On 16/09/2015 at 04:53, Sir Why You Little said:

not if 30-40,000 interstate visitors roll in it won't be

  On 17/09/2015 at 03:57, stuie said:

Problem being, it's not a holiday in other states...

  On 17/09/2015 at 04:07, Sir Why You Little said:

that is not a concern of Victoria

Hotel Reservations in the CBD will be made

Riiiiiiiiight.......

  On 17/09/2015 at 04:11, stuie said:

Riiiiiiiiight.......

You think people won't come to an ALL WA GF because they are working on a friday?

Right.

  On 17/09/2015 at 04:22, Sir Why You Little said:

You think people won't come to an ALL WA GF because they are working on a friday?

Right.

Exactly. So why would the holiday make any difference?

Right.

Won't somebody just think of the small businesses!!

Effects of a public holiday -

Winners

* Businesses which do not pay penalty rates (ie. employ cash-in-hand, exploit international students, backpackers, etc) get a windfall by charging holiday surcharges and pocketing it, or simply by being able to get more work done compared to legal operators.

* Businesses which specifically target holiday/weekend trade anyway. Aunty's Coalview La Trobe Valley B&B, Melbourne Zoo, and the like will get an extra day of good trade.

People on an annual fixed salary, who get an extra day off but paid the same amount.

Losers

Businesses which do pay the legally required penalty rates, or which do not target weekend/holiday trade. Or both, of course. Construction, non-holiday hospitality, and so on. They'll either lose competitive position against the dodgy operators, or simply lose income, or both.

Casual workers who lose shifts. Ranging from hospitality to childcare to construction to cleaning and even some health services. A lot of people in these jobs are on tight margins and missing $120 worth of shifts in a week is a frick'n disaster.

So, given the distribution of benefits and impositions, the fact that the benefits go to people who either will barely notice it or should be arrested anyway, while the costs are borne by the more honest businesses or the honest working poor (ye olde 'battlers'), it is simply not debatable that public holidays are a bad thing for Australia.

It is fine to argue 'I like them' or 'I think they are nice'. But you can't say 'they are a good thing'.

  On 17/09/2015 at 05:19, Little Goffy said:

Effects of a public holiday -

Winners

* Businesses which do not pay penalty rates (ie. employ cash-in-hand, exploit international students, backpackers, etc) get a windfall by charging holiday surcharges and pocketing it, or simply by being able to get more work done compared to legal operators.

* Businesses which specifically target holiday/weekend trade anyway. Aunty's Coalview La Trobe Valley B&B, Melbourne Zoo, and the like will get an extra day of good trade.

People on an annual fixed salary, who get an extra day off but paid the same amount.

Losers

Businesses which do pay the legally required penalty rates, or which do not target weekend/holiday trade. Or both, of course. Construction, non-holiday hospitality, and so on. They'll either lose competitive position against the dodgy operators, or simply lose income, or both.

Casual workers who lose shifts. Ranging from hospitality to childcare to construction to cleaning and even some health services. A lot of people in these jobs are on tight margins and missing $120 worth of shifts in a week is a frick'n disaster.

So, given the distribution of benefits and impositions, the fact that the benefits go to people who either will barely notice it or should be arrested anyway, while the costs are borne by the more honest businesses or the honest working poor (ye olde 'battlers'), it is simply not debatable that public holidays are a bad thing for Australia.

It is fine to argue 'I like them' or 'I think they are nice'. But you can't say 'they are a good thing'.

Add to your list of benefits:

Casual workers who get extra shifts because the full/part timers get the day off

Kids/parents/families who potentially get another day together.

Businesses who will benefit from increased staff production given an extra mental break.

Your premise that the benefits go to people who don't need it or who are cross is false. It is just as easily argued that those put our most are the companies that run the businesss and make all the profits while all workers get paid a standard wage and therefore all workers who get extra time off are the winners (i.e. the massive majority of individuals).

  On 17/09/2015 at 04:33, stuie said:

Exactly. So why would the holiday make any difference?

Right.

because if i am sitting in my office at work i cannot spend cash

Right.

  On 17/09/2015 at 05:52, deanox said:

Add to your list of benefits:

Casual workers who get extra shifts because the full/part timers get the day off

Kids/parents/families who potentially get another day together.

Businesses who will benefit from increased staff production given an extra mental break.

Your premise that the benefits go to people who don't need it or who are cross is false. It is just as easily argued that those put our most are the companies that run the businesss and make all the profits while all workers get paid a standard wage and therefore all workers who get extra time off are the winners (i.e. the massive majority of individuals).

Maybe you have never run a business, but employers are not going to give their regular workforce the day off and then employ casual workers at a massively higher rate. Most Clubs (and many cafe/restaurants) for a start simply won't open their doors depriving their members/clients of their normal recreation outlets. But, of course, we can all go and watch the Parade and avail ourselves of the mobile junk food vans who will park along the route!

Maybe we should all work four day weeks if the mental breaks increased productivity? I don't know where you extract your theories from but I have an idea!

If taken purely economically, then public holidays are bad.

Fortunately we are more than just a giant economy. We are a society! There is a need to "sharpen the saw" and some may simply need to recharge their batteries.

We could go around in circles forever on "public holidays good/bad", but this particular holiday seems destined to miss the mark on the very thing it was created for: to celebrate the AFL grand final. A parade seen by no-one while the rest of the state either put their feet up or shut the doors for a day.

It's hard to see it acclaimed as a winner (except by our leaders who are always prepared to eat a sh*t sandwich as a normal part of their duties). The only thing that can save it is a big crowd attending the parade, and ...... didn't we get that in past years anyway???

"Dan's Folly. First Friday in October."

  On 17/09/2015 at 01:17, iv said:

So as I said earlier, if the argument is about penalty rates in general, then let's have that debate, but to suggest one day is going to nobble the economy does not stand up to scrutiny by any measure. Like I said, if you are going to have this debate, let's be even handed about it. Why not flick the anachronistic Queen's Birthday and quaint Melbourne Cup holidays. What do these cost employers?

They have been around for dozens of years. Irrelevant to the argument.

We are talking about an additional un-requested holiday that is a sop to the unions for get Daniel Andrews elected.

Nice to try and divert the argument. As I have said before the holiday will cost me and every other business owner in the CBD that I have spoken to. That will come out of any money I have to expand the business and employ more people. By shutting down it will cost me less and I will not have to pay my staff penalty rates.

The 100k plus people that line the route of the GF parade will be lucky to be 25k. Over the 1.5k route that wil be pretty sparse and a waste of time.

  On 17/09/2015 at 06:18, jnrmac said:

They have been around for dozens of years. Irrelevant to the argument.

We are talking about an additional un-requested holiday that is a sop to the unions for get Daniel Andrews elected.

Nice to try and divert the argument. As I have said before the holiday will cost me and every other business owner in the CBD that I have spoken to. That will come out of any money I have to expand the business and employ more people. By shutting down it will cost me less and I will not have to pay my staff penalty rates.

The 100k plus people that line the route of the GF parade will be lucky to be 25k. Over the 1.5k route that wil be pretty sparse and a waste of time.

Does not divert the argument at all. We have anachronistic public holidays in any event. The argument is not about whether to have this holiday, but rather penalty rates in general. My core business is in the hospitality space and I can promise you none of my clients will be closing on the grand final holiday.

Whether anyone likes the public holiday or not (and whether they like labor or not - personally I don't like the union driven politics but that doesn't matter here), the current Daniel Andrews led government is one of the few governments we've had recently that has followed through on its promises (rightly or wrongly) after an election. They are actually doing what they said they'd do. It makes for a nice change.

  On 17/09/2015 at 06:01, Sir Why You Little said:

because if i am sitting in my office at work i cannot spend cash

Right.

What has that got to do with interstate visitors who don't have the day off? Nothing.

  On 17/09/2015 at 06:08, CBDees said:

Maybe you have never run a business, but employers are not going to give their regular workforce the day off and then employ casual workers at a massively higher rate. Most Clubs (and many cafe/restaurants) for a start simply won't open their doors depriving their members/clients of their normal recreation outlets. But, of course, we can all go and watch the Parade and avail ourselves of the mobile junk food vans who will park along the route!

Maybe we should all work four day weeks if the mental breaks increased productivity? I don't know where you extract your theories from but I have an idea!

This is a BS argument and the sarcastic jibes about 4 day weeks prove that you can't extract your head and consider a view other than your strongly held view which is possibly relevant to your particular circumstance but not necessarily relevant to all across the state.

In all casual positions I've ever held (particularly in hospo) public holidays are the times when you get extra shifts. Employers don't get to choose of full time staff get the Friday off or not and if they need staff they will engage casuals. But anecdotes from my or your side mean SFA when discussing the merits of the holiday.

I know not all businesses will open and I know this will cost some businesses money (especially consulting firms such as mine which have no way of recouping this money) but many hospo and tourism based businesses will open and will make more money than usual due to increased trade.

And any smartly run business will factor this into prices when doing budget and business planning. Yep at short notice this might be difficult this year but it won't make a difference next year.

Double pay for a single day increases your total annual staff cost by 0.38% (based on 260 working days for the year).

0.38% !

If staff costs are 70% of your business cost then your overall business cost increase is 0.27%!!!!!!!

That's less than 1c on a coffee worth $3.

To anyone complaining about this, stop whinging and run your business better. If you can't accommodate this your business model is wrong.

  On 17/09/2015 at 07:00, stuie said:

What has that got to do with interstate visitors who don't have the day off? Nothing.

why do interstate viewers who are not trekking across need a holiday on friday..??

  On 17/09/2015 at 07:56, Sir Why You Little said:

why do interstate viewers who are not trekking across need a holiday on friday..??

Interstate viewers who are trekking across will come any day they please, public holiday or not. They will spend their money in the city on that Friday, public holiday or not.

  On 16/09/2015 at 04:53, Sir Why You Little said:

not if 30-40,000 interstate visitors roll in it won't be

  On 17/09/2015 at 03:57, stuie said:

Problem being, it's not a holiday in other states...

  On 17/09/2015 at 04:07, Sir Why You Little said:

that is not a concern of Victoria

Hotel Reservations in the CBD will be made

  On 17/09/2015 at 04:22, Sir Why You Little said:

You think people won't come to an ALL WA GF because they are working on a friday?

Right.

  On 17/09/2015 at 04:33, stuie said:

Exactly. So why would the holiday make any difference?

Right.

  On 17/09/2015 at 06:01, Sir Why You Little said:

because if i am sitting in my office at work i cannot spend cash

Right.

  On 17/09/2015 at 07:00, stuie said:

What has that got to do with interstate visitors who don't have the day off? Nothing.

  On 17/09/2015 at 07:56, Sir Why You Little said:

why do interstate viewers who are not trekking across need a holiday on friday..??

I thought maybe you would understand how ridiculous you're being if you actually read these posts again.

FMD.

  On 17/09/2015 at 08:37, stuie said:

I thought maybe you would understand how ridiculous you're being if you actually read these posts again.

FMD.

No...i do not see what your problem is....We have 1,000's of interstate visitors filling our

City Hotels for a long weekend....We have Millions of Victorians with a day off....A long weekend...to spend $$$ however they please..and not be stuck at work for 8-12 hours

So $$$ is spent in the suburbs...in the inner city and some in the CBD FOR ONE DAY....

Good...Spread it round...Interstaters & Big V's all out spending in Victoria...Cool.

and no Stuie i don't need to re read what i have written thankyou.

imagine living in the same house as Stuie....every second would be highlighted and challenged..

I am sure that this well-thought-out holiday will be a success, leading Daniel Andrews to declaring another State Holiday before the forthcoming World Cage-Fighting Event, another Labor election promise.

  On 17/09/2015 at 16:46, CBDees said:

I am sure that this well-thought-out holiday will be a success, leading Daniel Andrews to declaring another State Holiday before the forthcoming World Cage-Fighting Event, another Labor election promise.

Another promise he has kept.

Are you saying that you don't think UFC should be allowed?

  On 17/09/2015 at 16:46, CBDees said:

I am sure that this well-thought-out holiday will be a success, leading Daniel Andrews to declaring another State Holiday before the forthcoming World Cage-Fighting Event, another Labor election promise.

Yep bring back Ted ....................... Ahhh .............. who?

  On 17/09/2015 at 06:18, jnrmac said:

They have been around for dozens of years. Irrelevant to the argument.

We are talking about an additional un-requested holiday that is a sop to the unions for get Daniel Andrews elected.

Nice to try and divert the argument. As I have said before the holiday will cost me and every other business owner in the CBD that I have spoken to. That will come out of any money I have to expand the business and employ more people. By shutting down it will cost me less and I will not have to pay my staff penalty rates.

The 100k plus people that line the route of the GF parade will be lucky to be 25k. Over the 1.5k route that wil be pretty sparse and a waste of time.

Maybe it will balance your books with the non public holiday we received for ANZAC day this year.

Along with the 50k interstate supporters that will fill the CBD on the Friday i will be taking my kids along to view the parade which i otherwise wouldn't have been able to. I'll have my wallet open spending up.

  On 17/09/2015 at 21:41, deanox said:

Another promise he has kept.

Are you saying that you don't think UFC should be allowed?

No I am saying that just because Daniel Andrews has made an election promise targeted at Labor electorates doesn't mean that it makes it a good idea or worthy of implementation!

  On 18/09/2015 at 01:38, CBDees said:

No I am saying that just because Daniel Andrews has made an election promise targeted at Labor electorates doesn't mean that it makes it a good idea or worthy of implementation!

I agree it may not be a good idea but if a politician makes a promise I reckon it is worthy of implementation.

That being said, foxing the level crossings will benefit both labor and liberal electorates which is a good thing. Despite our ex-PMs views public transport is actual a bipartisan effort that benefits all so good to see it going ahead.

  On 16/09/2015 at 14:07, CBDees said:

The Grand Final holiday and the Easter Sunday holiday combo is one of the most costly imposts on businesses since Federation. A disaster for the hospitality industry, the construction industry and most small businesses. A Grand Final Parade to the MCG instead of down Swanston Street, empty of office workers, will be a farce. But there is one guarantee and that there will be no CFMEU members watching it as they enjoy their four day weekend culminating in a Monday RDO. Maybe the West Australians will extend their visit to Melbourne by a day to watch the Parade but somehow I doubt it!

I remember when Freo were in it 2 years ago there were already several Freo fans around Fed square on Tuesday of that week. And I also went to the parade and it seemed to be about 80% Freo fans who were going wild. With an equally loud Eagles base there too the parade will probably be bigger than usual