Less fitness, a bucket load more speed and weights training so he stops crapping himself - by that I mean not backing himself to run, break tackles or draw contact and use the ball under pressure.

Has actually improved a fair bit as a stopping defender but we can use Jetta and Garland in those roles. We need skill from half back. Terlich and Grimes don't provide it right now.

Maybe he needs time in the VFL refining his ball use and ability to wisely take on the game at times and not at others. If Cross retires he could play midfield but I really don't like him as a midfielder.

He's not horrendous but he's playing like a guy who wouldn't get near a game in a top 8 team. With Clisby injured I don't know who at Casey is up to taking his spot.

Master theres no way Grimes can play in the middle. everythhing hes criticised for makes him a liability in the middle. Hes just not a competitive on baller. We need to give him time to work through his issues but by next year hes going to have blokes snapping at his heels if he cant improve

Master theres no way Grimes can play in the middle. everythhing hes criticised for makes him a liability in the middle. Hes just not a competitive on baller. We need to give him time to work through his issues but by next year hes going to have blokes snapping at his heels if he cant improve

Yeah I hate him as a mid but after Cross he's probably our best tagger or on par with McKenzie. He has the fitness for the midfield and could develop.

The shame is I thought he turned a huge corner with the Adelaide game. But maybe he and Jetta just had the ball kicked to them all day instead of actually being the good.

The game has definitely got way faster this year and Grimes might have morphed from a quick guy to just an average speed guy. If he can't run his way out of trouble and he can't muscle his way out of trouble like Dunn does then he'll find a lot of trouble!

The regressing ball use is a worry. I'd rather him keep making mistakes than go soft though. He'll never improve going soft and half backs have to kick the ball in an attacking mode.

He made me cringe a few times today, but saying that i'd rather him than anyone in the VFL at the moment, and besides he's our co-captain, they don't get dropped.

And if we move him to the forward, who gets taken out?

Half-forward: Watts, Frawley, Bail

Forward: Pedersen, Dawes, JKH.

Maybe Bail?

Seems like a long time since I out Grimes in my best players.. he's a bit of a worry IMO

Seems like a long time since I out Grimes in my best players.. he's a bit of a worry IMO

Rather have Dunn, Garland and Jetta as a medium/small defender, over Grimes at the moment but you can't drop him, don't know what we can do.

We support him. We encourage him and we don't hold his faults against him. Grimes will come good. If Roos did not believe that then he would not be playing right now.

Dean Kent in at half forward

- Salem moves to half back as a skilled ball user

- - Grimes moves to half forward as a defensive forward

- - - Bail out

Could be an option for preseason.

Or Bernie Vince to half back. Grimes to half forward. Someone ?Toumpas/Salem/Michie takes Vince's spot in the midfield.

The best case scenario is still hoping he finds his form.

Crackers, cant quote you, but thanks for your post, don't see the off the ball work on the telly, notice your post is ignored, too factual

Crackers, cant quote you, but thanks for your post, don't see the off the ball work on the telly, notice your post is ignored, too factual

there's a "like" button. not ignored.

Both Grimes and Terlich have the same problem. They think they can hug the boundary line with their kicks or spot up a target with pinpoint accuracy. Neither can, and neither should. Know your limitations (Gergiou was good at this, TMac is improving too) and stick to them.

Crackers, cant quote you, but thanks for your post, don't see the off the ball work on the telly, notice your post is ignored, too factual

The reasons some of us are worried about Grimes' form have nothing to do with what he's doing off the ball, which is fine.

It's what he does when he has it, or is getting near it, that is the problem.

With his ball drop & kicking style, Grimes will struggle to kick accurately anything less than about 30 metres. He's better when he kicks through the ball. His worst kicks are his short kicks, because he tends to try to "pull" the kick. He's not alone.

My concern is he has been making one or two mistakes a game for 4 years. He does not tackle well or break tackles well, he lacks serious body strength. Defends well on the lead and one one one and has some courage but that is all. Persevere for now but there will come a time soon if we are to move upward where he will not be in the side unless something seriously changes.

Nail on the head.

A number of supporters seem to have a blind spot with Grimes. Clearly not getting better.

Edited May 31, 201411 yr by AdamFarr

He's 25 years old ffs. We're not talking about someone learning the game. These are arguably his best years.

He does it on a weekly basis. Terrible decisions. Terrible execution. He and Terlich are momentum killers and good sides don't carry players like that.

I don't know what to do with him. He's captain and he isn't being dropped. We just have to live with it for the time being.

Spot on, P. He's played 78 games now. Wake up, people. Unfortunately, as you say, we have to live with it for this season. I wouldn't surprised if two elite kicking half backs are on our shopping list for this off season. In fact, with some of the guys we have kicking back there, it's almost our most important area to address from a list perspective. We need an elite decision maker and disposer or two. Pity blokes like Strauss haven't come on. That's what he was drafted for.

I'm stumped by that turnover he made in the 3rd quarter. Was such a momentum killer, and a totally unnecessary risk.

People that are saying Grimes was on Wingard today are kidding themselves. Jetta shutdown Wingard, in a brilliant game and complimented this by providing a little bit of defensive rebound too.

Trengove and Grimes, tarred with the same captaincy Brush, given far to early and as we saw last year, the only thing getting both a game was the captaincy!

Time to make a few courageous decisions re list management I think!

Let's be honest though. Grimes has never been a good kick. Giving him the captaincy hasn't made him a horrible kick. His poor decision making highlights his poor kicking.

Where is the courage in that?
You've got no idea.
Look at what Roos has done with other players that have underperformed.
How have you not figured it out yet?

Roos has made Pederson into one of our most important players, so we shouldn't rule anything out, but if there simply isn't enough there to work with, players eventually get delisted or traded. Maybe, it's time we accepted that Grimes has been overrated for too long? His ceiling is he's a good reader of the play, that can take some nice intercept marks, with a courageous style of play, and affect a great spoil every now and then, but it stops there.

His best games are fantastic and add a lot of value to the side (think back to his work in the win in Adelaide) but those games, rather than being the norm, are becoming the exceptions to the general trend of mediocrity.

I'd argue that although he affected a fantastic spoil against Dangerfield in the final moments, he still turned it over a number of times that day too. But people were hailing it as a great game. Seriously overrated.

Terlich seems to be improving somewhat in the past few weeks though - both still make glarring errors

Agreed. He still turns it over and too often, but he has shown small improvement over the last three weeks. This makes me wonder whether with an increased fitness base, could Terlich make it. Potentially. Eradicate those errors caused by a potential lack of fitness and inexperience. He does provide excellent run off half back.

Grimes apart from poor decision making cannot win one on one contests he is too skinny and timid always have been has always lacked body strength

Mark his card for mine.

He used to be able to win one-on-ones, but recently he's really struggled in this area. I, therefore, put that down to confidence. So that can be regained. It's his decision making and disposal that let him down. That's a harder proposition to rectify.

He works very hard. He tries very hard.

He bites off more than he can chew.

He just needs to learn his limitations and play within them.

If he doesn't, he won't be there when we start playing finals.

Come on, Nash. One spoil. It was a brilliant spoil, but he made a number of costly errors in that game too. You haven't linked to those, but this is his one moment to offset the rest of the season? Please. The fact there's only one 20 second grab of his season thus far is pretty damning as well.

I find this over concern just a bit silly really. just as well Clark is off retired, & Hogan hasn't played yet, or we'd all be onto them as well.

That's a bit of a leap, D.

I reckon he tries to do too much, maybe because he is captain he tries abit hard to influence games, I'd rather him keep his opponent down, show good leadership and make good decisions when it's his turn to go

Spot on. He doesn't know his limitations. Nathan Jones had this problem for many years and he sorted it out, IMO, last year. Matt Jones had this problem too. He seems to have sorted it out this season. Even his handball backwards to Tyson who then goaled today was an example of him knowing his limitations. Grimes needs to use his team mates like this.

He made me cringe a few times today, but saying that i'd rather him than anyone in the VFL at the moment, and besides he's our co-captain, they don't get dropped.

Not a reasonable excuse not to drop someone. Having said that, he won't get dropped. Roos likes unchanged sides. You only have to look at his Sydney sides.

Dean Kent in at half forward

- Salem moves to half back as a skilled ball user

- - Grimes moves to half forward as a defensive forward

- - - Bail out

Could be an option for preseason.

Or Bernie Vince to half back. Grimes to half forward. Someone ?Toumpas/Salem/Michie takes Vince's spot in the midfield.

The best case scenario is still hoping he finds his form.

Totally unfair. Bail has been one of our biggest improvers. Didn't particularly rate him at the start of the season, but he's a really hard worker and lays a number of tackles. Grimes doesn't have a role in the forwardline, for mine.

Edited May 31, 201411 yr by AdamFarr

Nail on the head.

A number of supporters seem to have a blind spot with Grimes. Clearly not getting better.

Hasnt improved. Glaring weakness in an otherwise promising team.. No good

true. the teams improvement is accentuating Grime's weaknesses.

Choose your own adventure.

You are Jack Grimes and you have the footy at half back, with a paddock in front of you. If you want to kick the ball as soon as you get it, go to Result 1. If you want to play on, go to Result 2.

Result 1: You try to spot up a target on the boundary line, but you miss it and the ball goes out of bounds on the full.

Result 2: You run yourself into trouble. If you wish to take on tacklers, go to Result 3. If you wish to get rid of the ball, go to Result 4.

Result 3: You are tackled and pinged for holding the ball. The opposition move it quickly up the field and hit the scoreboard.

Result 4: You handball it to a teammate that is covered. They get tackled, pinged for holding the ball, and the opposition rebounds it quickly and hits the scoreboard.

If he's going to contribute on-field to our rise up the ladder, Grimes seriously needs to improve his decision making. He constantly turns it over, chooses the wrong option, and puts teammates under the pump. I think he's more than capable of becoming a great player, as we've all seen it in patches, but at the moment he's got a lot of work to do to get there.

I actually thought he looked pale and sick out there....

Not his best match by any stretch, but give him a break.

Ever since he broke his collarbone last year he looks to lack size and strength in his upper body which doesn't help.

We have clearly run out of scapegoats. It must be hard to get angry with Byrnes out of the team, especially with Watts and Pederson playing well.

Some of the things being said about Grimes are simply false. He is excellent overhead. He very rarely loses a contest. He is strong (despite comments to the contrary) and quick.

Add to this is he is a great runner, which is really important to a strong defence.

The problem is when posters only look through the most basic of lenses. They see the occasional turnover and then try to justify why that player is bad. Grimes is so far in the positive balance with his contributions that it isn't funny.

His actions on the field will be enormously respected by those who know: the coaches and his fellow defenders. He is a role player and he plays that role very well.

Edited May 31, 201411 yr by Axis of Bob