Your point about 2 years is moot for that very reason RPFC. So why pivot on it.

Davey is like a handful currently...teetering on the edge of purposeful requirement. In order to bring others in , and on you need space.

Where does space come from but for removing the deadwood and/or underperformers. You cant have you one -yearers and eat the cake too. There has to be players moved on

Some might say you keep a bird in the hand for that 2 year in the bush so to speak but if you really arent going to play them and if they arent requisite to a finals tilt then thatr nasty old sign lights up....you know "GAME OVER "

just thought id go revisit the notion as put forward in the OP. Here we see a need possibly for 12 slots, but im not sure that is necessary this year.

After last years broom we might see only around 9-10 changed over. Some that might have been goners will stay if for only contractual impediments.

as per OP , but ammended to give weight to the likelys its from MacDonald, Gillies, Jetta, Davis, Sellar, Davey, Nicholson, Tynan, Taggert, and possibly Magner and Couch. id add Bail to that list . Ive liked Bail but hes not impacting and not lighting fires. He may have used up his time,.. might have.

Depending on trades we might solve a few with tw0-fers...i.e two out and one in in some trading combo.

I suppose much will of course rest with the incoming coach's view on players. It has been accorded to Roos that he thought in the main we had an OK list. Be interesting to see who goes and who stays in that case

tic toc tic toc

I am just saying that forward planning is important when it comes to list management and getting rid of every player you think is a 'clogger' is poor planning for the next year when you still have to clear players.

Sorry to 'pivot' on it...

  On 11/07/2013 at 03:31, rpfc said:

I never called it fact. I am telling you that when teenagers get picked up they get an automatic 2 year contract.

And what that means is that if you have 10 list 'cloggers' and you replace them all in one go through the draft with teenagers then you will not be able to move them the following year.

It removes flexibility. Whereas, if you did choose to keep someone on your list for one year more over Teenage Pick 85 - you can delist that player a year later.

Why do you expect to get pick 22, is that for Sylvia or a PP?

We essentially agree rp

I just think Daveys time might be up (again)

I fully concur with notion of parallel requirements but often you need to trisl 2 kids to get one good. This goes back to space and where some currently are situated with regard 'need'

Thats all, well my spin at least

Alright, here's my 'on the edge' list. There is of course a lot of time between now and the end of the season - Jamar and Davey could both lift back to strong form.

Also, I'm not completely sure about contract status for a few - thought maybe Rodan was given two years?

Davey, Jamar, Dunn, Rodan, Byrnes, MacDonald, Sellar, Spencer and Gillies are all to my mind not able to deliver a high enough standard often enough to justify holding them instead of bringing in a new draftee. Feels a but harsh on some, for sure.

Pederson with his multi-year deal gets to be defensive depth.

Some young guys have been given grace since it is probably not ideal to keep cutting when 9 are already on that roll. By this point it is a matter of 'how much will be get from them compared to pick 154, and do they have growth potential'.

Hogan comes onto the official list, of course. Then it's midfielders midfielder aaaand midfielders. Plus a speculative or mature-age ruckman or two, given that with 'just' Clarke, Gawn and Fitzpatrick filling the role at the moment, we would not want there to be a fluke gap. Similarly, no harm in cycling a hard-working tall defender through the bottom end of the draft.

Let's imagine six midfielders, two of whom are 'ready to go' at some reasonably AFL standard. That's a good help for 2014.

My take:

Delisted:

Troy Davis

Josh Tynan

Tom Couch

James Magner

David Rodan

Tom Gillies

Joel Macdonald

Daniel Nicholson

Contract Extensions:

Jack Watts - 3 years

Colin Sylvia - 3 years

Max Gawn - 2 years

Jack Fitzpatrick - 2 years

Rory Taggert - 2 years

James Sellar - 1 year

Aaron Davey - 1 year

Rookies:

James Magner - Delisted

Tom Couch - Delisted

Nathan Stark - 2nd year on

Mitch Clisby - Elevated

Trades:

1. Luke Tapscott + Pick 19 (Melb) - Taylor Adams (GWS)

2. Pick 36 (Melb) - Tom Bell + Pick (79-81) (Carlton)

Free Agency:

Daniel Cross (Western Bulldogs)

U17 Upgrade:

Jesse Hogan

National Draft: (Order not taking into account compo picks)

#2 - Dom Sheed (Western Australia - Subiaco)

#54 - Dayle Garlett (WAFL - Swan Districts)

#72 - PASS

#79-81 - PASS (I know, why get it in the first place!)

#90 - PASS

PSD:

PASS

Rookie Draft

#2 - Sam Darley (GWS)

#19 - Josh Tynan (Melb)

#37 - Shane Nelson (WAFL - West Perth)

Dont care what they do just get rid of Nicholson Can somebody tell me why he is picked this weekend

  On 11/07/2013 at 10:37, ClarkKent said:

My take:

Delisted:

Troy Davis

Josh Tynan

Tom Couch

James Magner

David Rodan

Tom Gillies

Joel Macdonald

Daniel Nicholson

Contract Extensions:

Jack Watts - 3 years

Colin Sylvia - 3 years

Max Gawn - 2 years

Jack Fitzpatrick - 2 years

Rory Taggert - 2 years

James Sellar - 1 year

Aaron Davey - 1 year

Rookies:

James Magner - Delisted

Tom Couch - Delisted

Nathan Stark - 2nd year on

Mitch Clisby - Elevated

Trades:

1. Luke Tapscott + Pick 19 (Melb) - Taylor Adams (GWS)

2. Pick 36 (Melb) - Tom Bell + Pick (79-81) (Carlton)

Free Agency:

Daniel Cross (Western Bulldogs)

U17 Upgrade:

Jesse Hogan

National Draft: (Order not taking into account compo picks)

#2 - Dom Sheed (Western Australia - Subiaco)

#54 - Dayle Garlett (WAFL - Swan Districts)

#72 - PASS

#79-81 - PASS (I know, why get it in the first place!)

#90 - PASS

PSD:

PASS

Rookie Draft

#2 - Sam Darley (GWS)

#19 - Josh Tynan (Melb)

#37 - Shane Nelson (WAFL - West Perth)

Taggert Tynan why

??

  On 11/07/2013 at 07:27, mjt said:

Why do you expect to get pick 22, is that for Sylvia or a PP?

I assume that would be the FA compo.

Goddard got a first round pick. I reckon Sylvia would net a second rounder.

ClarkKent - That is an interesting game plan.

Adams for Pick 19 and Tapscott is ok, assuming they both want to move.

Bell for 36 is tougher to swallow.

I have a rule that there is 40-50 kids worth picking every year as they can bring something straight away that is AFL standard. I would be very reticent to spend that on a journey man not long removed from the VFL.

Cross would be a good move if he is keen.

I think the careers of a couple of boys may hinge on our success in FA and whether we get any draft assistance.

Im curious as to the input and colour ( sts ) that Jason Taylor will add to this years selections.

Ive been trying to discern a style that he has aided in contributions to the Collingwood list but must confess am just going in circles.

Anyone with greater knowledge of this man care to comment as to what he would be looking for ?

  On 11/07/2013 at 10:37, ClarkKent said:

My take:

Delisted:

Troy Davis

Josh Tynan

Tom Couch

James Magner

David Rodan

Tom Gillies

Joel Macdonald

Daniel Nicholson

Contract Extensions:

Jack Watts - 3 years

Colin Sylvia - 3 years

Max Gawn - 2 years

Jack Fitzpatrick - 2 years

Rory Taggert - 2 years

James Sellar - 1 year

Aaron Davey - 1 year

Rookies:

James Magner - Delisted

Tom Couch - Delisted

Nathan Stark - 2nd year on

Mitch Clisby - Elevated

Trades:

1. Luke Tapscott + Pick 19 (Melb) - Taylor Adams (GWS)

2. Pick 36 (Melb) - Tom Bell + Pick (79-81) (Carlton)

Free Agency:

Daniel Cross (Western Bulldogs)

U17 Upgrade:

Jesse Hogan

National Draft: (Order not taking into account compo picks)

#2 - Dom Sheed (Western Australia - Subiaco)

#54 - Dayle Garlett (WAFL - Swan Districts)

#72 - PASS

#79-81 - PASS (I know, why get it in the first place!)

#90 - PASS

PSD:

PASS

Rookie Draft

#2 - Sam Darley (GWS)

#19 - Josh Tynan (Melb)

#37 - Shane Nelson (WAFL - West Perth)

Pleased that somebody agrees that we should keep Davey who is a good leader, loyal Clubman and still can produce some exciting goals. Not sure that we should disqualify overselves from the pre-season draft again as that is the reason that we missed on Hannath, despite taking him to Darwin.

i am continually amazed so many people on here keep bringing Daniel Cross' name up. Why?

He is everything we don't need, slow, unskillfull, past his best.

I would prefer to stick with Magner for another season while Viney,Toumpas and our 1st pick from the upcoming draft continue to develop

Get rid of Sellar, how can you suggest we keep him, come on

Why would you keep drop mark Sellar? Absolutely useless player. Magner shows a lot more promise but still a spud dud. The only players worth keeping are Sylvia, Davey, Howe, Fitzpatrick, Terlich, Blease, Frawley, Grimes, Dawes, Hogan, Watts, jones, jones. The rest are VFL players.

  On 14/07/2013 at 13:08, Demon31 said:

Why would you keep drop mark Sellar? Absolutely useless player. Magner shows a lot more promise but still a spud dud. The only players worth keeping are Sylvia, Davey, Howe, Fitzpatrick, Terlich, Blease, Frawley, Grimes, Dawes, Hogan, Watts, jones, jones. The rest are VFL players.

Trengove, Gawn, Toumpas, Garland, McDonald, Clisby, Kent, Viney?

That would make a decent VFL team...

Im just wondering in regard to Pedersen just how water-tight his contract might be ?

Might there not be performance kpi's to meet etc. Id be interested to know if there is a get out clause or such for us.

Surely we cant just have to carry this spud for another 2 years...surely not

That or is his contract on a fairly low base . If so it might just be worth paying him out.

It will depend a lot on new coach and a little on whether we get a priority selection - if we do that's an extra pick we'll have to make room for.

I have eight gone and six waiting on what happens in next six weeks

Gone: Gillies, Davis, Jetta, Rodan, Sellar, Macdonald, Bail and one of Byrnes or Davey.

The reason for one of Byrnes or Davey to go is that we now have an obvious left-foot quick player in Kent who plays the same role. Byrnes has a contract (you are allowed to break them) and Davey has emotional ties (club great), but I'm sorry but list management requires one to go.

Possibly gone:

Tynan (he still is really young and hopefully we can see where he truly is at, in VFL finals)

Taggert (a lot of people like him but as with Tynan will need to show he's worth keeping in VFL finals)

Strauss (he's in his fifth year and he still hasn't bulked up - he's no Jed Adcock running out of back line).

Nicho and McKenzie (a new coach may decide their kicking skills aren't up to it, even though they are both good training role model).

One of Jamar, Gawn or Fitzy (Jamar's contracted but if Clark looks like being fit, then Fitzy won't get a game and we have too many ruckmen - we should actually trade one of these guys when they have currency.) Spencer has kicked on and looks the strongest and hardest working and needs to kept now.

Dunn - He's been around a long time now, so I suspect he'll survive another year.

Rookie upgrades

One of Magner or Couch should be rewarded for their two years of hard work. Both have kicking and pace limitations but are great trainers and one should be kept to help protect youngsters and I'd go for Magner.

Clisby can be upgraded next season.

By my reckoning we should delist eight, trade one ruckman and upgrade one (Magner) and Hogan is included as well.

That would leave us seven picks at main draft (with one pick saved for pre-season draft) and three rookies (Stark and Couch out, Clisby retained).

Draft priority on mids and if possible a long-kicking running defender.

  On 15/07/2013 at 06:58, belzebub59 said:

Im just wondering in regard to Pedersen just how water-tight his contract might be ?

Might there not be performance kpi's to meet etc. Id be interested to know if there is a get out clause or such for us.

Surely we cant just have to carry this spud for another 2 years...surely not

That or is his contract on a fairly low base . If so it might just be worth paying him out.

You have my vote bb

and send off who thought he was good enough for a three year deal.

Then again he might have already gone!

Pederson is not a spud! He may not make it at AFL level, but any decision on that issue is slightly premature. He is young enough to be improved by astute coaching. This is what I know from observation... He can take an overhead grab, he can kick a sausage roll. He can assist as a ruckman. He does have length in his kicking. He can run and carry. I'm persevering at this stage and am not agonising over another year on the list.

  On 15/07/2013 at 09:10, waynewussell said:

Pederson is not a spud! He may not make it at AFL level,

with all due respect...you should have stopped here

he was signed on to do just that, play AFL. If not....potato potato potato !!!!

  On 06/07/2013 at 02:49, AdamFarr said:

I think the delisting of someone like Davey would depend on who we're looking at replacing him with (the essence of your post, rpfc). It seems obvious but unless the player in an upgrade on Davey, I'd be keeping him. His skills are still excellent, he just doesn't get enough of it and has lost some pace. I'd be keeping Sellar for depth as well personally.

  On 09/07/2013 at 10:10, rpfc said:

I will just throw out something for all those that bemoan 'list cloggers': if you have to replace someone with no future (a clogger) at the club with Teenage Pick 85, you have to keep that Teenage Pick 85 for two years. Whereas you could have kept that 'clogger' for one year and moved him on then.

Digest that.

This is the same mentality that got rid of all our senior players and left us with no leaders or mentors. You can't just dump all the senior leaders and bring in fresh kids with no examples to follow and no older wiser heads to show the way. Sellar however does NOT add depth apart from the deep holes that the ball makes when he drops every mark.

  On 15/07/2013 at 08:40, Deespicable said:

It will depend a lot on new coach and a little on whether we get a priority selection - if we do that's an extra pick we'll have to make room for.

I have eight gone and six waiting on what happens in next six weeks

Gone: Gillies, Davis, Jetta, Rodan, Sellar, Macdonald, Bail and one of Byrnes or Davey.

The reason for one of Byrnes or Davey to go is that we now have an obvious left-foot quick player in Kent who plays the same role. Byrnes has a contract (you are allowed to break them) and Davey has emotional ties (club great), but I'm sorry but list management requires one to go.

Possibly gone:

Tynan (he still is really young and hopefully we can see where he truly is at, in VFL finals)

Taggert (a lot of people like him but as with Tynan will need to show he's worth keeping in VFL finals)

Strauss (he's in his fifth year and he still hasn't bulked up - he's no Jed Adcock running out of back line).

Nicho and McKenzie (a new coach may decide their kicking skills aren't up to it, even though they are both good training role model).

One of Jamar, Gawn or Fitzy (Jamar's contracted but if Clark looks like being fit, then Fitzy won't get a game and we have too many ruckmen - we should actually trade one of these guys when they have currency.) Spencer has kicked on and looks the strongest and hardest working and needs to kept now.

Dunn - He's been around a long time now, so I suspect he'll survive another year.

Rookie upgrades

One of Magner or Couch should be rewarded for their two years of hard work. Both have kicking and pace limitations but are great trainers and one should be kept to help protect youngsters and I'd go for Magner.

Clisby can be upgraded next season.

By my reckoning we should delist eight, trade one ruckman and upgrade one (Magner) and Hogan is included as well.

That would leave us seven picks at main draft (with one pick saved for pre-season draft) and three rookies (Stark and Couch out, Clisby retained).Fitzpatrick is a way better player than the other potential talls. Don't get rid if him.

Draft priority on mids and if possible a long-kicking running defender.

.Fitzpatrick is a way better player than the other potential talls. Don't get rid of him. The two games before Geelong he showed he is a real player.