The 2013 Finals Thread

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It's plainly obvious that Essendon players were administered substances, the point of which was to make them better footballers. That does not automatically lead to the conclusion that they cheated. Clubs regularly give their players completely innocent supplements.

The lack of concrete evidence as to what was administered, as well as the doubt as to the medical effects of such things as AOD, leaves the possibility open that whatever was given to Essendon players, it made them worse, not better.

In the end, Essendon deserved to be punished, and it was completely fine for the AFL to remove them from the finals, but I don't think it's fair to say that they were banned from the finals as punishment for cheating in 2013. If they gained an unfair advantage at all, it would have been in the 2012 season. Under your argument, if we don't know what advantage they got, why couldn't that advantage continue into the 2014 season? Should the AFL ban them from the 2014 finals too?

I agree with this. Your view is fair and rational.

This isn't the same as bub saying 'we stuffed up', and that's what frustrated me.

This is a website that gives some information on the advantages of using peptides and whilst I'm not a chemist or a doctor, just a brief look at it shows that there are considerable benefits to be gained and I don't think they are all legal. My view is that it is an illegal aid to the players and can have a long term effect by allowing the players to build a bigger body mass which can then be maintained giving them a longer term benefit.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/02/13/peptides-how-do-they-work-and-why-would-a-player-use-them/

So what are they?

Peptides are a small chain of amino acids that isn’t quite long enough to be considered a full protein (less than 50 units).

They are, in essence, the building blocks that create protein.

In a supplement form peptides come in different chemical compounds. The ones the ACC report identifies as being used within the Australian sporting community are known as GHRP-2, GHRP-6 and CJC-1295.

IGF, MGF and SARMs are identified by the ACC as commonly used peptides used in the bodybuilding community.

The next big question to consider is why an athlete would consider using peptides.

Peptides are used for their anabolic effect on an athlete’s muscle mass. (GHRP means growth hormone releasing hexapeptide, a type of growth hormone releasing hormone).

This can be useful in a couple of ways.

Obviously an athlete will need to heal quickly and be productive soon after an injury. Peptides will help the muscle or soft tissue in this rebuilding healing process.

Supplements that provide an anabolic effect could also be used during pre-season and other periods where building muscle mass is important.

Muscle mass can be built quickly because the athlete can make small tears in a muscle and have it heal on a rapid schedule to continuously repeat the process – the end effect being increased muscle mass and reduced body fat in a shorter timeframe.

The bodybuilding community use peptides that are most effective in this second way as newer peptides don’t come with the side-effects of anabolic steroids.

It is the links to bodybuilding and gym communities that help pro-athletes find new substances such as peptides to improve performance.

For some time now, the bodybuilding community has been aware of these supplements and the inability for testing to detect them in most cases.

This is especially the case if urine testing is the main form of detection.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

What a weekend of joy, we get a real coach, Ports win gives me hope. Collingwood lose, Geelong lose, Richmond lose the only downside was Hawthorn and Carlton won.

Plus I'm outright leader in the Demonland tipping competition despite only getting 1 winner.

It doesn't get any better than that (only joking of course).

[old dee 23,778]

What a weekend of joy, we get a real coach, Ports win gives me hope. Collingwood lose, Geelong lose, Richmond lose the only downside was Hawthorn and Carlton won.

Almost agree with you Robbie57

Richmond lost but no big deal for me with Carlton winning and I like the Hawks

Add Uni Blacks won, Norwood won and finished the H&A four games clear on top.

West Perth won and are now in the GF.

All round a pretty good wekend.

Oh almost forgot the Dees did not lose.

[beelzebub 23,313]

It's plainly obvious that Essendon players were administered substances, the point of which was to make them better footballers. That does not automatically lead to the conclusion that they cheated. Clubs regularly give their players completely innocent supplements.

The lack of concrete evidence as to what was administered, as well as the doubt as to the medical effects of such things as AOD, leaves the possibility open that whatever was given to Essendon players, it made them worse, not better.

In the end, Essendon deserved to be punished, and it was completely fine for the AFL to remove them from the finals, but I don't think it's fair to say that they were banned from the finals as punishment for cheating in 2013. If they gained an unfair advantage at all, it would have been in the 2012 season. Under your argument, if we don't know what advantage they got, why couldn't that advantage continue into the 2014 season? Should the AFL ban them from the 2014 finals too?

I agree with this. Your view is fair and rational.

This isn't the same as bub saying 'we stuffed up', and that's what frustrated me.

Hey Titan

We STUFFED up !!

we chose the lesser.

[titan_uranus 24,970]

What a weekend of joy, we get a real coach, Ports win gives me hope. Collingwood lose, Geelong lose, Richmond lose the only downside was Hawthorn and Carlton won.

I personally was hoping for Richmond to beat Carlton, I can't stand the Blues, but the irony of Richmond losing to 9th is just so good, it evens out.

Here's to hoping Fremantle wins the premiership.

Hey Titan

We STUFFED up !!

we chose the lesser.

Good one.

[Guest]

[censored] yeah Port. Keep it up

[Ted Lasso 19,284]

Hope our boys are watching Port and seeing things can turn very quickly!

really hope they get up!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Selwood's ducking is disgraceful. Port have been great, but here come Geelong.

[wattsup 470]

Port are rattled

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Not sure what Rivers was arguing about.

[Wormburner 674]

Geez, Geelong are impressive when they turn it on - what a quarter!

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Not sure what Rivers was arguing about.

Poor ol' Riv. His legs look very proppy as he jogs off the ground.

[rjay 24,857]

Not sure what Rivers was arguing about.

Have a look at the replay, Schulz slid right into him and took his legs out. The new rule like it or not was a free kick to Rivers, I can't believe McAveny's commentary. It was a classic example of the new rule.

[Madness 44]

I know Port will probably get rolled, but gee they give me hope as a Dees supporter!

[wattsup 470]

Geez that was the worst decision ever to gift Geelong a goal

[wattsup 470]

Geez that was the worst decision ever to gift Geelong a goal

[Wormburner 674]

Poor ol' Riv. His legs look very proppy as he jogs off the ground.

Rivs won't be happy now, just been subbed off.

[Meggs 595]

So sick of Geelong and Chris Scotts' arrogance.

Love it if were transferred to Melbourne.

Go Port!

[Guest]

Umpires are a disgrace. Have killed the game

[Guest]

This is [censored]

[wattsup 470]

Great game ruined by the umps again

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,347]

Umpires are a disgrace. Have killed the game

There's been some p##sweak decisions. Chappy's bump was pointless.

[jackaub 1,402]

Just watching Geelong Its so obvious who the AFL want to win Cannot believe the umpireing ??

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Have a look at the replay, Schulz slid right into him and took his legs out. The new rule like it or not was a free kick to Rivers, I can't believe McAveny's commentary. It was a classic example of the new rule.

Never mind the whack he gave Schulz to the head.

[wattsup 470]

There's been some p##sweak decisions. Chappy's bump was pointless.

Chappys bump will cost him a week