Well, it shows how tough the last seven years have been that I come away from a 31-point loss quite pleased with proceedings. It's the first time I've seen Salem live and he looks quite the classy player. We haven't had enough quality kids coming through in recent years obviously so I'm looking to the progress of Salem, JKH, Viney, Tyson, Toumpas and Sasquatch Hogan for some hope for the future. Baby steps with this team. As others are noting, attacking running and mindset are required for bigger scores, but when we've had neither good attacking or defensive running previously, it has to start with defence.

I got in the car and listened to a solid 20 minutes of Melbourne talk on 774 too so that was a bonus. Scott West seemed unimpressed with our player development during his tenure there and indicated we hadn't invested enough in that area in the past and it has cost us with the number of high draft picks who never really developed and are either no longer at the club or languishing in the twos or in rancid form. Not stuff we didn't know, but good to listen to someone who had involvement at the club.

All in all, not a night to be too upset about. We are getting better.

Edited April 26, 201411 yr by pantaloons

I watched that through my binos at the ground. He gave Watts a fair spray it looked like, pointing this way and that and walked off shaking his head. As you say Watts looked as if he wanted the earth to swallow him up. Jetta was injured so he couldn't sub Watts off. He did the next best thing and started him on the bench and didn't put him back on for 7 minutes.

Seriously Viney and JKK embarrassed Watts with the difference in intensity. I am positive Roos will drop him and will not pick him again until he radically changes his approach. I'm not sure he will be able to.

Actually when Watts did come back on in the last his intensity lifted considerably, I thought anyway.

I probably think Its time to trade Jack Watts. Too many times Ive read and observed that he appears to have lost confidence to the point where I don't really care. The gap between his best and his worst is simply extraordinary and, for the most part his games lie closer to the latter. I now think we have to move beyond Jack.

What would you get for him?

Certainty not a first round and the only club who would have gambled a second round pick last year would have been Carlton.

You'd get a third round.

Great foot skills yet you'd never know because he always handballs backwards.

I heard watts watches a lot of pro basketball. IF he wants to learn to play Aussie Rules, & to let his current bad habits fade away, then he should giveaway watching basketball & go to nearly all the big AFL games he can get to.

watching basketball only refreshes his bad habits in his head. he has to stop those basketball plays in his head, standing in circles passing the ball back & forth.

he has to run,,, to receive & to carry. & use his foot skills at the end of the run.

Actually when Watts did come back on in the last his intensity lifted considerably, I thought anyway.

Isn't that an indictment on his first three quarters sadly.

What would you get for him?

Certainty not a first round and the only club who would have gambled a second round pick last year would have been Carlton.

You'd get a third round.

I know. But I actually think its coming to that. As someone noted, he's not in our best 22 if you look at it in the cold hard light of day

I got in the car and listened to a solid 20 minutes of Melbourne talk on 774 too so that was a bonus. Scott West seemed unimpressed with our player development during his tenure there and indicated we hadn't invested enough in that area in the past and it has cost us with the number of high draft picks who never really developed and are either no longer at the club or languishing in the twos or in rancid form. Not stuff we didn't know, but good to listen to someone who had involvement at the club.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but surely West was responsible for part of that development that didn't occur?

Had at least two direct turnovers IIRC. One in the first quarter was from a mark and thus was under no pressure at all, which is where Terlich stands out.

We make a lot of mistakes and give up way too many turnovers, but it's the turnovers that come from players under no pressure that kill us the most, and Terlich every week gives us one or two of those.

I thought Terlich was terrible tonight and it seemed to me that every time he was involved the ball was turned over.

He is a liability and just doesn't have the skill at this level.

As was said if he had the skill of Watts he'd be a beauty.

I agree the one in the first quarter was awful and that at times Terlich does cough it up, however he also had a number of intercept marks and 16 disposals.

Going off the stats on the AFL website he was 3rd in the time for disposal efficiency, 81.2%. Had 3 clangers but so did M Jones, Dunn, Pederson (3 of our 'best') and Viney had 6.

Needs to work on his decision making, but would much rather Terlich in the team than any of Jetta, Nicholson or Strauss, is also only 24 so has time to work on his disposal efficiency.

Edited April 26, 201411 yr by jaseon

I know. But I actually think its coming to that. As someone noted, he's not in our best 22 if you look at it in the cold hard light of day

Who do we replace him with? I still think he's best 22, but that's more a reflection of what's in the sheds.

Cannot agree. There are plenty of players who we've done no favours for, but Howe is not one of them. We played him forward where he wants to play, clearly. He didn't get involved enough, so we tried running him through the middle, and this year off half back. He's getting even less involved.

He does not try hard enough. He does not understand how hard you need to run, forwards and backwards. He wants to take screamers too often. He can't kick straight at goal. He doesn't put in second efforts.

I have no sympathy at all.

who's mentioned sympathy?

I want Howe to work harder, or have a spell at Casey to refresh his desire. & he should stay off halfback & should work hard both ways, & run & carry. exactly what I imagined he could do as a halfback. he has the running & foot skills to be very damaging coming off halfback delivering the ball forward.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but surely West was responsible for part of that development that didn't occur?

He quickly added 'I'm unimpressed with myself'

Actually when Watts did come back on in the last his intensity lifted considerably, I thought anyway.

When Sydney were 5 goals up and the sting had gone out of the game.

Who do we replace him with? I still think he's best 22, but that's more a reflection of what's in the sheds.

Is he though? I think we are so used to saying he is but a number of players from Casey would have performed better than Jack did tonight.

What would you get for him?

Certainty not a first round and the only club who would have gambled a second round pick last year would have been Carlton.

You'd get a third round.

If they take his contract off our hands that's a win.

I probably think Its time to trade Jack Watts. Too many times Ive read and observed that he appears to have lost confidence to the point where I don't really care. The gap between his best and his worst is simply extraordinary and, for the most part his games lie closer to the latter. I now think we have to move beyond Jack.

I must have missed his best. I can't recall it. Yet. it hasn't happened to this point.

5 minute cameo's don't count

Who do we replace him with? I still think he's best 22, but that's more a reflection of what's in the sheds.

Kent when he returns from injury. Salem could take his spot also.

Toumpas or Clisby are two that spring to mind.

Is he though? I think we are so used to saying he is but a number of players from Casey would have performed better than Jack did tonight.

I would suggest anyone from Casey RtG

Have turned a full circle on Pedo - was good lead hard, chased hard put his body on the line many many times, good strong 2nd and 3rd efforts - was impressed with the big fella. If only he did this in his first game last year - Neeld would have been hailed a master! On reflection good thing he didn't!

Watts Howe - need a rocket up their backsides big time

Was overall happy with the game, not so much the final score but the effort was there - had they turned up that way against GC a win was definitely there to be grabbed. Just need to find an avenue to goal - Hogan may help if he can get onto the park, Watts and Howe might be useful if they can work out how actually play [censored] football and not 3/4 pace circle work without opposition. Umpiring evenly and getting rid of this stupid holding the ball interpretation may help (although it looked like the umpires got abused at half time by the boss and changed their tune in the second half after gifting a couple to the swans)

If they play with that hardness week in week out I will be satisfied, a few things to tidy up still and short of key forwards but won't be unhappy and embarrassed by them. A little more polish with the same hardness and wins will come

I agree the one in the first quarter was awful and that at times Terlich does cough it up, however he also had a number of intercept marks and 16 disposals.

Going off the stats on the AFL website he was 3rd in the time for disposal efficiency, 81.2%. Had 3 clangers but so did M Jones, Dunn, Pederson (3 of our 'best') and Viney had 6.

Needs to work on his decision making, but would much rather Terlich in the team than any of Jetta, Nicholson or Strauss, is also only 24 so has time to work on his disposal efficiency.

The thing about Terlich is that his clangers are as he comes out of defence. They kill us every time. He makes poor decisions and if you're standing at full back, a poor decision can lead to a goal against.

I notice Terlich's mistakes a lot more than others - his often come under no pressure and cost us a lot more than the ones that are turned over further up the ground.

He's not the only one, we have a lot of players who turn it over, but he stands out to many of us because his mistakes just seem to cost us so much. If you're playing off half back you have got to make decent decisions, and he doesn't do that IMO.

who's mentioned sympathy?

I want Howe to work harder, or have a spell at Casey to refresh his desire. & he should stay off halfback & should work hard both ways, & run & carry. exactly what I imagined he could do as a halfback. he has the running & foot skills to be very damaging coming off halfback delivering the ball forward.

You spoke of how we'd played him in the wrong position.

I don't care if we have. He doesn't try hard enough. Pedersen's being played in the wrong position (he's better off half back than half forward) but he's not letting that stop him from at least trying.

Yes, Kent would be another.

Is he though? I think we are so used to saying he is but a number of players from Casey would have performed better than Jack did tonight.

Yeah, but name them! On the changes thread, I pointed out that probably best 22 to come in are Garland, Reilly, Kent, Clisby and Toumpas.

To go, Jetta, Terlich, Bail, Byrnes. I'm not sure Watts is next in line.

Yeah, but name them!

Sorry you guys were quicker than me!!

Yeah, but name them! On the changes thread, I pointed out that probably best 22 to come in are Garland, Reilly, Kent, Clisby and Toumpas.

To go, Jetta, Terlich, Bail, Byrnes. I'm not sure Watts is next in line.

Watts goes before Jetta (if fit) Terlich and Bail as bad as they are in their own inimitable ways.

Well, it shows how tough the last seven years have been that I come away from a 31-point loss quite pleased with proceedings. It's the first time I've seen Salem live and he looks quite the classy player. We haven't had enough quality kids coming through in recent years obviously so I'm looking to the progress of Salem, JKH, Viney, Tyson, Toumpas and Sasquatch Hogan for some hope for the future. Baby steps with this team. As others are noting, attacking running and mindset are required for bigger scores, but when we've had neither good attacking or defensive running previously, it has to start with defence.

I got in the car and listened to a solid 20 minutes of Melbourne talk on 774 too so that was a bonus. Scott West seemed unimpressed with our player development during his tenure there and indicated we hadn't invested enough in that area in the past and it has cost us with the number of high draft picks who never really developed and are either no longer at the club or languishing in the twos or in rancid form. Not stuff we didn't know, but good to listen to someone who had involvement at the club.

All in all, not a night to be too upset about. We are getting better.

I listened on the radio & TV.

i feel the same. Hope is returning thru the Roos administration. discipline is being taken on board by most, & the responsible footy is taking shape as our some of our youngsters.

Hope is feeling like your in good hands.