Jack Watts - More Discussion (for those who haven't had enough)

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,906]

Without prejudice and just plain curiosity. Those that are real keen to retain Watts, where do you play him ?

With the cap on rotations likely to come in next year, I see a greater need for onballers to rest in the forward line. If (and I accept it might be a big if) he can get his aerobic fitness up, I could see him as an onballer in the mould of Adam Goodes who spends part of the game up forward. He couldn't play that role now as he hasn't got the fitness, strength or hardness. But if I were coach, that's what I'd be looking at.

[Tatu 416]

In a heartbeat!

lol.... GWS would jump at the chance to unload that salary on to us.... Could we pay it? Doubt it

[pm24 451]

Some players would see that as a reason to leave - others would see it as a challenge to overcome. He is a part of the club and can help drive its culture instead of ditching it because it's all too hard.

From all reports, it sounds like he has contributed positively to the culture within the club due to his positive attitude as a person. That's different to the professional sports and performance environment that we're all wanting, but how could a player who has never seen what that looks like, be expected to drive that? Is there any evidence to actually suggest that he is not contributing to the drive for professional training standards and the development of a better culture, or is that just being questioned because he is questioning whether to continue with the club? One player can try to influence the culture, but if the rest of the club is pushing the other way, the weight of numbers means that individual loses out. Jones is the perfect example of what we want to see, but the culture has still remained a shambles in his time with the club despite his example.

I think what Jack is probably concerned with is whether he is just seeing history repeat itself where plenty of words are spoken about change, but despite whatever efforts the players make, the administration will again fail them.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,906]

From all reports, it sounds like he has contributed positively to the culture within the club due to his positive attitude as a person. That's different to the professional sports and performance environment that we're all wanting, but how could a player who has never seen what that looks like, be expected to drive that? Is there any evidence to actually suggest that he is not contributing to the drive for professional training standards and the development of a better culture, or is that just being questioned because he is questioning whether to continue with the club? One player can try to influence the culture, but if the rest of the club is pushing the other way, the weight of numbers means that individual loses out. Jones is the perfect example of what we want to see, but the culture has still remained a shambles in his time with the club despite his example.

I think what Jack is probably concerned with is whether he is just seeing history repeat itself where plenty of words are spoken about change, but despite whatever efforts the players make, the administration will again fail them.

Perhaps he was speaking generically for all the players, not just for himself.

[beelzebub 23,382]

With the cap on rotations likely to come in next year, I see a greater need for onballers to rest in the forward line. If (and I accept it might be a big if) he can get his aerobic fitness up, I could see him as an onballer in the mould of Adam Goodes who spends part of the game up forward. He couldn't play that role now as he hasn't got the fitness, strength or hardness. But if I were coach, that's what I'd be looking at.

In all honesty this perplexes me. why hasnt he ??

[P-man 13,366]

Jack Watts needs to be released from this horribly managed club, that has thrown the kid to the wolves once too often...

It started when he was played against Colllingwood, well before he was ready, as a skinny year 12 student, as a marketing ploy by the club. Since then he has been the poster boy for pretty much every colossal failure (of which there have been an extraordinary amount) the club has bumbled their way into.

Last night was the final straw for me... there is no way, a kid, who has lived their adolescent years under pressure that would test a seasoned veteran, appear on national TV, at a time when there is speculation from every angle about his future. The fact that he clearly wasn't properly briefed on the most obvious of questions is yet another failing of the club's administration and has turned up the heat on him tenfold for no good reason.

Jack is a nice kid, an exceptional sporting talent and a potential asset to any club.

Jack is not a leader or a ruthless competitor, he's never pretended to be and people need to stop expecting it of him.

If Jack doesn't get out of that place soon, a really nice kid, just trying to find his place in the world like anyone else, is going to wind up in a padded cell.

There are more important things than Melbourne getting full value for their number one pick, especially since the club has let him and others down so many times.

The kid deserves better!

Apologies for being blunt, but what a load of waffle.

He's 22, that's not a kid. He is accountable for his decisions and actions, and he chose the life of a professional footballer, no-one did it for him.

The bulk of the pressure has been a result of being a number 1 pick at a struggling club, not from being mismanaged. He's hardly the first player to be in that position. Most number 1 picks go to struggling clubs, and they each cope with it in their own way. Even that [censored] Scully never had question marks over his attitude towards his football.

In some ways he's held himself together well, endearing himself to younger fans etc. But his onfield performances for the most part have been very disappointing, and for that he must take some responsibility. By his own admission he hasn't worked hard enough on and off the training track, and considering the responsibilities that come with being the no.1 pick, someone people will look up to whether you like it or not, that plainly sn't good enough.

If he was a a better club, with a better culture, no doubt he'd be twice the player he is. His circumstances have been that he isn't, and it's now up to him if he wants to be part of the solution or go the easier route. I don't think too many will be bowled over if it's the latter.

He does have talent, and with his very best years ahead of him, he'll be a loss, but please let's save the "poor little Jacky" routine. Enough.

Edited August 16, 2013 by P_Man

[Anders 14]

Let me play the Devil's Advocate for a minute.

Would it make people feel better if Watts whole-heartedly endorsed the club on the Footy Show, only to ditch us at years end? To me, it was probably an honest reaction - to be indecisive about where the club is headed and whether he wanted to be part of it. The club has been a joke on and off the field for his entire stay at club, and he's been one of the media's favourite whipping boy's since day one. He's been shown no leadership so how can he be expected to show any? Can you blame him thinking, the grass seems to be greener everywhere else...why should I be held responsible for this rabble?

Now before you shoot me down for this, yes, Watts does have have mental deficiencies and a lack of leadership. However, I doubt any young player going through our club in the last 5 years has any confidence in themselves and there's significant anecdotal evidence that Neeld treated him like garbage.

This rabble of a club only has itself to blame, if Watts leaves and we lose both our number draft picks in spectacularly rapid fashion. Add to that our #5 McLean gone, #4 Morton, and I expect by seasons end #3 Sylvia - Its not all poor recruitment - these players have good attributes we simply cannot harness or develop them. Our #2 pick Trengove looks like he's suffering PTSD and and if he any currency by the end of his contract he'll be out the door too.

Ideally, I'd love our players to stand together with resolve and have positive belief they can turn it around together. But the fact is they've played for this [censored] club too long to actually believe that. Viney still has the invincibility of youth but lets see where his mindset is after 4-5 seasons at this club.

Like everyone I'll be disappointed if Watts goes - but firstly, noone could say he doesnt have legitimate reasons and secondly - its not like Scully who left straight away for the $$$ Watts has given it a crack at MFC - but coming off two of the worst seasons in MFC's history - his career is only short and if he has value those close him will be persuaded him to jump before its too late.

[Captain_Jack 88]

Haha jeezus christ, I feel so sorry for the poor kid trying to find his place in the world while pocketing several hundred thousand dollars a year to do so. Give me a spell....

Don't hate him because he has enough ability to attract hundreds of thousands of dollars for doing what he does.

If you had a talent for anything other than shooting your mouth off on internet forums, somebody might pay you for your services... they don't, with good reason.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I don't mind Watts putting contract talks off, in fact, I hope he's not at the club next year. It's his attitude that annoys me. Be the change you want to see, Jack. You take responsibility and help drive the club forward. How about you take it upon yourself to deliver on your undoubted talent. Or, you can take the easy way out and try to get to a stronger club.

Bye.

Pea-heart.

[deeko 952]

He makes it very hard to like him sometimes. Especially when in comparison you read Jack Vineys write up on the mfc page

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

read jack vineys article thats why we dont need soft [censored] we need jack vineys

[rpfc 28,736]

A great number of you might do an about face if he re-signs...

Look, we were all worried about the stories emanating from the club about Neeld's effect on the players and the fact that there were players who were keen to leave if Neeld was still in charge.

It was a driving force, for many, behind the desire to remove Neeld.

Now it comes to light that, yes, the players were not happy and that Watts was a player whose desire to remain at the club was shaken by a head coach we selected to coach the club in Spetember 2011.

Now it is August 2013 and we have another decision to make. And we have no coach, no President, no head of footy, and no midfield (which will effect Watts as one of our prized assets...er players).

Frankly, I would trade him if a suitable mid came along but I am not about to burn an asset just because he has the level headed belief to make sure the club pulls its finger out before he signs on for another few years of being the clubs lightning rod.

You do not build a list by being 'hurt' by remarks in the media and making ambit claims and blanket statements about the future of players.

You coax him back to the fold and if the right trade comes in you pull the trigger.

Some of you are making this very personal.

[Undeeterred 3,124]

How abou he gives us 5 good reasons to keep him? Been around for 5 years and done [censored]-all except embarrass the jumper with his weak pea-hearted efforts. Can [censored] back to basketball as far as I'm concerned where he won't be in fear of copping a bruise.

Why do all you idiots keep using basketball as a proxy for softness?

Have any of you actually played?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,906]

In all honesty this perplexes me. why hasnt he ??

Poor player development? Poor attitude? Poor understanding of what's required?

Perhaps a bit of each?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,906]

I don't mind Watts putting contract talks off, in fact, I hope he's not at the club next year. It's his attitude that annoys me. Be the change you want to see, Jack. You take responsibility and help drive the club forward. How about you take it upon yourself to deliver on your undoubted talent. Or, you can take the easy way out and try to get to a stronger club.

Bye.

Pea-heart.

I see Ben Hur has started signing off his posts.

[beelzebub 23,382]

Why do all you idiots keep using basketball as a proxy for softness?

Have any of you actually played?

in 40 odd years of it i think I can probably count only a handful of games that were void of argy bargy. For a non contact sport I got a hell of a lot of bruises..lol

[beelzebub 23,382]

Poor player development? Poor attitude? Poor understanding of what's required?

Perhaps a bit of each?

This is something that irks me. This "development" thing. Im suspecting in a fashion that its a little bit of an urban myth. The 'development stick ' is the same one applied to all the team, but it has a very distinct pattern of variation as to results. Some players progress , others languish. So I thought, just to humour myself , if we take this "development' notion OUT of things and just go to the other two you highlight : attitude and understanding I can see that these as more individualistic in nature might well have the greater overall effects.

As anyone who has observed Jack play over the course its hard not to go past one particular quality , or area , that bobs up all the time. That being consistency. I think I can only remember 2-3 games where Jack was "on' ...all day. Just about every other game Ive attended or watched he seems to waft in and out of this mode. He really struggles to this observer to get 4 qtrs together. hes certainly not alone there, but even 3 is a rarity. Its more in fact that through these qtrs he waxes and wains with commitment. His understanding and awareness of the game is, i think imho, very good. Which makes it even the more perplexing that he doesnt put that to better use for more of each game. This brings me back to attitude and i think in all honesty with Watts this is where it starts and finishes.Its HIS attitude. Whatever the club presents and does it still comes back to how he deals with it, what you make of it etc.

So if I now apply the litmus of 'attitude " to Fitness, Strength and Hardness it can be argued he is manifestly responsible for all 3. if he had an attitude that required himself to attend to these deficiencies then you would think it would become remedial. Others look within, see areas of improvement and go about doing that.

5 years in the system and he's still struggling in some basic areas. I can only think of one person who can change any of that, and he doesnt seem to want to do it bad enough.

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

With the cap on rotations likely to come in next year, I see a greater need for onballers to rest in the forward line. If (and I accept it might be a big if) he can get his aerobic fitness up, I could see him as an onballer in the mould of Adam Goodes who spends part of the game up forward. He couldn't play that role now as he hasn't got the fitness, strength or hardness. But if I were coach, that's what I'd be looking at.

Where do you get this from? His GPs numbers show he runs 14 or 15 kms per game and plays 98./' on ground. Criticise the kid for what he doesn't do but don't state as a fact that he's not fit when it's not true.

[beelzebub 23,382]

Where do you get this from? His GPs numbers show he runs 14 or 15 kms per game and plays 98./' on ground. Criticise the kid for what he doesn't do but don't state as a fact that he's not fit when it's not true.

Often gives up the chase for a lad so 'fit'

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,906]

Where do you get this from? His GPs numbers show he runs 14 or 15 kms per game and plays 98./' on ground. Criticise the kid for what he doesn't do but don't state as a fact that he's not fit when it's not true.

Apologies. It was an opinion based on watching him play. In my view he doesn't get to the second contest often enough which I attribute to a lack of aerobic fitness for his current role (either half back flank or key forward). He'll need a bigger tank to be an onballer and I don't think he's there yet.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Jackie may be suffering from "Distant fields syndrome"

Just possibly other clubs have contracted Roseycolouredpotentialitis !!!

Might benefit all with changes of sceneries.

??? do you mean the green looks greener over there?

or do you think he thinks, its easier pickings over there?

imo we need self drivers with inbuilt glow plugs, so they can fire themselves up without someone on the crank handle...

[dee-luded 2,959]

From all reports, it sounds like he has contributed positively to the culture within the club due to his positive attitude as a person. That's different to the professional sports and performance environment that we're all wanting, but how could a player who has never seen what that looks like, be expected to drive that? Is there any evidence to actually suggest that he is not contributing to the drive for professional training standards and the development of a better culture, or is that just being questioned because he is questioning whether to continue with the club? One player can try to influence the culture, but if the rest of the club is pushing the other way, the weight of numbers means that individual loses out. Jones is the perfect example of what we want to see, but the culture has still remained a shambles in his time with the club despite his example.

I think what Jack is probably concerned with is whether he is just seeing history repeat itself where plenty of words are spoken about change, but despite whatever efforts the players make, the administration will again fail them.

thats why we need all the elite leaders we can muster. even older ones who can show the way that they won flags...

we've continually had too many she'll be righters over the decades. as the Catters Were...

Edited August 16, 2013 by dee-luded

[Pello 1]

What if Jack is thinking what position will I play next year under a new coach given that Clarke, Dawes, Hogan, Fitzpatrick and Howe will all be available?

What if Jack is thinking that that he may end up in defence and that is a position he doesn't particularly want to play?

What if Jack has already been told by the MFC that we will be putting him up for trade at years end in the hope of gaining a quality midfielder?

I totally support trading him as long as we get a quality midfielder or high draft pick for him. We have a quality forward line if we can get them all on the park. Our backline is also good for talls. So where does that leave Jack - on the trade table!

[beelzebub 23,382]

??? do you mean the green looks greener over there?

or do you think he thinks, its easier pickings over there?

imo we need self drivers with inbuilt glow plugs, so they can fire themselves up without someone on the crank handle...

Certainly a bit of the greener etc.

I also just have this idea he's waiting for some magical panacea that will eminate from someone/somewhere else.

definitely agree re self driving...absolutely

[beelzebub 23,382]

What if Jack is thinking what position will I play next year under a new coach given that Clarke, Dawes, Hogan, Fitzpatrick and Howe will all be available?

What if Jack is thinking that that he may end up in defence and that is a position he doesn't particularly want to play?

What if Jack has already been told by the MFC that we will be putting him up for trade at years end in the hope of gaining a quality midfielder?

I totally support trading him as long as we get a quality midfielder or high draft pick for him. We have a quality forward line if we can get them all on the park. Our backline is also good for talls. So where does that leave Jack - on the trade table!

Well if ive thought of it, you also, undoubted many more here Im sure it may well have crossed his mind also. He may well be, besides anything else, be superfluous to requirements and this at a time of abject shortages in other areas of the ground