you can kinda look at the pro's list and i think that makes the decision pretty easy

Toumpas:

*quick

*elite skills

*leader

*already played senior footy

*balanced out drafting viney well

*considered by many to be nearly on par with whitfield

*huge upside

*Big game player ( just about best on in the SANFL gf the year before drafted )

Wines

*tough inside mid

*solid skills ( not fantastic by any measure

*leader

*ready to go

* already had a more highly rated inside mid in Viney, plus N.jones

*hard to judge the upside of these blokes, he is already good but he might not get drastically better.

in summery imo we made the correct call, i think wines will be a very good player, but i think toumpas will be a better player in time, keep in mind wines is doing well in a much better midfield group, toumpas is in possibly the worst AFL team of all time so it's really unfair to say they are on level footing on that alone, but i would say the game toumpas played against Geelong was as good or better than anything Wines has produced this year.

anyways just my opinion

There is no comparison between Wines or Toumpas.

People get caught up in draft positions, but Wines was head and shoulders above Toumpas in 2012 under 18's and still is.

Nothing changes and players don't miraculously become better because they were picked top 3.

We should get away from these comparisons when it comes to Wines Vs Toumpas and just let their results speak for themselves.

I agree with one of the above posters about the MFC picking mentally weak kids, I guess we should be grateful that Viney was father son,

but he is the opposite type of player that the MFC draft.

I've seen him present well in defense and try to start or engineer play.

HOWEVER it is clear that he is a pretty emotional guy. It will take him time to stop feeling pressure and relax into the roll. I'd guess that we'll see a steady improvement for 1-3 years and then a marked improvement 4-6 years from now. Like Garland. The problem with emotional types is that they make decisions when 'emotional'. Too much emotion = not great decisions. Not necessarily evident as a junior because the environment = less demanding.

And yes, all of this is evident on testing and tests are made available to afl clubs post draft camp.

Totally agree, Tim. And the fact that he is playing in a midfield bereft of talent and leadership cannot be underestimated.

Totally agree, Tim. And the fact that he is playing in a midfield bereft of talent and leadership cannot be underestimated.

Adding to that, we seem to have a hell of a lot of work to do in working together as a unit - I personally don't see a lot of acts of camaraderie on the field between the midfielders. Just pulling each other up at a stoppage, putting off a tagger physically or general talk to each other in play seem to be lacking. They don't have to be elite midfielders to do this either.

When our midfield can work together it will be a lot easier for young guys to come in and play well, knowing they have the support of the rest of guys through the actions above.

Here I was thinking BH and rpfc were prett much the same person

haha I thought rpfc was the same poster as E25 when i first joined this forum.

But then i just realised there are plenty of posters on here who's opinion isnt just opinion, its fact!

haha I thought rpfc was the same poster as E25 when i first joined this forum.

But then i just realised there are plenty of posters on here who's opinion isnt just opinion, its fact!

Very true, and then there was that Jose Mourinho fella...

haha I thought rpfc was the same poster as E25 when i first joined this forum.

But then i just realised there are plenty of posters on here who's opinion isnt just opinion, its fact!

Very true

Now hang on a second...

It's not true.

And that's a fact.

There is no comparison between Wines or Toumpas.

People get caught up in draft positions, but Wines was head and shoulders above Toumpas in 2012 under 18's and still is.

Nothing changes and players don't miraculously become better because they were picked top 3.

We should get away from these comparisons when it comes to Wines Vs Toumpas and just let their results speak for themselves.

I agree with one of the above posters about the MFC picking mentally weak kids, I guess we should be grateful that Viney was father son,

but he is the opposite type of player that the MFC draft.

Crap. There wasn't a recruiter in the land that would have taken Wines over Toumpas at draft time. FACT

Crap. There wasn't a recruiter in the land that would have taken Wines over Toumpas at draft time. FACT

There is no way you can say that is a fact. What is fact is that a couple of people in the industry have said they would have taken Toumpas first. You can't speak for every other recruiter in the AFL.

The other fact is that we have Toump and not Wines so we have to wait and see how Toumpas develops as a player in his own right and not how he compares to Wines.

Very true, and then there was that Jose Mourinho fella...

Dont worry he's lurking around somewhere, he's had about 12 different accounts.

I always picture Grant Thomas when I see B-H posts. Very good at summarizing players abilities, can be illuminating at times, very good football knowledge and strong self confidence.

Not caring in the least what other opinions may be.

He doesnt usually come on only to negate others posts (which unfortunately some other interesting posters do) but he is pretty good at it.

Edited July 25, 201311 yr by Franky_31

There is no way you can say that is a fact. What is fact is that a couple of people in the industry have said they would have taken Toumpas first. You can't speak for every other recruiter in the AFL.

The other fact is that we have Toump and not Wines so we have to wait and see how Toumpas develops as a player in his own right and not how he compares to Wines.

OK Fact was going a little bit too far.

Edited July 25, 201311 yr by Grimes Times

Crap. There wasn't a recruiter in the land that would have taken Wines over Toumpas at draft time. FACT

You can't definitively say that.

Considering Ploughman went at 2 and wasn't even touted top 5, how would you know what other clubs are thinking?

Probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read in demonland to be honest.

Wines had a better year than Toumpas, FACT.

But, I will go back to what I said earlier, it's pointless comparing the two players against each other.

I'm a Melbourne fan after all and I'd rather realistic comparisons.

Wines better year than Toumpas....Pfft.

Toump All Australian and captain of SA...missed 1 Game against Vic Metro due to hips and SA lost because of that according to all experts...SANFL Premiership BOG...best leader in Champs 2012...Future AFL captain according to AIS Coaches and Mentors (B.Johnson, Lloyd, C.Johnson)...Runner Up in AIS Medal to Daniher and Viney.

FACTS!

i think.basically everyone rated toumpas higher, most had him top two all year and wines from 5-10

Gibbs was rated better than Selwood in junior football.

Really looking forward to seeing how he goes against North at Docklands.

It's clear he puts a lot of pressure on himself to perform, and in the wake of the near donuts last week, here's hoping he just goes out and enjoys himself.

Good luck to him.

By the way, Plowman went at pick 3 and O'Rourke went at pick 2.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story 316.

By the way, Plowman went at pick 3 and O'Rourke went at pick 2.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story 316.

Either way, surprise picks, when people call it facts that Toumpas would go before Wines in the opinion of every recruiter, that is pathetic.

It's new ground for Demonland.

Anyway, it's a Jimmy Toumpas thread, so i'll leave it alone, might pop back for an update after the Casey game.

BH turns into rpfc when his hunger is satisfied by a Snickers. Like in the ad.

Bit off topic but any news on Bennell?

I wish we kept him - such a talent!

Still remember that run along the wing and goal against Sydney (when we won by like 70) and his one hand pick up in a contested situation, on the run and in pouring rain when everyone couldn't pick it up.

I bet you anything that if he had been drafted by a successful club he would be an absolute freak!

Bit off topic but any news on Bennell?

I wish we kept him - such a talent!

Still remember that run along the wing and goal against Sydney (when we won by like 70) and his one hand pick up in a contested situation, on the run and in pouring rain when everyone couldn't pick it up.

I bet you anything that if he had been drafted by a successful club he would be an absolute freak!

Young Dee... that's a bit over the top. Sure he could kick and he could run but Bennell couldn't do much else. He was way off the mark in terms of toughness and just had no confidence.

Your last sentence is true though, if he had been drafted by anyone else he would have won a brownlow by now.

I always picture Grant Thomas when I see B-H posts. Very good at summarizing players abilities, can be illuminating at times, very good football knowledge and strong self confidence.

Not caring in the least what other opinions may be.

He doesnt usually come on only to negate others posts (which unfortunately some other interesting posters do) but he is pretty good at it.

First love

Either way, surprise picks, when people call it facts that Toumpas would go before Wines in the opinion of every recruiter, that is pathetic.

It's new ground for Demonland.

Anyway, it's a Jimmy Toumpas thread, so i'll leave it alone, might pop back for an update after the Casey game.

Only one surprised is you. Toump was touted as top 2 all year by almost every recruiter. Couple had him at Pick 1. His leadership and talent was there for all to see. It was generally known that he was not only the spiritual leader of SA, but the one they turned to, to get them out of trouble during games. In the AIS, he was also in the leadership group of 3. Not bad for a dud. Cannot wait for a pre season that's not held up due to 2 Hip Ops! With a full pre season and complete recovery, he is going to be the Gun we all expect him to be.

Won't see you at Casey 316, I'll be at Etihad watching the Toump ease his way into the action.

Wines better year than Toumpas....Pfft.

Toump All Australian and captain of SA...missed 1 Game against Vic Metro due to hips and SA lost because of that according to all experts...SANFL Premiership BOG...best leader in Champs 2012...Future AFL captain according to AIS Coaches and Mentors (B.Johnson, Lloyd, C.Johnson)...Runner Up in AIS Medal to Daniher and Viney.

FACTS!

No not facts, Jimmy had an ok GF and probably kicked the goal of the day but was not BOG.

The only fact is that this stuff is all in the past and it's what happens from now on that will matter. I was wrapped that we picked him up and I think he will be a very good footballer as a minimum.

Yes, Jimmy Toumpas had an absolute stinker and was subbed out.

But what I find most astonishing is that people are dismissing the FACT that the week before he had 20 possies and 7 tackles against the best team in the land, on their turf and in dismal conditions.

Oh and by the way Wines had 8 possies against a far less superior opposition and in far better conditions.

These boys are still kids!!!!!!

They will be up and down until they mature. Although Wines is already a boy in a mans body.

Jimmy had no preseason. At least let him get a full preseason in before making any judgment/predictions on him.

I think people should back off the kid. He is the least of our worries and will he a little inconsistent for hos first couple years. Its expected.

Have a look at the so called father son prodigy in Daniher tonight. Didn't get near it or even get near a contest.

Be patient, I know its hard with what we have been through but he will get there