speak. I expected him to look more confident against the Power having re-signed, but he still looks a lost cause. It's sad, because he seems like he really likes the club and he's a loyal sort of bloke. 

And to say he gels with the others, I'm not so sure about that. He looks lost at times these days, paralysed by his fear of making a mistake. We'll see him surpassed this year I reckon.

But I wouldn't call it a myth that Garland can lock down small forwards. I've seen him do it. I recall a game against Hawthorn three or four years ago (I know, I know) where he shut down Rioli. We got within 12 points (?) that day. The same year he played on Buddy. He was a good prospective, but by 2017 he'll be a B plan. Which is fine.

[thevil1 421]

10 hours ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

So the only way to create pressure is to have a tackle? Watch the highlight of Ben Kennedys goal to understand my point, Frost indirectly causes the turnover by pushing up to create pressure on Robbie Grey with the direct result being a goal. Does he lay a tackle, no, but Robbie Grey had no space and handballed it back to Impey who was immediately under pressure then tackled resulting in a turn over and a goal.

Did you watch the game, or do you just go onto the stat column to create your own opinion of football?

No I watched it & watched the replay unlike your mate who thinks your observations are interesting without seeing diddly squat. I've since seen the pressure act you mentioned & it still doesn't outdo what Pedo did on the weekend, not by a long shot. 

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

5 minutes ago, thevil1 said:

No I watched it & watched the replay unlike your mate who thinks your observations are interesting without seeing diddly squat. I've since seen the pressure act you mentioned & it still doesn't outdo what Pedo did on the weekend, not by a long shot. 

But when did I say that? All I stated was his benefit is those pressure acts. 

Admittedly I think Pedo is vastly over rated by most on here, but I said the forward structure needs three talls Hogan, Frost, Pedo whilst Dawes is injured is the way to go? 

 

Edit: you have not even refuted the observations which I was making describing a zone set further up the field and attempts to cause the earlier turn over and thus I see more value in frost playing up there.