Jimmy Toumpas

[Je Roos Salem 661]

In case you didn't watch the game, Toumpas was spare because North kept setting up with an extra man back. That's where they get their run and drive from the back fifty.

I'd say the reason Toump was used as spare man is because if the other guys could get the ball into his hands, we'd actually have a good chance at hitting up a target coming out of defense instead of kicking long to a pack.

I was at the game, and noticed Toumpas' intentions were rarely to move the ball forward with a decent kick. Not entirely his fault, since others do it too and since the team's been taught that's a good tactic this year, but it seemed like a tactic to just get him the ball and give him experience as opposed to a team enhancing one, which would've been to put Grimes back who has actually played defence well in the past and couldn't find the ball whilst following it all day

[Sambo06 222]

I was at the game, and noticed Toumpas' intentions were rarely to move the ball forward with a decent kick. Not entirely his fault, since others do it too and since the team's been taught that's a good tactic this year, but it seemed like a tactic to just get him the ball and give him experience as opposed to a team enhancing one, which would've been to put Grimes back who has actually played defence well in the past and couldn't find the ball whilst following it all day

Had you been watching closely, options forward of centre were very rare NA. When I watch footy I have found it pays to watch the ball carrier closely and then look upfield to see what options are available to him. The defenders on the weekend weren't great, but when ever they got the ball, North's pressure up the ground continually cut off all options. Going sideways was basically all we open to us. Our off the ball running was virtually non existent. On occasions when we did have options, our disposal let us down. This did not include the Toump. He hit up every target, unlike some of his more experienced team mate.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Had you been watching closely, options forward of centre were very rare NA. When I watch footy I have found it pays to watch the ball carrier closely and then look upfield to see what options are available to him. The defenders on the weekend weren't great, but when ever they got the ball, North's pressure up the ground continually cut off all options. Going sideways was basically all we open to us. Our off the ball running was virtually non existent. On occasions when we did have options, our disposal let us down. This did not include the Toump. He hit up every target, unlike some of his more experienced team mate.

I understand our lack of movement up field, he just didn't show enough dare or passion to impress me (looking backwards instinctively, indecision). I won't be quick to praise Toumpas on the basis that he's quite a good kick and can run around quite well; based on what I've seen this year he's been mostly disappointing and has shown huge flaws like awareness, a contested game and decision making (such as having a chance to kick a goal in the pocket but second guessing himself and panicking). He's shown a couple of glimpses, mainly V Sydney and Geelong but not enough. Hopefully he's a confidence player and that once the Neeld storm settles he finds more desire, flair and consistency. Just doesn't impress me very much and looks like another under performing first round pick

[Sambo06 222]

I understand our lack of movement up field, he just didn't show enough dare or passion to impress me (looking backwards instinctively, indecision). I won't be quick to praise Toumpas on the basis that he's quite a good kick and can run around quite well; based on what I've seen this year he's been mostly disappointing and has shown huge flaws like awareness, a contested game and decision making (such as having a chance to kick a goal in the pocket but second guessing himself and panicking). He's shown a couple of glimpses, mainly V Sydney and Geelong but not enough. Hopefully he's a confidence player and that once the Neeld storm settles he finds more desire, flair and consistency. Just doesn't impress me very much and looks like another under performing first round pick

Sorry NA, completely disagree with you, but it's ok to not agree. To play well, as you rightly pointed out, against Sydney (current Premiers) and Geelong( Equal favourites for this year & wet, hard slog), shows he does have the desire. He has the flair as well, showcased by some of his elite kicking across field that i have seen from him in a few of his games. Absolutely needs to show us more of it though, i agree. Yes, consistency is an issue with Jimmy right now, but show me ANY first year player that has had that? Passion is the scuffle with Boomer and getting involved with helping his mates out. A lesson some of our more experienced players should heed. I implore you NA, to look again at the replays if you still have them. I'm not denying he has some issues to sort out, but I'm not worried. Toumpas has shown enough to suggest he will be a very good servant of our Club for many many years to come.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Sorry NA, completely disagree with you, but it's ok to not agree. To play well, as you rightly pointed out, against Sydney (current Premiers) and Geelong( Equal favourites for this year & wet, hard slog), shows he does have the desire. He has the flair as well, showcased by some of his elite kicking across field that i have seen from him in a few of his games. Absolutely needs to show us more of it though, i agree. Yes, consistency is an issue with Jimmy right now, but show me ANY first year player that has had that? Passion is the scuffle with Boomer and getting involved with helping his mates out. A lesson some of our more experienced players should heed. I implore you NA, to look again at the replays if you still have them. I'm not denying he has some issues to sort out, but I'm not worried. Toumpas has shown enough to suggest he will be a very good servant of our Club for many many years to come.

The Harvey incident did show passion, true. I'm just over this waiting game as a Melbourne supporter, of course he may become a fantastic player in two years or whatever, whoever may be his teammates then, but I'm just going to judge him on what I've seen him, an AFL footballer, do so far rather than make excuses as to why he hasn't done what he can apparently do. I understand some people feel a connection with him and think he represents the future and he'll be a 200 game player etc. That's great- we've heard it all before! Us, as Melbourne supporters should now know that it's difficult to forecast the future. I'd rather analyse things as they happen and gather my own understanding rather than take a blind faith approach with every decision the club makes. Our team is a horrible unit for Toumpas to prosper in. But that doesn't mean I can't point out his shortcomings, as I and others do with other players who are responsible for beltings most weeks.

As for first year players (midfielders) with consistency (or a considerable amount more), Tom Mitchell, Jaeger O'Meara, Brad Crouch and Wines are all good examples

Edited July 30, 2013 by Neeld Aniher

[Sambo06 222]

As for first year players (midfielders) with consistency (or a considerable amount more), Tom Mitchell, Jaeger O'Meara, Brad Crouch and Wines are all good examples

All of the above have been at their Clubs for 2 Pre Seasons except for Ollie, who has had no injury concerns in the last couple of years and will also be a gun not withstanding his recent, inconsistent form. Mitchell is into his second year and O'Meara and Crouch went as mini draft picks to their respective clubs. They have had 2 AFL pre seasons under their belts (same as our Rising Star, Jesse Hogan is now getting). They were poor examples mate.

[Pennant St Dee 13,403]

The Harvey incident did show passion, true. I'm just over this waiting game as a Melbourne supporter, of course he may become a fantastic player in two years or whatever, whoever may be his teammates then, but I'm just going to judge him on what I've seen him, an AFL footballer, do so far rather than make excuses as to why he hasn't done what he can apparently do. I understand some people feel a connection with him and think he represents the future and he'll be a 200 game player etc. That's great- we've heard it all before! Us, as Melbourne supporters should now know that it's difficult to forecast the future. I'd rather analyse things as they happen and gather my own understanding rather than take a blind faith approach with every decision the club makes. Our team is a horrible unit for Toumpas to prosper in. But that doesn't mean I can't point out his shortcomings, as I and others do with other players who are responsible for beltings most weeks.

As for first year players (midfielders) with consistency (or a considerable amount more), Tom Mitchell, Jaeger O'Meara, Brad Crouch and Wines are all good examples

Tom Mitchell - plays alongside O'Keefe, Jack, Hanneberry, Kennedy, McVeigh, Bolton & Mcglynn

O'Meara - Ablett,Bennell & Prestia

Crouch - Thompson, Dangerfield, Mckay, Sloane, Vince & Van Berlo

Wines - Ebert, Boak, Hartlett, Wingard & Cornes

I don't think I need to say anything else

[old dee 24,003]

Tom Mitchell - plays alongside O'Keefe, Jack, Hanneberry, Kennedy, McVeigh, Bolton & Mcglynn

O'Meara - Ablett,Bennell & Prestia

Crouch - Thompson, Dangerfield, Mckay, Sloane, Vince & Van Berlo

Wines - Ebert, Boak, Hartlett, Wingard & Cornes

I don't think I need to say anything else

No that covers it.

Close the thread Mods

Edited July 31, 2013 by old dee

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Tom Mitchell - plays alongside O'Keefe, Jack, Hanneberry, Kennedy, McVeigh, Bolton & Mcglynn

O'Meara - Ablett,Bennell & Prestia

Crouch - Thompson, Dangerfield, Mckay, Sloane, Vince & Van Berlo

Wines - Ebert, Boak, Hartlett, Wingard & Cornes

I don't think I need to say anything else

I didn't say there weren't contributing factors, just merely correcting the previous post by using examples of consistent first year players

[Sambo06 222]

NA, you don't read anything that dismisses your flimsy arguments do you. Only one (Ollie Wines) of all the players you mentioned are actually true, first year players.

[titan_uranus 25,176]

I didn't say there weren't contributing factors, just merely correcting the previous post by using examples of consistent first year players

Unfortunately, those 'contributing factors' include such minor things as the fact that Mitchell is a second year player.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

A fair comparison for Tom Mitchell would be Jack Viney next year.

I'd expect Jack Viney will be doing what Mitchell is doing now - next year.

[LegsLeoncelli 162]

A fair comparison for Tom Mitchell would be Jack Viney next year.

I'd expect Jack Viney will be doing what Mitchell is doing now - next year.

That's deep.

[baysidedave 246]

The Harvey incident did show passion, true. I'm just over this waiting game as a Melbourne supporter, of course he may become a fantastic player in two years or whatever, whoever may be his teammates then, but I'm just going to judge him on what I've seen him, an AFL footballer, do so far rather than make excuses as to why he hasn't done what he can apparently do. I understand some people feel a connection with him and think he represents the future and he'll be a 200 game player etc. That's great- we've heard it all before! Us, as Melbourne supporters should now know that it's difficult to forecast the future. I'd rather analyse things as they happen and gather my own understanding rather than take a blind faith approach with every decision the club makes. Our team is a horrible unit for Toumpas to prosper in. But that doesn't mean I can't point out his shortcomings, as I and others do with other players who are responsible for beltings most weeks.

As for first year players (midfielders) with consistency (or a considerable amount more), Tom Mitchell, Jaeger O'Meara, Brad Crouch and Wines are all good examples

he's played about 10 games and he's 18 years old you dropkick plus he's playing in the worst team in the game since 90's Fitzroy.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

He has shown patches of absolute class, for a ten game player in such a poor midfield he is showing quite abit in his better games imo, very confident he will be a player in the future

[Je Roos Salem 661]

he's played about 10 games and he's 18 years old you dropkick plus he's playing in the worst team in the game since 90's Fitzroy.

He is, but please, I follow the team as close as anyone and it's clear people are overrating him based on what he's done so far. Think of all our recent draft failures, surely it's a bit ambitious to suggest a 200-game future for the club? I don't think he's really cemented a spot in our best 22 but where we're at I'm probably happy to see what he has to offer for the rest of the season. His first few games were certainly a poor start to his career, effort wise, plus he melted under pressure, whereas Viney immediately asserted himself. He's improved a bit and has shown signs of class and hardness since but by no means have I seen signs of stardom and I think to call him an "elite" user of the ball is a bit much

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

He is, but please, I follow the team as close as anyone and it's clear people are overrating him based on what he's done so far. Think of all our recent draft failures, surely it's a bit ambitious to suggest a 200-game future for the club? I don't think he's really cemented a spot in our best 22 but where we're at I'm probably happy to see what he has to offer for the rest of the season. His first few games were certainly a poor start to his career, effort wise, plus he melted under pressure, whereas Viney immediately asserted himself. He's improved a bit and has shown signs of class and hardness since but by no means have I seen signs of stardom and I think to call him an "elite" user of the ball is a bit much

Are you serious? the kids played 10 games, on average it takes about three years so that's 66 games before a player really feels comfortable at AFL level, and he is playing in a team that is struggling big time, the idea that anyone can make an accurate judgement of any of our young players is abit silly. Watch the replay of the game against Geelong like i just did, you will feel much better about us drafting this young man.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Are you serious? the kids played 10 games, on average it takes about three years so that's 66 games before a player really feels comfortable at AFL level, and he is playing in a team that is struggling big time, the idea that anyone can make an accurate judgement of any of our young players is abit silly. Watch the replay of the game against Geelong like i just did, you will feel much better about us drafting this young man.

It is pretty silly, but I'm giving it my best shot. That sort of attitude doesn't really work both ways though, because players who've had very good first years (eg. Scully, Trengove even Morton) are generally perceived to be stars of the future that will only improve. Just based on what i've seen so far, Toumpas I haven't had a great feeling about, whereas Viney I have mostly admired and he's fit in well. Some of it with Toumpas seems to be structural, as I don't think our game plan has helped his development and he doesn't really seem to have a position. As much as I detest to re-watching one of our worst games and worst spectacles of all time (in which was I soaked through the skin at the ground) i'm having a look at it now. A breakthrough game, such as Viney's in Round 1 (should've gotten Rising star nomination) , clearly hasn't come though

Edited August 1, 2013 by Neeld Aniher

[low flying Robbo 979]

I like the kid.

He had me at the part he played in the Harlem Shake video

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Why does Melbourne keeping taking risks with first round draft picks?

We went for icing when most of us were crying out for a cake.

[DeeZee 7,445]

Pathetic again today, no skill, slow brain.

[rjay 25,307]

My biggest concern with Jimmy is that I've yet to see him kick a ball more that 30mtrs, he continually chips the ball around. This is good old SA footy at it's best and one reason why we need Roos or Eade as coach next year and not Craig or Williams.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

MFC like soft players.

I'd float Toumpas up for trade at years end.

I don't care what anyone says, I see nothing in Toumpas or Trengove, nothing.

When we are in desperate need for footballers, the club drafts Strauss, Gysberts, Cook and then Toumpas.

WE NEED FOOTBALLERS for christs sakes!!!

That is what is wrong with this club, we are still paying for messing up those picks..

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

MFC like soft players.

I'd float Toumpas up for trade at years end.

I don't care what anyone says, I see nothing in Toumpas or Trengove, nothing.

When we are in desperate need for footballers, the club drafts Strauss, Gysberts, Cook and then Toumpas.

WE NEED FOOTBALLERS for christs sakes!!!

That is what is wrong with this club, we are still paying for messing up those picks..

I agree.

[Theo 276]

I agree.

It doesn't matter who the coach is. The recruitment decisions and the lack of development is killing this club.