Yep.

Also worth noting that Jones wasn't near the footballer he is today when that decision was made.

Actually, not true... Jones had already made giant strides over the two years prior to Neeld arriving at the club and people were already suggesting at that he was captain material.

Great stuff Robbo, some perspective from somebody who knows more about what goes on at the club than ANYBODY on here.

Actually, not true... Jones had already made giant strides over the two years prior to Neeld arriving at the club and people were already suggesting at that he was captain material.

I think there is a difference between good footballer and captain though. I think for where our club was at we needed a strong off field leader, a strong speaker etc. Maybe Jones isn't that guy, he seems kinda shy to me. He can be great leader by example and he can still be supportive of the captains without being captain.

what I want to clarify on my earlier comments is that it wasnt about Maloney's deemed selfish or forseeable needs which were to get off a sinking ship, but rather where was striking the balance btwn experience and inexperience to get them through the long 24-36 months that awaits (in terms of captaincy) writing was clearly on the wall IMO, so put aside, player votes (whom were just kids just legally starting to vote) , and put aside egos , leadership had to come from the top on this and clearly did not....

cmon we all voted at some stage in our early years whom our parents told us too whether union labor, fat liberal, gay greens,, whatever without really understanding the ramifications behind each...its f'ed us and as said earlier would be my only reason why MN should lose his post. Everything else I think he has handled this well and I back him to continue..........moving forwards (cliche)

Was it that, or was it that they all passed as no-one wanted to drink from the "poisoned chalice"? ;-)

I doubt that's the case. I mean, we aren't talking about people not putting their hands up here, we are talking anonymous voting nomination for who is the preferred. If they weren't the stand its they wouldn't have had more votes than any unless it was done joke/conspiracy by the players! I've heard it was the players, comments in this thread indicate it was the footy department who selected them. Either way they were chosen.

It's also worth noting that Grimes had been awarded the club leadership award a few years in a row previously, by the old footy department, even though he was injured and not paying. He must be doing something right.

what I want to clarify on my earlier comments is that it wasnt about Maloney's deemed selfish or forseeable needs which were to get off a sinking ship, but rather where was striking the balance btwn experience and inexperience to get them through the long 24-36 months that awaits (in terms of captaincy) writing was clearly on the wall IMO, so put aside, player votes (whom were just kids just legally starting to vote) , and put aside egos , leadership had to come from the top on this and clearly did not....

cmon we all voted at some stage in our early years whom our parents told us too whether union labor, fat liberal, [censored] greens,, whatever without really understanding the ramifications behind each...its f'ed us and as said earlier would be my only reason why MN should lose his post. Everything else I think he has handled this well and I back him to continue..........moving forwards (cliche)

If the mandate was culture, and the footy department was looking to implement a better culture throughout the club, it wouldn't make sense to give leadership positions to people who don't represent the culture and values they are trying to implement (ie Moloney). FWIW, I think if Moloney truly cracked the sads and played poorly and left because he wasn't captain, then that is pretty indicative of why he wasn't made captain.

I think the job has been made so much harder because so many senior players have been moved on because of culture. I don't think anyone expected we'd need to move this many on.

I have always rated both Neeld and Craig as I have spoken to both of them on a number of occasions. One of the points both made last night was they were originally given a mandate by the Club (assume this was Board and CEO) and this mandate has not changed, and they are sticking to that mandate. Neeld stressed strongly ie he repeated he was told "culture, culture, culture" and this is what they are attempting to implement, neither are overjoyed where we are at the moment they both regard themselves because of the inexperience of the list as 'development coaches', a point Nathan Jones agreed with. My lovely lady has become increasingly frustrated watching the games and the players 'supposedly' giving up, so she made a point of asking Mark Neeld directly after the talk for his take on why this is happening, he made the point that no matter how the players are coached, if they go into their 'shell' in a game, he only has the breaks to try and rectify, and after the first quarter against Fremantle there wasn't much he could do, so he and Craig used half time to try and show the players that if they went back to the structures and game plan they had started the game with it would work and the players responded and we won the 3rd quarter....it is 'convincing' (his word not mine coz I can't remember exactly what he said) to stick fast with the structures He made a point of telling me he was disappointed with Mark Jamar against Fremantle and he had told him so, he expected a guy of his experience to lead the team from the funk they get in and not just get 1 possession in a game against two young ruckmen. He also made a point that if the ladder was based on pure football 'talent' it would be GWS 1st and Gold Coast 2nd, but because of GWS' inexperience it isn't, and we are the second most inexperienced so this is what you get

Good stuff Sat. I suspect the idea of keeping Neeld and Craig through this year and next makes a lot more sense when you hear the plan and situation from them directly rather than presuming, judging and second guessing from the outside as we all do on here.

A big part of the problem with football commentary now, which has violently escalated over the last 5 years, is the short term desperation for success. The media breed and then feed this frenzy for instant results, and we buy into it. No patience, no tolerance for a plan that might take a few years, no respect for anybody who might try to implement a longer term fix. The media want scandal and blood, and they insidiously convince us that we drive the agenda. [censored]. They set the agenda, and public opinion lines up behind them because we assume that they know what they're talking about.

For what good it will do them, I couldn't be more impressed that certain MFC people have been staying away from the media completely, such as quoted by Neeld, and Jordie McKenzie recently. The media is POISON, with fewer and fewer exceptions, and unfortunately it dominates any information more valuable, such as that which comes from the horses mouth.

Actually, not true... Jones had already made giant strides over the two years prior to Neeld arriving at the club and people were already suggesting at that he was captain material.

Both Craig and Neeld made a point of praising Nathan Jones for his development as a Leader over the last couple of years, and he had 'earned' the vice captaincy, making the point that you need to lead both on and off the field these days.

Help me out here RGRS....

I think there is a difference between good footballer and captain though. I think for where our club was at we needed a strong off field leader, a strong speaker etc. Maybe Jones isn't that guy, he seems kinda shy to me. He can be great leader by example and he can still be supportive of the captains without being captain.

I used to think that as well and made a similar comment last year on these forums only to be told he is actually quite vocal. Despite that fact that there is the odd poster who claims he isn't the brightest spark on the team (not sure how these views are formulated), each time I have talked to him in person (just a couple of times through limited opportunities as I live in Sydney) he has come across as a very grounded, well thought and genuinely friendly person. This was confirmed to me when he phoned my 11 year old son the other week when they were calling junior members - we had a short casual chat about nothing in particular and then he spoke to my son for at least 5 minutes (after he had interrupted my son's footy training). I have never seen my son looking so happy and he went on to put in his best training session to date :-)

I doubt that's the case. I mean, we aren't talking about people not putting their hands up here, we are talking anonymous voting nomination for who is the preferred. If they weren't the stand its they wouldn't have had more votes than any unless it was done joke/conspiracy by the players! I've heard it was the players, comments in this thread indicate it was the footy department who selected them. Either way they were chosen.

It's also worth noting that Grimes had been awarded the club leadership award a few years in a row previously, by the old footy department, even though he was injured and not paying. He must be doing something right.

Don't worry Deanox, I was just making a joke... I was happy with the two Jacks getting the captaincy, but this year I have been one to say that maybe Jones is a better fit - hopefully young JT having Jones as his co-captain until JG is back on board, is a good thing as it should relieve a lot of the pressure he has been under and may also help instill some good leadership qualities..

So who is going to be the first sceptical person to come out and make a statement like "Robbo is employed in the marketing department for the club. Of course he is going to say something like this. It's his job"???

Surely someone will.

My thoughts: Robbo talks too much and this time is no exception. Nonetheless it's better that he's with the club than against it.

Yeah, the tent fares better when Robbo is inside facing out...

Everyone talks about the captaincy as Neelds biggest mistake.. If I remember correctly they gave Jones the captaincy against GC and unfortunately for him it was by far his worst game and his body language that particular Sunday was terrible..

Jack and Jack are leading maybe the worst team since Fitzroy, Brett Kirk couldn't lead them.. I think we just give them time!

I would say that Robbo is a passionate Demon who I am sure will be having a chat to Jackson about saying the things he said - especially about Moloney and Martin.

And I think that bit about Sylvia is his hope rather than his knowledge of any imminent re-signing.

I'm not sure what Satyriconhome is referring to buy I have heard people from the club say publicly that when the players voted for captains, Grimes and Trengove were the two they chose.

They players wanted to follow these guys, not the others.

Neil Craig said last week in Perth at the pre game function that the two Captains will become outstanding leaders. He said the way they conduct themselves and support their teammates whilst being so young and relatively inexprerienced speaks volumes about the quality of the two young men. He has absolutley no doubt they will become great leaders of the club.

Also talked up Chunk and Judy considerably.

Nathan owned up to the Gold Coast game as being his worst for the season,

As for the captaincy, from what we could gather from last night, Neeld did not make the final choice, over 50 people had input, he said 'culture', so the two guys everybody at the Club thinks can lead the 'culture' they want got made captain......isn't this what everybody wants............

One of the best parts of last night was listening to Neil Craig, no [censored], no spin

I would say that Robbo is a passionate Demon who I am sure will be having a chat to Jackson about saying the things he said - especially about Moloney and Martin.

And I think that bit about Sylvia is his hope rather than his knowledge of any imminent re-signing.

For the thousandth time, Col Sylvia loves Melbourne, I am another who doubts he will leave

Robbo will not be spoken to if that is what you mean, we got some of that face to face last night

So basically Moloney spit the dummy because the club didn't think he was up to the task as captain. Is anything surprised?

As for Sylvia, if he leaves imo it won't be because he is frustrated with the club, or wants to leave of the irk of Moloney. He'll leave to play finals.

Even that isn't guaranteed to push him out. Hope he stays.

For the thousandth time, Col Sylvia loves Melbourne, I am another who doubts he will leave

Robbo will not be spoken to if that is what you mean, we got some of that face to face last night

I am sure he will be spoken to - he should not talk about other team's players like that.

And I am sure Colin has a soft spot for the club - he has been here for a decade, but he has an opportunity in October that not many will pass up.

He will win back some respect if he makes the harder decision to stay but that is for October.

Robbo has just donated to become a Foundation Hero himself. Whether he is right or wrong in his beliefs I don't know - but I do think he genuinely believes in what he is saying

Good stuff Sat. I suspect the idea of keeping Neeld and Craig through this year and next makes a lot more sense when you hear the plan and situation from them directly rather than presuming, judging and second guessing from the outside as we all do on here.

A big part of the problem with football commentary now, which has violently escalated over the last 5 years, is the short term desperation for success. The media breed and then feed this frenzy for instant results, and we buy into it. No patience, no tolerance for a plan that might take a few years, no respect for anybody who might try to implement a longer term fix. The media want scandal and blood, and they insidiously convince us that we drive the agenda. [censored]. They set the agenda, and public opinion lines up behind them because we assume that they know what they're talking about.

For what good it will do them, I couldn't be more impressed that certain MFC people have been staying away from the media completely, such as quoted by Neeld, and Jordie McKenzie recently. The media is POISON, with fewer and fewer exceptions, and unfortunately it dominates any information more valuable, such as that which comes from the horses mouth.

I think this point was most evident last Sunday evening with Dwayne Russell and Gerard Healy. They continued to bang on about work ethic. There were actually minimal times I questioned our work ethic on Sunday. I think the thing that stood out for me was a combination of how good Freo are and how far we have to go before we are anywhere near as good as them. Neeld didn't really question our work ethic after Sunday, and I happened to agree with him.

In terms of Robbo's article, I'm impressed given that he was quite voacl in some circles about his disappointment at being moved on when he was. The fact that he nominated for the draft and didn't get picked up would've been a big reality check for him, but I give credit where it's due that he has come back to the Club and is sticking up for us when required - a lot more than I can say for Schwarz.

Robbo was pretty balanced. The comparison I always use for players who left the club are Beamer and Riv. I am neither here nor there on Moloney. Maybe Neeld was harsh to him but he DID drop his head last year. Neeld dropped Riv from the leadership group as well but I will always give him kudos because he NEVER ONCE picked up his bat and ball and sulked it. He was loyal to the club till the end of his contract and then moved on.

I am sure he will be spoken to - he should not talk about other team's players like that.

And I am sure Colin has a soft spot for the club - he has been here for a decade, but he has an opportunity in October that not many will pass up.

He will win back some respect if he makes the harder decision to stay but that is for October.

That hasn't stopped Moloney, Rivers and Morton speaking about a Coach of another Club, I love this, we get told on here the Club is too soft and then when a Club employee comes out swinging you want him censured.....no wonder those inside the Club shake their heads at times

No doubting Robbos passion but he is not the sort of person I would have in front of the media.

He has history of making statements which with sensible consideration would be best not made.

I think the point has often been missed lately so here goes:

What do these players have in common:

Brent Moloney

Brock McLean

Jared Rivers

Cameron Bruce*

All four players left the club in order to pursue their own interests at a time where we most needed them to stand up. The fact is a Brent Moloney that bought in, tried hard, set an example in terms of attitude and put team first would still be at Melbourne, he gave himself the excuse by cracking it and regardless of whether Neeld handled it well or not he had a choice to help the club or leave. The other fact is our club also needed Jared Rivers' leadership and had he chosen to stay he would have been welcomed with open arms like other clubs that have players that have sacrificed in order to help the cause Boak being an example. Brock McLean left of his own valition when we needed leadership and Cameron Bruce cracked it over not being offered a contract when he (with Hindsight) he wouldn't have nescessarily been able to play it out. *I know the Junior situation which was a terrible mistake impacted on Bruce but the fact remains he left when he had a strong option to stay.

I am not saying that these four players would have had us rocket up the ladder, but they would have filled a void of senior players to set an example on the training track and make our team more competitive over the last couple of years which in my opinion would have greatly helped the development of younger players. It may have also stopped us from needing to bring in the Rodans and Byrnes as had they behaved like real leaders and senior players the dearth of leadership may not have been so great.

Add to this the Tom Scully situation (which may have come out well in the long run but has certainly hurt our midfield in the short term), the stupid Junior decision and you actually have a huge part of the reason for our non-competitive list. Certainly if these players had hung around and done the team thing we would have forced players to earn games.