Is this the solution?

So frustrating and sad.

So glad I'm out of the country.

Who's left playing today?

I agree to an extent. Anyone playing that day particularly anyone on the leadership group should go.

Watch Frawley from 4:53. He is in the damn leadership group. He's in second gear! Watch him make a non-spoil attempt on the shot at goal.

Watch at 5:19 - Frawley kicks to McDonald, who has an open player timidly calling for the ball. He COMPLETELY ignores him, goes back to Frawley, the ball is fumbled, and watch Frawley just do...nothing.

We always focus on the likes of Tapscott, McKenzie, Evans. These guys don't let us down: we know what we're getting with them. The blokes that "bleed red and blue" are bonafide LOSERS.

And that includes Nate Jones.

They must all go. Build around Tyson, Salem, Toumpas, Hogan, Viney.

I agree to an extent. Anyone playing that day particularly anyone on the leadership group should go.

Watch Frawley from 4:53. He is in the damn leadership group. He's in second gear! Watch him make a non-spoil attempt on the shot at goal.

Watch at 5:19 - Frawley kicks to McDonald, who has an open player timidly calling for the ball. He COMPLETELY ignores him, goes back to Frawley, the ball is fumbled, and watch Frawley just do...nothing.

We always focus on the likes of Tapscott, McKenzie, Evans. These guys don't let us down: we know what we're getting with them. The blokes that "bleed red and blue" are bonafide LOSERS.

And that includes Nate Jones.

They must all go. Build around Tyson, Salem, Toumpas, Hogan, Viney.

Yeah just watched those highlights and it seems to me that Frawley is one of the ones that has put the Que in the rack. He is gone 99.9999999% sure after watching that.

Gold coast bound is my tip!!

Unfortuneately the rest are "damaged goods", all of them.

It is going to take alot of courage to trade them all out, it may take two or three years, the sooner the better while they still have some worth.

So damn sad, I've been following this club for 50 years, never seen it this bad, not even in the late 60's, 70's and early 80's

1. A touch melodramatic, methinks. 2. Most of them kind of already are, or will be by November. 3. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to their mental state this many years later.

1. A touch melodramatic, methinks. 2. Most of them kind of already are, or will be by November. 3. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to their mental state this many years later.

I respect your opinion but I disagree that "It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to their mental state this many years later"

Its that mental state that is the issue. Most if not all of theses guys came through the ranks just like most other club recruits, they just don't loose their ablility they loose their confidence to such a degree where its unable to be regained if they stay at the Dees.

I might be a "win/win" if they left.

Is this the solution?

So frustrating and sad.

So glad I'm out of the country.

Who's left playing today?

Do you think Roos may have another playing season in him as he clearly would be our best player?

It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to their mental state this many years later.

Very naive. How can you not see a connection between how a club that was finals bound hit the bottom of the barrel so quickly? It's not like we were a bad team pre-186: we were thrashing teams by 100 points! We were well on the way. It's clear that there were issues there, and many of the experienced players from that day are now in the team's leadership group.

If the current leadership group isn't empowering and leading those around them, what hope do the likes of Tyson, Viney, Hogan, anyone else that needs some guidance, have in evolving into winners? Look at what has happened to Jones: I love the bloke but he is a loser. He walks off the field looking down at the ground. He doesn't know how to win. He doesn't know what it takes to be a leader in a winning team.

That is the club's problem: there are still too many experienced losers within the playing group. They all need to go. The hard decisions have been made sparingly. Another rebuild must start now.

How telling is it that Daniel Cross, who has been at the club for two seconds, is more of an on-field leader than others that have been there 5, 6, 7, 8 years? How can someone come straight into the club and automatically gain that role?

It's quite astonishing, and difficult to believe, I admit, but the most experienced players that have been at the club long-term are undoubtedly part of the problem. It's time to move on.

have said this since it actually ocurred

There are still some on the committee that should go and while I'm at it, it's time for the prez to get out from behind the glass and mix with the fans. He now needs to be visible, not talking rubbish to the media but getting amongst the members and supporters.

That's laughable, who is the President? an AFL appointee, small time business man from W.A trying to spread into Victoria, open up a store in Collins street to [censored] jumpers, overheads of about 300k p.a?, amalgamate with Melbourne University in our heartland, not to worry about logistics or facilities, those gems aside I can't recall the opportunity to cast a vote, even after owning a handful of memberships.

have said this since it actually ocurred

Before I opened the thread I was expecting the initial post to be yours, WYL.

Before I opened the thread I was expecting the initial post to be yours, WYL.

Hahaha. It is becoming more relevent.

The damage still exists. Even if it is only a small pocket.

The President although "invisible" is new and is not part of those dark days. Its better that he is silent, Peter Jackson should be the one to express the committees views. Paul Roos is the front man at the moment and so he should be, can you imagine what the media would do if someone other than Paul Roos was fronting the media?

I do agree that any members of the old committee that still occupy a position should vacate asap.

Players that are still playing include Frawley, Watts, Jones, Garland, Dunne, Trengrove, Grimes, Blease, Jarma, Bail, Fitzspatrick, Gawn, Tom McDonald, Stuass, Spencer,Tapscott and Jetta. Of these players who will be part of the problem not all played much in 2011 and some were in their rookie year.

Bare in mind that Bailey said after the 186 game "My responsibility is going to be getting these players back together again, gelling them again and getting them united again to confront an opposition next week" was he saying that there was disunity in that list?

I went back and looked at the match stats.

Mistake.

Worse thing it reminded me of was that Jordie McKenzie was the outstanding player who kept going.

What happened to the tackling machine? Lots of them and often effective.

Hell, in 2011/2012 he was even getting a good number of disposals going. A serious contributor who never dropped his head.

Club-first guy who stayed on the rookie list an extra year so we could use an earlier draft pick.

Now, he really looks about to drop off the AFL cliff.

The President although "invisible" is new and is not part of those dark days. Its better that he is silent, Peter Jackson should be the one to express the committees views. Paul Roos is the front man at the moment and so he should be, can you imagine what the media would do if someone other than Paul Roos was fronting the media?

I do agree that any members of the old committee that still occupy a position should vacate asap.

Players that are still playing include Frawley, Watts, Jones, Garland, Dunne, Trengrove, Grimes, Blease, Jarma, Bail, Fitzspatrick, Gawn, Tom McDonald, Stuass, Spencer,Tapscott and Jetta. Of these players who will be part of the problem not all played much in 2011 and some were in their rookie year.

Bare in mind that Bailey said after the 186 game "My responsibility is going to be getting these players back together again, gelling them again and getting them united again to confront an opposition next week" was he saying that there was disunity in that list?

I don't want him in the media but he needs to get out amongst the fans and I don't for a minute think that it is the answer to our problems. But on all levels the club must engage more and start to put in a lot harder.

It's a thing I noticed during pre season training. At one session he was talking to a group for a little while then went into the roped off players area, at other sessions he was in that area with other committeemen and staff. I remember when Stuart Spencer was president he was out amongst the supporters at junction oval all the time, talking, listening putting up with my mate talking the same old garbage but he was engaged.

When Hawthorn were on their knees Ian Dicker was the same, out in amongst it engaging with the fans. This is what I would like to see from our President, quietly going about his business but being engaged with the supporter group not liniment sniffing with the players and other hangers on. I don't need him to be Eddie 'photo op' man of the people when a camera is around' McGuire. He has to be legit, if he can't do it then he's the wrong man for the job.

Committee members from the past regime must move on now.

This is the problem with Melbourne - when we try to get ruthless we do it with the wrong blokes like Jnr and then hold on to players like Sylvia and Johnstone for far too long (dare I say it a few now) and players on past glories.

Frawley has been ordinary for two seasons for mine and any other club would have traded him already when he had currency.

This is the problem with Melbourne - when we try to get ruthless we do it with the wrong blokes like Jnr and then hold on to players like Sylvia and Johnstone for far too long (dare I say it a few now) and players on past glories.

Frawley has been ordinary for two seasons for mine and any other club would have traded him already when he had currency.

I would love to hang on to Frawley, the big question is does he want to stay?

All indications are that his management has already got an agreement in place.

An agreement that was similar in a time scence to Scully's, that is, negotiations were started last season.

I hope I'm wrong because he is a book end in the team and they don't grow on trees.

That's why all the top teams are showing a strong interest.

Hahaha. It is becoming more relevent.

The damage still exists. Even if it is only a small pocket.

Even a small pocket will let all your money out if it has a hole in it. Confucius say.