On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 10:10 PM, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Diamond Joe hey?
I always felt that in some ways that he was forced out by the old school tie network. This was evidenced by the fact that Ron Walker was supposed to be his successor before Joe called out the would be Brutus' in the board's ranks. In some ways, he contributed to his downfall with his crash through or crash style of leadership. 
If Joe had taken Brian Dixon with him then he would have had a chance for greater longevity in my mind. He might have been able to educate him on how to survive the bear pit of MFC politics. From memory however, the board that Joe had to accept as part of the peace deal wanted no part of Dixon and Joe acquiesced to their wishes  with barely a word of protest.

Robert Flower. I know of a lot of people who had no intention of voting against Gutnick until those opposed dragged Flower's name into the mix. Those people were of the belief that Flower would be on the new board, and would not vote against him.

47 minutes ago, stuie said:

Errrrrr..... He was the President of the club mate. Not saying he was solely responsible, obviously, but he was in charge of the whole place at the time, so probably deserves a little credit hey?

Also, your comment about him "not bothering" to attend the game shows you have no actual idea what you're talking about in regards to Gutnick.

 

Yes he does.. But while off field we were still a mess and the jungle drums were continuing to beat, it was Neale Daniher who held the playing group together and made the sure the politics side of things didn't interfere with his men. 

The 'not bothering' comment is maybe a tad harsh but not unable to attend a Grand Final due to 'Rabbi' for one of the oldest clubs in AFL history in the biggest sport in Australia was unfortunately  not a good look at all.

 

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

Yes he does.. But while off field we were still a mess and the jungle drums were continuing to beat, it was Neale Daniher who held the playing group together and made the sure the politics side of things didn't interfere with his men. 

The 'not bothering' comment is maybe a tad harsh but not unable to attend a Grand Final due to 'Rabbi' for one of the oldest clubs in AFL history in the biggest sport in Australia was unfortunately  not a good look at all.

 

I had a little bit to do with that era through work, and the Rev was undeniably the driving force of the entire club around then. People who have no idea how it was internally moan about the culture, but you would never find a tighter group of players who were mates and who would bleed for their coach.

I assume you mean "Sabbath" when talking about Joe missing the Grand Final. Pretty lame to have a crack at him for being held to his strict religious beliefs, but just so you know, he actually made a big plea to his father, who was the leading rabbi in Victoria, to be able to attend the game but was turned down. You may think it's not a "good look" but I think it shows the kind of person he is to put his beliefs before sport, the only thing that's not a "good look" is having a crack at him for that.

 

3 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Didn't he tip in a couple of mill of his own money? 

Not a great President, but was there when we needed him, committed to the red and blue, and no worse than most presidents we've had.

Why the desire to bring him down? 

BTW, who was the President who sacked Norm Smith and started "the curse"? 

Dr. Don Duffy was president as I recall.

3 hours ago, Crompton's the man said:

It was five and no one could be sure MFC would still exist without that contribution.

 

Like Brian Dixon, it would be good to see him included in the family once again ( never said he was perfect neither - I've read some of the court judgement summaries)

No it wasn't it was supposed to be $3m but he only tipped in $2.75m

28 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

No it wasn't it was supposed to be $3m but he only tipped in $2.75m

Hahaha "he only tipped in $2.75m."!

You're a <someone who throws things...>

Feel free to name those other MFC President(s) who have contributed more cash?

Edited December 28, 20159 yr by PaulRB

13 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Hahaha "he only tipped in $2.75m."!

You're a <someone who throws things...>

Feel free to name those other MFC President(s) who have contributed more cash?

We would have been better without the cash and the huge disruption he caused to our club.

19 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We would have been better without the cash and the huge disruption he caused to our club.

Do you think we'd "...have been better without the cash and the huge disruption..." because those previous Presidents that lead us into the position of wanting to merge (wiki refered to this period as the "decades of disappointment") did better? or because the disruption included the appointment of Daniher who led us to our first GF appearance in a decade?  

Our club had just given up and agreed to merger, which was defeated by Hawks...  It was then thrown to Gutnick to lead, he lead the fund raising with his own cash, appointed Neale Daniher, had us believe in the red and blue again, ...

From Wiki- history - "In the aftermath of the merger meetings, Ridley focused on a compromise with the Demons Alternative to ensure that Melbourne could continue as a viable business. His board co-opted Gutnick and Mark Jenkins onto the board and a truce of sorts was struck between all parties. In the months following the 1996 merger vote, the businessman and Joseph Gutnick became president. He put $3 million of his own money into the club, and sacked Balme as coach midway through the 1997 season. In 1998, under new coach Neale Daniher, the club spent most of the season in the top eight and beat the eventual premiers Adelaide in the Qualifying Final. Melbourne also eliminated St Kilda, but lost to North Melbourne in the Preliminary Final. In 1999 Melbourne finished in the bottom three.

In 2000 Daniher took Melbourne to the Grand Final, but the Demons were convincingly beaten by a rampaging Essendon. The members had expected a new era of success, but in 2001 it was same old story: Melbourne finished 11th. In 2002, although Melbourne again made the finals, Gutnick was voted out by the members."

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

No it wasn't it was supposed to be $3m but he only tipped in $2.75m

You can't give any credit for the biggest single donation by any individual to any club.

He had his faults but he tried and put his money where his mouth was, stood up to the AFL and presided over a GF in 2000. 

Not totally hopeless compared to others I would have thought. 

Edited December 28, 20159 yr by Redleg

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

We would have been better without the cash and the huge disruption he caused to our club.

Yeah how dare he disrupt our merger and years of failure with a Grand Final...

I miss those days at the cricketer arms then March off to,the G to hand out a flogging, Daniher and Northery what great coaches as for Gutnik he's the best president Iv seen in my time he took the club to a GF and from were I'm sitting it could be years before that happens again.

10 hours ago, stuie said:

Right, so he can be blamed for ruining the culture of the players but not for the success of the players...?

Demonland logic at it's finest.

 

Stuie logic at its lamest.

Joe the President "in charge of the whole place" oversaw major SC breaches then dobbed us in off his own bat. The guy clearly did some major damage to the club by his own actions without consultation. As for player success, that could be attributed to the players and coaches I would have thought. Apart from tipping in money that helped the club survive (which of course is important), he did very little to get us to the GF

43 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Stuie logic at its lamest.

Joe the President "in charge of the whole place" oversaw major SC breaches then dobbed us in off his own bat. The guy clearly did some major damage to the club by his own actions without consultation. As for player success, that could be attributed to the players and coaches I would have thought. Apart from tipping in money that helped the club survive (which of course is important), he did very little to get us to the GF

Ohhhhhh ok, now I see your logic, as the president he was only responsible for the bad things... Thanks for filling me in WYL.

 

Just now, stuie said:

Ohhhhhh ok, now I see your logic, as the president he was only responsible for the bad things... Thanks for filling me in WYL.

 

You are a classic at putting words into the mouths of others Stuie. Nothing is more certain in life.

Glad the club seems to be finally in a period of stability both in the football department and at the administration / board level since PJ's arrival.  Can't think of the last time we both club stability plus a promising young list building. Hopefully some bright years ahead... 

20 minutes ago, stuie said:

Ohhhhhh ok, now I see your logic, as the president he was only responsible for the bad things... Thanks for filling me in WYL.

 

Watch yourself Sunshine

not impressed...

16 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

You are a classic at putting words into the mouths of others Stuie. Nothing is more certain in life.

You just blamed him for all the bad things and gave him 0 credit for the good things. Not sure how that's putting "words in your mouth" for me to then say that's what you did. It's actually factual.

 

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Watch yourself Sunshine

not impressed...

Lol, wut? After some of what you dish out here you get offended by that? Amazing.

Just now, stuie said:

You just blamed him for all the bad things and gave him 0 credit for the good things. Not sure how that's putting "words in your mouth" for me to then say that's what you did. It's actually factual.

 

You make shlt up Stuie, then add a heap of hyperbole into the mix and claim it as fact! Lol!

"All the bad things"??? "0 credit"??? Too funny...

 

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

Lol, wut? After some of what you dish out here you get offended by that? Amazing.

Yes you offend me Stuie Correct

DO NOT put words in my mouth concerning a topic i have not commented on. 

 

Not winning any friends or arguments here Stuie. Groundhog Day.

Edited December 28, 20159 yr by Moonshadow
Spelling

3 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Stuie logic at its lamest.

Joe the President "in charge of the whole place" oversaw major SC breaches then dobbed us in off his own bat. The guy clearly did some major damage to the club by his own actions without consultation. As for player success, that could be attributed to the players and coaches I would have thought. Apart from tipping in money that helped the club survive (which of course is important), he did very little to get us to the GF

Having the integrity to clean up dirty corrupt practices in the MFC should be applauded EVERY time. Take a look the the EFC to see where a lack of Integrity and a disregard for the competitions rules leads.

Why should he consult with those in the club whom were quite likely approving or tacitly allowing these practices to go on?

Given the club has been borderline bankrupt for several decades, tipping his own (substantial) monies in should NOT be downplayed.

And he appointed the coach who took us to the GF, which is as much as any good president could hope to do, and more than most presidents of the MFC have done, in this regard.

 

Edited December 28, 20159 yr by PaulRB

7 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Having the integrity to clean up dirty corrupt practices in the MFC should be applauded EVERY time. Take a look the the EFC to see where a lack of Integrity and a disregard for the competitions rules leads.

Why should he consult with those in the club whom were quite likely approving or tacitly allowing these practices to go on?

Given the club has been borderline bankrupt for several decades, tipping his own (substantial) monies in should NOT be downplayed.

And he appointed the coach who took us to the GF, which is as much as any good president could hope to do, and more than most presidents of the MFC have done, in this regard.

 

So Joe did no wrong and is the real reason we got to the GF. Got it, thanks.

Playing the nice guys of the AFL will not win us a flag, but comparing us then to Essendon now got me laughing!!! 

Joe's money was important, as I mentioned, but the guy oversaw major damage to the club. As president, he should have consulted. That's what good leaders do.

 

19 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

...

Joe's money was important, as I mentioned, but the guy oversaw major damage to the club. As president, he should have consulted. That's what good leaders do.

 

No point in consulting the guilty parties as to whether they should be exposed or not. I think we could guess their response. The only question is was it right to expose the guilt. Many of us think Essendon would have saved both themselves and the game  a lot of pain if they had done so.

20 minutes ago, sue said:

No point in consulting the guilty parties as to whether they should be exposed or not. I think we could guess their response. The only question is was it right to expose the guilt. Many of us think Essendon would have saved both themselves and the game  a lot of pain if they had done so.

Was Joe not part of the guilty party? Or did he expose it as soon as he arrived? I'm not sure of the timing.

Edit: He came in after the failed merger in '96 and dobbed us in around March '99.

Edited December 28, 20159 yr by Moonshadow