Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

RR I see your point and I tend to agree that it isn't justice to have someone live their final days in the courts given his reputation was left in tatters. For me the issue of justice is more about Visy keeping the money they earnt through their misconduct. In an equitable world they would have to repay the gains plus a penalty as a disincentive. As it stands Visy gained to the tune on $2bn for their misconduct while their customers suffered a higher cost base along with end consumers.

Due process requires that it goes through the legal system. The process was frustrated by Pratts illness. It's a pity he was not brought to justice as his actions were disgraceful and he was responsible for and owned Visy.

Had they got Pratt guilty they would have got Visy.

[Grapeviney 9,695]

The ACC report was about the importation and distribution of illegal substances within sporting clubs. The evidence found about Essendon and Cronulla has damaged their respective codes and put Australian sport under question globally.

It was also about organised crime and match-fixing, but what's eventuated out of that? Nothing.

Soccer, rugby union and cricket were also at that presser. Any evidence or investigations into those sports, or where they there for window-dressing?

And I'm not sure why you keep talking about closing down and removing resources from ASADA; nowhere did I say the Government was doing that.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It was also about organised crime and match-fixing, but what's eventuated out of that? Nothing.

Soccer, rugby union and cricket were also at that presser. Any evidence or investigations into those sports, or where they there for window-dressing?

Agree. But both organised crime and match fixing are alot more insidious and difficult to pin or limit to Australia.

And ASADAs brief is narrow concerning doping.

There would be a number of authorities involved in tracking organised crime.

The Purana taskforce did nab low level soccer match fixing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-15/police-uncover-alleged-soccer-match-fixing-ring/4958946

And you only have to look at the debacle of world cricket with the impotent ICC and the Indians to know the sport at the international level is impacted. I am not aware of evidence that Australian cricketers are specifically involved. But the World cup in 2015 will be interesting.

And I'm not sure why you keep talking about closing down and removing resources from ASADA; nowhere did I say the Government was doing that.

Gutting/closing down/removing resources has the same impact....nobbling an anti doping investigation....

You are splitting hairs if the Government would even do as you suggest. It has the same impact.

[chookrat 4,247]

Due process requires that it goes through the legal system. The process was frustrated by Pratts illness. It's a pity he was not brought to justice as his actions were disgraceful and he was responsible for and owned Visy.

Had they got Pratt guilty they would have got Visy.

Indeed - I guess we will just have to settle for Carlton at 0-4 this wk.

[Green Demon 822]

Jobe is on the Footy Show. The intro was more than I could handle, so I ain't watching the rest of it. Let me know if someone asks him if he is giving the Brownlow back.

[jnrmac 20,046]

Inge only got a soapbox to make his claim because the Government needed a distraction and thus organised that notorious all-code press conference to launch the ACC report.

The Attorney General at the time Jason Clare, had been in the job two weeks. The Eddie Obeid show from ICAC was front page every day and the Gvt was desperate to get him off it because Gillard wanted to name the election date.

Hence the Notorious all code press conference. Flippin disgrace.

[Grapeviney 9,695]

You are splitting hairs if the Government would even do as you suggest. It has the same impact.

I disagree that changing the personnel nobbles the investigation. incoming governments do it all the time with departmental and agency heads, life keeps ticking over.

anyhoo, only said it was a possibility; they may well reappoint the existing members and the only impact will be a short delay (barrett said end of june now at earliest)

this was an interesting piece on the machinations behind the 'blackest day' presser.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/how-labor-hijacked-sports-bosses-at-organised-crime-and-drugs-in-sport-report-press-conference/story-e6freuy9-1226580675107

[Green Demon 822]

I disagree that changing the personnel nobbles the investigation. incoming governments do it all the time with departmental and agency heads, life keeps ticking over.

anyhoo, only said it was a possibility; they may well reappoint the existing members and the only impact will be a short delay (barrett said end of june now at earliest)

this was an interesting piece on the machinations behind the 'blackest day' presser.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/how-labor-hijacked-sports-bosses-at-organised-crime-and-drugs-in-sport-report-press-conference/story-e6freuy9-1226580675107

I don't doubt that the Labor Government used the drugs in sport for their own purposes.

However, Cronulla and Essendon are two of the biggest clubs in the two of the most popular sports in the country. Therefore, history will show that there was substance to the "Blackest day".

I believe that those two clubs are the tip of the ice berg. Where there is money/glory/power, there will be corruption and cheating. There were probably a lot of 'supplement' programs suspended that day.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I disagree that changing the personnel nobbles the investigation. incoming governments do it all the time with departmental and agency heads, life keeps ticking over.

anyhoo, only said it was a possibility; they may well reappoint the existing members and the only impact will be a short delay (barrett said end of june now at earliest)

this was an interesting piece on the machinations behind the 'blackest day' presser.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/how-labor-hijacked-sports-bosses-at-organised-crime-and-drugs-in-sport-report-press-conference/story-e6freuy9-1226580675107

You are correct about Governments changing personnel. But if they chose to do that at this 11th hour to ASADA then it would represent interference on due process at a critical time. And FWIW, the panel constituents seem impressive in their skill sets and experience. The reality is likely to be an embarrassing avoidable administrative bungle in not contracting panel members whose contracts had expired.

And who would have thought a politically impartial, fine upstanding quality journal like the Daily Tele would attack the Labor Party....wow

[Grapeviney 9,695]

I don't doubt that the Labor Government used the drugs in sport for their own purposes.

However, Cronulla and Essendon are two of the biggest clubs in the two of the most popular sports in the country. Therefore, history will show that there was substance to the "Blackest day".

I believe that those two clubs are the tip of the ice berg. Where there is money/glory/power, there will be corruption and cheating. There were probably a lot of 'supplement' programs suspended that day.

I don't deny there was substance to it - I guess we are arguing over just how much.

There's been no evidence / action on match-fixing, or the involvement of organised crime, and the doping saga was basically confined to one club each from just two of the five sporting codes represented that day.

We can speculate all we like about the possibility of corruption and cheating - and we know that it has happened in cricket - but without proof it's hard to ascertain just how 'black' the 'blackest day in sport' was.

And who would have thought a politically impartial, fine upstanding quality journal like the Daily Tele would attack the Labor Party....wow

If you think Rupert's henchmen were the only ones to question the motives behind that press conference then - in your words - "wow"..

Here's another quote from ASADA a week or two after the presser:

Last Friday ASADA Chief Executive Aurora Andruska released an official statement outlining how they expect to interview a total of 150 players, support staff and administrators from the two codes.

She later admitted to the Nine Network that the number of 150 was a guess. "I had a lot of pressure on me to say lots of sports stars were implicated in the drugs scandal and I thought 150 sounded like a good number."

Found that in the very partisan political journal The Roar: http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/02/23/was-acc-drug-report-our-darkest-day-or-just-handy-spin/

Edited April 11, 2014 by Grapeviney

[Grapeviney 9,695]

Reading the papers this morning it seems Dutton might not reappoint all the expired panel members; his office is claiming that a 4th has been added and that the panel can meet as a properly constituted quorum with just 3 members.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Not if the AFL has its way, I suspect.

I may be reading it the wrong way but the AFL has done some strange things lately which seem to almost undermine the outcome of the ASADA investigation. There was the recent publication of a paper in a British journal based on the interim report from August last year and now this - AFL ushers in new drugs code, officially banning controversial drug AOD-9604.

The AFL's new code seems calculated to serve as a support for the pro Essendon claim that these drugs were legal because their status was uncertain. By stating that AOD9604 is now banned, the AFL is giving credence to that argument because it was unnecessary to do so as WADA has already confirmed the S0 status of AOD.

The AFL has lots of motives for wanting this to go away, not the least of which would be the impact on the competition if infraction notices were served on the players and clubs involved.

this is exactly what I was saying many months back would happen. And everyone scoffed. even around last years trading period.

[dee-luded 2,959]

smacks of political interference

members were not re-contracted, replacements not available...............hmmmmm

whata you say DC???

[dee-luded 2,959]

The Attorney General at the time Jason Clare, had been in the job two weeks. The Eddie Obeid show from ICAC was front page every day and the Gvt was desperate to get him off it because Gillard wanted to name the election date.

Hence the Notorious all code press conference. Flippin disgrace.

Oh, like the Child Sexual Abuse Royal Commission.... lets hope this Royal Commission isn't quietened by the influx of recent royal commissions; crowding its news out in the future.

Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse (2013-present).... ALParty

Royal Commission into the Home Insulation Program (2013-present).... L-CParty

Royal Commission into trade union governance and corruption (2014-present).... L-CParty

Come on now Tony Abbott, commit a pledge to allow the Child Sexual Abuse Royal Commission to have ALL the Funds required to broaden the inquiry into the future, on an "As Needs" commitment.

Don't make budget excuses, to not Fund the continuing Child Sexual Abuse Royal Commission from thoroughly examining all institutional abuses, on an As Needs basis...

Without political interference &/or favouritism from minimising the Child Sexual Abuse Royal Commission's breadth.

[Whispering_Jack 29,731]

No, most likely an embarrassing oversight.

So you're ruling out the possibility of political interference working to derail the investigation?

[rumpole 514]

So you're ruling out the possibility of political interference working to derail the investigation?

Political interference?

Nah ... not possible.

[Whispering_Jack 29,731]

Patrick Smith slams the ineptitude of ASADA, the government, the AFL Commission and Demetriou over the handling of the investigation into the Essendon doping programme - ASADA hides behind the confidentiality cloak.

[pantaloons 2,019]

Patrick Smith slams the ineptitude of ASADA, the government, the AFL Commission and Demetriou over the handling of the investigation into the Essendon doping programme - ASADA hides behind the confidentiality cloak.

I couldn't open it, Jack, so I just have to assume that the Essendon supporter has written an article blaming everyone else for Essendon's rort.

[daisycutter 29,600]

Two articles by Samantha Lane in the rage today on ADRVP

Sports Minister Peter Dutton vows to restore antidoping panel

Government could have avoided ASADA fiasco

[Whispering_Jack 29,731]

I couldn't open it, Jack, so I just have to assume that the Essendon supporter has written an article blaming everyone else for Essendon's rort.

No Pants ... Smith hasn't been one of those Bomber groupies who have been cheerleaders for the club they support. In fact, I think he might have changed allegiances to Richmond after the Bombers knifed Matthew Knights in favour of Hird.

He gives everyone a whack including Demetriou and this is what he has to say about the government's part in the latest fiasco -

And now to the federal government and its sports department, run by its minister Peter Dutton. Dear God.

All evidence gathered by ASADA is assessed by the Anti-Doping Rule Violation Panel, an independent body appointed by the government. If the ADRVP considers the evidence damning then an athlete or support personnel can be placed on the register of findings.

Once that is done, the matter will come before the sports anti-doping tribunal, which will decide on penalty.

In the Dank case, all that was meant to happen on Thursday but the ineptitude of both ASADA and Duttons department meant the ADRVP could not be convened. The seven-member panel had been reduced to just three because contracts for four had not been extended.

While three members can hear a case, it must at all times have at least a total of four able to sit.

More embarrassingly, the government said there was a fourth member appointed, but just who that person was it was unwilling or unable to provide a name.

So the ASADA-Dank case went unheard, giving Dank ­another chance to give the whole investigative process another warranted whack.

The biggest scandal in Australian sport history can now be characterised another two ways: the most mortifying and the most feeble.

And all of us are funding it. A nation has not been doped but duped.

He doesn't give Essendon the touch up it deserves over this but that's not what this article's about.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If you think Rupert's henchmen were the only ones to question the motives behind that press conference then - in your words - "wow"..

Here's another quote from ASADA a week or two after the presser:

Last Friday ASADA Chief Executive Aurora Andruska released an official statement outlining how they expect to interview a total of 150 players, support staff and administrators from the two codes.She later admitted to the Nine Network that the number of 150 was a guess. "I had a lot of pressure on me to say lots of sports stars were implicated in the drugs scandal and I thought 150 sounded like a good number."

Found that in the very partisan political journal The Roar: http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/02/23/was-acc-drug-report-our-darkest-day-or-just-handy-spin/

*sigh*

I never said that about Murdoch. It's just that particular paper is hardly an impartial judge off political issues given it's insidious record

And the ACC launched an ASADA unprecedented investigation into two clubs/codes concurrently. As an event confronting a resource strained Govt body like ASADA, this ACC report was a tsunami of a project. I don't blame Andruska expressing uncertainty at the magnitude of what was involved.

[rumpole 514]

*sigh*

I never said that about Murdoch. It's just that particular paper is hardly an impartial judge off political issues given it's insidious record

And the ACC launched an ASADA unprecedented investigation into two clubs/codes concurrently. As an event confronting a resource strained Govt body like ASADA, this ACC report was a tsunami of a project. I don't blame Andruska expressing uncertainty at the magnitude of what was involved.

She wouldn't have been counting on the shameful amateurism of the AFL in the way it sought to engineer an outcome with the preservation of its competition at the forefront or of the bungling (and perhaps worse, it's meddling) of the government.

Dank is feigning anger about the latest farce involving the lack of an ADRVP quorum ATM but I suspect that he's quietly laughing out of the side of his face. The delay will bring temporary respite to him, Essendon, Hird & co and the players but in the end, it's only going to further drag out the pain.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

She wouldn't have been counting on the shameful amateurism of the AFL in the way it sought to engineer an outcome with the preservation of its competition at the forefront or of the bungling (and perhaps worse, it's meddling) of the government.

Dank is feigning anger about the latest farce involving the lack of an ADRVP quorum ATM but I suspect that he's quietly laughing out of the side of his face. The delay will bring temporary respite to him, Essendon, Hird & co and the players but in the end, it's only going to further drag out the pain.

Notwithstanding the lack of resources at hand, it was an error for ASADA to have agreed to perform an early joint investigation with the AFL.

I agree about dragging out the pain but Duttons farcical oversight just undermines confidence in the process particularly when the seven member panel appeared ably qualified and experienced.

[rumpole 514]

Notwithstanding the lack of resources at hand, it was an error for ASADA to have agreed to perform an early joint investigation with the AFL.

I agree about dragging out the pain but Duttons farcical oversight just undermines confidence in the process particularly when the seven member panel appeared ably qualified and experienced.

Point 1 (AFL) - this is what I and many others have been saying for some time.

Point 2 (Dutton) - it's certainly being painted as an "oversight" at the moment but I will reserve my judgement until I know more about how this all happened at such a crucial time in the saga and if there are going to be replacements, who they are. Forgive me for my cynicism but I have prior experience in dealing with government departments.

[Chelly 810]

I reckon that whatever juice Essendon might or might not have been on started wearing off yesterday afternoon at Subiaco.