Not really considering he was clearly the second best prospect in the draft for the entire season, captain of his state, had been playing and playing well in senior footy premierships the two years prior to being drafted and contrasted perfectly with Jack Viney in terms of us getting a quality inside and outside player

the only absurd thing in all of this is the insane expectations of some of our supporters, i'm sure Jimmy would look alot better in Ports side, and Wines wouldn't look nearly as good in our side, either way we'd think we had made the wrong call, it's the nature of a club in our position.

No. It is a continuation of our shocking drafting.

Drafting project babies rather than young guns ready to go.

It's worth mentioning he's kicked 1 goal straight in two games where the team has scored an embarrassing 6.15 and 4.6.

He's doing his part on the scoreboard where it counts, there's a lot of other players far more worthy of criticism than The Toump.

It's worth mentioning he's kicked 1 goal straight in two games where the team has scored an embarrassing 6.15 and 4.6.

He's doing his part on the scoreboard where it counts, there's a lot of other players far more worthy of criticism than The Toump.

Agree, he would not be the first i would target. The one thing he needs to work on during this season, is his willingness to take body contact. I'm not saying he should go looking for it every time he goes near the ball, but he gets pushed off balance too easily. If he is able to take the hit/contact yet keep the ball to his advantage, he will be an immediately improved player.

As for positioning, it is much harder to be an outside player than inside, as not only do you need to predict where the ball is going to be and keep up, but also which side of the pack the ball will fall, as opposed to the inside mids, who just need to follow the ball.

No. It is a continuation of our shocking drafting.

Drafting project babies rather than young guns ready to go.

Just because you aren't happy with his first season and two games doesn't make that so.

many a good player took time to develop, we were never going to be a premiership threat for that amount of time anyway and all indications where Toumpas was and is a star in the making,

I'd say giving a player 5 seasons is a fair amount of time to make an assessment of what they are going to do, not 16 games which is what Toumpas has played... you are writing a kid off after 16 games..

To follow on from an earlier post - we've had six goal scorers this year!

To follow on from an earlier post - we've had six goal scorers this year!

And the disastrous Jimmy Toumpas has kicked 20% of our goals

It's worth mentioning he's kicked 1 goal straight in two games where the team has scored an embarrassing 6.15 and 4.6.

He's doing his part on the scoreboard where it counts, there's a lot of other players far more worthy of criticism than The Toump.

byrnesy's leading the list in this dept.... hes a keeper hey

Another slow B grader to add to the ranks. Schwab, Connolly and Neeld have all but killed this team. Roos will find it near impossible to either fix it or find anyone stupid enough to takeover. We,re along way off it now. I wonder if Jackson still expects my money?

It's worth mentioning he's kicked 1 goal straight in two games where the team has scored an embarrassing 6.15 and 4.6.

He's doing his part on the scoreboard where it counts, there's a lot of other players far more worthy of criticism than The Toump.

well i thought this was a toumpas thread

Just because you aren't happy with his first season and two games doesn't make that so.

many a good player took time to develop, we were never going to be a premiership threat for that amount of time anyway and all indications where Toumpas was and is a star in the making,

I'd say giving a player 5 seasons is a fair amount of time to make an assessment of what they are going to do, not 16 games which is what Toumpas has played... you are writing a kid off after 16 games..

We don't have another 5 seasons to sit and hope. This is why i believe we recruited the wrong player for our needs.

We need players who wish to impose themselves on the field now.

I wonder if Jackson still expects my money?

I think it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Just don't sit on the fence, otherwise you'll end up like many of our players, waiting for someone else to make the decision for you

some very good players had remarkably similar stats and criticisms to Toumpas in his first three years

Cotchin Swan Hodge Ablett Toumpas

1st 16.4 disposals 9.0 disposals 15.5 disposals 8.3 disposals 12.0 disposals

2nd 17.7 disposals 13.2 disposals 12.9 disposals 14.9 disposals 17.7 disposals

3rd 19.5 disposals 16.7 disposals 15.7 disposals 14.3 disposals

Ablett, Cotchin and Swan were all accused of being soft, Jimmy Toumpas is doing fine.

We don't have another 5 seasons to sit and hope. This is why i believe we recruited the wrong player for our needs.

We need players who wish to impose themselves on the field now.

And Ollie Wines wouldn't be making anywhere near the same impact if he played for us.

And Ollie Wines wouldn't be making anywhere near the same impact if he played for us.

There is actually no factual base for that suggestion....a supposition upon opinion ...yes...But a categorical statement. Not possible

some very good players had remarkably similar stats and criticisms to Toumpas in his first three years

Cotchin Swan Hodge Ablett Toumpas

1st 16.4 disposals 9.0 disposals 15.5 disposals 8.3 disposals 12.0 disposals

2nd 17.7 disposals 13.2 disposals 12.9 disposals 14.9 disposals 17.7 disposals

3rd 19.5 disposals 16.7 disposals 15.7 disposals 14.3 disposals

Ablett, Cotchin and Swan were all accused of being soft, Jimmy Toumpas is doing fine.

Dont suggest hes soft...hes slow

And Ollie Wines wouldn't be making anywhere near the same impact if he played for us.

that is what you hope. I do not agree.

some very good players had remarkably similar stats and criticisms to Toumpas in his first three years

Cotchin Swan Hodge Ablett Toumpas

1st 16.4 disposals 9.0 disposals 15.5 disposals 8.3 disposals 12.0 disposals

2nd 17.7 disposals 13.2 disposals 12.9 disposals 14.9 disposals 17.7 disposals

3rd 19.5 disposals 16.7 disposals 15.7 disposals 14.3 disposals

Ablett, Cotchin and Swan were all accused of being soft, Jimmy Toumpas is doing fine.

You'll find the total average possessions per game has gone up a lot since those players debuted, so it's not really comparing apples with apples.

You'll find the total average possessions per game has gone up a lot since those players debuted, so it's not really comparing apples with apples.

careful...in danger of making sense

some very good players had remarkably similar stats and criticisms to Toumpas in his first three years

Cotchin Swan Hodge Ablett Toumpas

1st 16.4 disposals 9.0 disposals 15.5 disposals 8.3 disposals 12.0 disposals

2nd 17.7 disposals 13.2 disposals 12.9 disposals 14.9 disposals 17.7 disposals

3rd 19.5 disposals 16.7 disposals 15.7 disposals 14.3 disposals

Ablett, Cotchin and Swan were all accused of being soft, Jimmy Toumpas is doing fine.

Apart from Cotchin the others weren't "messiah" players in their first few years. Ablett carried the weight of his surname but wasn't expected to lift Geelong to the top of the ladder.

Apart from Cotchin the others weren't "messiah" players in their first few years. Ablett carried the weight of his surname but wasn't expected to lift Geelong to the top of the ladder.

very appropriate observation.

Where weve gone majorly wrong is attempting to draft our salvation...instead of footy players

Apart from Cotchin the others weren't "messiah" players in their first few years. Ablett carried the weight of his surname but wasn't expected to lift Geelong to the top of the ladder.

That's exactly the point, we make him our messiah, he has played 16 games in possibly the worst team of all time and he's doing okay.

And Ollie Wines wouldn't be making anywhere near the same impact if he played for us.

Ollie Wines would be making even more impact if he played for us, scary I know..

I told blokes at work after Ablett left Geelong - that he'd be a better player the Gold Coast, they did not listen.

But there are certain individuals that do not need others to thrive, external pressures to them mean very little - they have such inner belief.

Ollie WInes is wired this way, thankfully so is Jack Viney, he will make a big difference out there.

But as scary as it sounds, I think Ollie Wines would be just as good playing for a bottom side.

The Abletts, Carey, Lockett, Viney, Hird, they are very similar in their make up, it isn't hard to identify these type of players, there is a slight risk with some.

But.. There are also strategies to pull them into line, as Richmond know, - and why Williams is important in bringing Martin into line.

that is what you hope. I do not agree.

Exactly the same as you saying Toumpas won't get better, he is averaging 17 touches, 3 tackles and a goal in one of the worst teams of all time

give him the support Port get and you could add 20% at least to that, 20 touches, 4 tackles and a goal is a decent return for a 16 gamer, especially when his disposal is as good as it is.

Exactly the same as you saying Toumpas won't get better, he is averaging 17 touches, 3 tackles and a goal in one of the worst teams of all time

give him the support Port get and you could add 20% at least to that, 20 touches, 4 tackles and a goal is a decent return for a 16 gamer, especially when his disposal is as good as it is.

yep...hed kick 1.1

all jokes aside its not the point. His touches can be good but hes a bit of a ditherer also. Granted getting more acquainted with the reality of what AFL demands may help. In this instance Jimmy and Ollie are separate beasts.. Ollie takes the game on... Toump attempts to work amongst its cracks...in space.. and space isnt always there.

Exactly the same as you saying Toumpas won't get better, he is averaging 17 touches, 3 tackles and a goal in one of the worst teams of all time

give him the support Port get and you could add 20% at least to that, 20 touches, 4 tackles and a goal is a decent return for a 16 gamer, especially when his disposal is as good as it is.

That's not the point. This club has to sell hope not patience.

We passed up a highly tuned V8 midfielder for a kid with bad hips who showed potential.

And guess what he is a long way off yet. Do i blame Jimmy? No

Do i hold the previous recriuting staff responsible? Of course.

This club hasn't got 5 years up its sleeve. We were told to be patient in 2008.

And we are still playing like scared kids when the 4 points are on offer in 2014.