An insider's POV - Comments from Russell Robertson

[Harrisonrules 273]

So did the FD choose the captains or did the players?

It does not matter the process. If the coach left it to the players without his affirmation, then it is a further black mark on his incompetent leadership. At the end of the day it is his decision. He is responsible. My opinion is he did not see the downside of the decision and prevent it. Yes inadequate leadership. And don't forget this was in the context of sacking the entire leadership team of the previous year. That in itself would have caused a psychological split in the team.

[Harrisonrules 273]

So did the FD choose the captains or did the players?

It does not matter the process. If the coach left it to the players without his affirmation, then it is a further black mark on his incompetent leadership. At the end of the day it is his decision. He is responsible. My opinion is he did not see the downside of the decision and prevent it. Yes inadequate leadership. And don't forget this was in the context of sacking the entire leadership team of the previous year. That in itself would have caused a psychological split in the team.

[Harrisonrules 273]

So did the FD choose the captains or did the players?

It does not matter the process. If the coach left it to the players without his affirmation, then it is a further black mark on his incompetent leadership. At the end of the day it is his decision. He is responsible. My opinion is he did not see the downside of the decision and prevent it. Yes inadequate leadership. And don't forget this was in the context of sacking the entire leadership team of the previous year. That in itself would have caused a psychological split in the team.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,013]

"To spruik on the interior dynamics of player relationships can hardly be reliable for he is speaking of what he has been told"

You don't think that reporters are simply speaking of what they have been told? That maybe they have a bias towards doom-saying because it makes a better story? Would there be a similar feeding frenzy if they were all reporting that Melbourne is in good hands and on the right track? Hell no. There is more mileage in overstating the negative than there is in accurately reporting both positive and negative sides of the story. That is why you need to regard anything reported in the media with a hefty dose of skepticism. The sports media are not employed to tell the truth, they are there to sell their brand. How often have we seen a rumour started by one reporter be cited by half a dozen more as a source and then these half a dozen used as corroboration to establish it as fact? This is the game they play to create the news rather than report it. The less weight you place on the words of the Barretts and Wilsons of the world the better informed you will be.

[Harrisonrules 273]

So did the FD choose the captains or did the players?

It does not matter the process. If the coach left it to the players without his affirmation, then it is a further black mark on his incompetent leadership. At the end of the day it is his decision. He is responsible. My opinion is he did not see the downside of the decision and prevent it. Yes inadequate leadership. And don't forget this was in the context of sacking the entire leadership team of the previous year. That in itself would have caused a psychological split in the team.

[Harrisonrules 273]

So did the FD choose the captains or did the players?

It does not matter the process. If the coach left it to the players without his affirmation, then it is a further black mark on his incompetent leadership. At the end of the day it is his decision. He is responsible. My opinion is he did not see the downside of the decision and prevent it. Yes inadequate leadership. And don't forget this was in the context of sacking the entire leadership team of the previous year. That in itself would have caused a psychological split in the team.

[Sir Why You Little 36,762]

Toumpas should be played in the Ressies all year...i will cop that.

We have already killed Watt's spirit let's not do it again.

The experience part of the coaching mix is Craig. He's overlooking everything that Neeld does. These two are inseparable a lot of the time. I think Craig is a true mentor to Neeld in the sense that he's not telling him what to do, but guiding and explaining.

We don't have the quality and fitness in our list that Freo has. Except for Nate Jones, we have no midfielders that would get a game with them IMO, and they'd be playing Toumpas and Viney in the ressies this year for development rather than throwing them into the deep end.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,013]

And why is our list so shabby....The Club let it become that way, which is why a lot of them have to go.

I do not trust them a second time around..

You are still not addressing the EFFORT our list REFUSES to show.

The Shockers may have more skill (what a disgraceful concept) but our effort should be no different...& that must be the fault of the Coach(s)

Actually, that has been addressed repeatedly in this thread. I'm not entirely sure why you refuse to acknowledge that. Neeld told our intrepid volunteers that the inexperienced players go into their shells and start playing defensively under pressure when they need to be holding to their structures. He said that they are improving, but they need to do it as a matter of course, not have to be reminded of it during the break, and that will come with more experience. This looks to the observer like a lack of effort when they are playing reactively and not proactively running, spreading and attacking.

[45HG 1,539]

Words. Nothing but sweet, sweet words that turn into bitter orange wax in my ears.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

I was also at the meeting last night and had prior to the meeting come to the conclusion that Neeld should go in the shorter term. I now after listening to both Neeld and Craig believe that he should at least be given to the end of the season.

Both spoke honestly and both openly passionate about the Club and where it is and where it is going.

I was not at the meeting last night, but it will take a lot more than fine words with lashings of optimism (even spoken "honestly and passionately") to convince me that the current coaching group is the right one to solve our horrendous problems, going forward.

Neeld may well be a good coach under certain circumstances. What we spectators have seen last year and particularly for the 9 games this year provides no assurance that MN is the coach to take this group to success (and in my books, success equates with winning games). A young team will always risk getting hammered, but defensive structures in the game plan go a long way to minimising the size of those thrashings. So far, either effective defence is not part of the plan or it is, and the playing group aren't putting the structures into practice. For 9 weeks! Where is the learning? Can MN motivate the players? These are the questions I want to see answered on the field. And not in 2 or 3 years time, but starting this Sunday.

No one's saying Neeld is responsible solely for our current deep problems. But on the evidence (not words), is he the coach with the necessary solutions? Because we should be seeing signs of learning and improvement by now.

[Sir Why You Little 36,762]

Actually, that has been addressed repeatedly in this thread. I'm not entirely sure why you refuse to acknowledge that. Neeld told our intrepid volunteers that the inexperienced players go into their shells and start playing defensively under pressure when they need to be holding to their structures. He said that they are improving, but they need to do it as a matter of course, not have to be reminded of it during the break, and that will come with more experience. This looks to the observer like a lack of effort when they are playing reactively and not proactively running, spreading and attacking.

I know what it is.....It is a Teacher who is giving his message out & it is not being picked up...You can wrap it up in many different ways but that is the answer.

We have all had teachers....some were great, who we all learnt from to others who were not...These are the ones you struggle to remember their names.

It is a lack of effort to not compete for the ball...any other explanation is political spin.

[faultydet 7,594]

Ok so firstly, good on Robbo for flying the flag for the club. At times like these someone has to bite back, even if it does seem a little contrite.

I still have a soft spot for Beamer, but I saw his departure as someone who couldn't handle the changes and didn't like the idea of a new coach coming in and not saying he was a gun despite his B&F.

Neeld said from the start it was clean slates for everyone, the past was the past both good and bad. Perhaps Neeld could've handled it better, but personally it sounded like Moloney didn't like the challenge of earning his leadership again. Because of that he sulked a bit and immediately put them at odds.

I've said this before, I don't disagree with 90% of the departures including Moloney. I'm just concerned the ones that have stuck around and apparently "bought in" aren't showing improvement.

Did you consider that some of the people that have "supposedly" stayed and bought in, are actually on the clear out list, and are only there because it was impractical to move them on last year?

I think the job that Neeld and co have is bigger than anyone possibly imagined. Our culture has been a disgrace for decades, and its not something that can be fixed in 2 seasons. I disagree with some of the player trades/drafts, but they didnt look so bad at the time.

The difficult part for the club is supporter pressure. The insiders at the club might have been well aware that we faced another really bad year, but may have taken the decision to have a crack at it anyway, in an effort to bring us up to first world standards as far as culture goes.

A continuation of massive losses will make it harder and harder for the club administrators to allow the season to go on without change. I for one, hope like hell that we can have some credible performances soon, in order to give Neeld and co the breathing space they need to implement the changes we so desperately need to make.

Remember, they were tasked with completely reinventing the worst football culture in aussie rules football. That is never going to happen without considerable pain.

Yes, i understand the "we have been waiting 7 years" argument. I actually prefer the "we have been waiting since '64" argument. The things our players consider to be normal activity, ie: dont run/spread/harass/shepherd/gut run etc, need to be coached out for eternity. Please Dees, give your coaching staff the time, to bring in the changes we so desperately need.

[dee-luded 2,959]

DL can you please stop posting as if i do not understand the Culture Rebuild...I Do.

I question whether we have employed the right people to do the job, and that is also taking in the horrendous list management mess they were handed.

I doubt Very much that you could WYL, & most here would not. all you understand is its necessary. but not any real complexities of what makes it hard to instigate.

Generations of players have passed thru our doors, not learning how to get to their potential destiny as a team, with very many coaches, who have not tried to do the dirty Job,,,, happy to take the Money,, put on a show,, be loved by players & supporters alike,, then wait for the final curtain to drop.

... thanks for the memories, whilst older supporters waiting for their day in September pass, One by One.

enough! & its time for a coach with the ballls to take it on & do it Right... Well, we have One here, & most want to buckle at the Knees and sack him.

.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I agree..And for this i blame the CLUB for the deplorable state of the list...it is not as if we did not recieve assistance....we completely blew that & blew a few $mill it seems

The Culture change is needed just as much off field as on.

That still does not give any answers to the LACK OF EFFORT by the players on the field.

LACK OF EFFORT to learn

LACK OF EFFORT to execute on the field...i do not expect the execution to be spot on yet, BUT the efforts have not increased since Round one 2012

That falls on the Head Coach and his assistants

stop sitting on the fence...

you either have the cohunas for it, or you don't... because the 2 aren't really initially compatible... it takes much ruffling of hair & temperaments, to change the culture properly, or shift the troubles Out.

.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,013]

I know what it is.....It is a Teacher who is giving his message out & it is not being picked up...You can wrap it up in many different ways but that is the answer.

We have all had teachers....some were great, who we all learnt from to others who were not...These are the ones you struggle to remember their names.

It is a lack of effort to not compete for the ball...any other explanation is political spin.

So it's not that the issue is not being addressed but that it is and you don't believe them. Why didn't you say so in the first place?

[Sir Why You Little 36,762]

I don't sit on the fence DL....The MFC does...(or has)

We took Neeld without interviewing a lot of other coaches....was that right or did the club panic?

stop sitting on the fence...

you either have the cohunas for it, or you don't... because the 2 aren't really initially compatible... it takes much ruffling of hair & temperaments, to change the culture properly, or shift the troubles Out.

.

[dee-luded 2,959]

An experienced Coach would have got this in place last year.....Look at The Shockers...Took them about 6 weeks to sort out the Ross Lyon way.

A lot of this the players should be able to sort out themselves over team meetings and dinners....

If Neeld has made no impression on the field up until now (which he hasn't sadly) why must we endure another 13 weeks of wasted tiume??

A good respected communicator would have got the team motivated to play for each other...Not scared to run in case it's the wrong place...That is the Fault of the Coaches. And it is very hard to change a teaching style mid stream.

what are you talking about, the Saints haven't fixed their culture problems, they've band-aided over them,, had some short-term minor success on the back of a couple of A grade players & an Ultra defensive gamestyle which failed at the Crunch; & are battling with the same issues hiding about the corners of the Club...

Freo haven't changed, they are just playing Hard assed footy.. the proof will be 4 Years after Lyon finishes with them.

If the Saints had Really fixed the culture Issues, instead of what your talking about, (onfield discipline & working for one another), then Goddard would not have walked, & RLyon would still be on the Payroll, working his Butt off for the club.

they aren't,,,, & the issues are still there.

some coaches can turn the initial tide of losses like Daniher, or Balme,,, but they did not help to manage a great culture that left a fantastic Winning Club like Bomba/Costa/Cook have AT the Cats...

... or like Matthews & friends did at the Lions,,, or Like Sheedy did @ the Bombers,, or like Kennedy-Jeans did at the Hawks...

.

[dees189227 12,300]

Im more interested in why stef martin was moved on. Did he have a dark side?

[angrydee 842]

Wish spin won games

[dee-luded 2,959]

And why is our list so shabby....The Club let it become that way, which is why a lot of them have to go.

I do not trust them a second time around..

You are still not addressing the EFFORT our list REFUSES to show.

The Shockers may have more skill (what a disgraceful concept) but our effort should be no different...& that must be the fault of the Coach(s)

the draftees from 2008 or since would be no older then 23 Yrs at this point. the issue wasn't the Youth push,, it was How it was done... the list management was badly handled letting the wrong players go & holding the ones who should have been traded for picks & other depth experience.

... manufacturing strange positional coaching moves, should never have been a part of the equation, to get what we needed.... amateurs.

Our good kids aren't more than 23 Yrs old, the ones from the Bailey Era,, & some were always too soft & outside types.

# the real list weakness was our mature players who had the wrong attitudes & no real hard work head over the ball ethic... & a superior outlook over teamates. this is the cancer killing the club. attitudes of superiority from the top, cultivating a weak soft footy culture for the kids to imitate.

kids or young players coming into this can't help but copy what they see before them thinking this is AFL footy. It Isn't... or shouldn't Be.

.

[thaipantsman 180]

Moloney left Demons after 'snub' over captaincy

Moloney cracked the sads because he wasn't captain.

Sylvia will re-sign.

Rodan has had a bigger impact than we see on field.

Stef Martin was moved on for good reason.

Other senior players were old enough to be moved on.

Peter Jackson has given some truths to the club, there will be changes, but we will improve.

Great article and interview from ex player Russell Robertson, which touches on some issues we haven't heard about but have discussed ad nauseam. Maybe there is some method to all the madness even if there are some things that are not perfect?

Good Reason Indeed!! He couldn't stand the Coach!! Same for Moloney. Same for Rivers. Same for Petterd.

Your are right. We will improve. When John So takes over as Pres with Paul Roos as Coach.

Moloney should of cracked it. The Trengove/Grimes Appointment were the first tragic errors in Neeld's Leadership that incidentally may end after the Hawthorn match.

Other's are a failure to have a positive influence on the playing group.

The Guy's not inspiring. Addresses players like a year 9 school teacher.

Poor player scout.

Gillies, Dawes, Pederson, Rodan(Possibly does have a great impact off field granted...thanks Robbo), Byrnes are not up to scratch. Believe me Dawes won't make it with Melbourne. He's average at best.

This is the potential spine of the MFC and the making of M. Neeld. Not one of those guys are any good.

Watts should be given FF and left there. Why is Dawes persisted with and Watts swiftly moved to HBF every time we start getting flogged? Give the Guy a chance to get the feel of FF ...a few weeks in a row. Answer is Dawes would take 5 minutes at least to run from HBF to FF. We have our two big men Jamar and Dawes lumbering around with no chance of spreading cos they're too slow. Our tallest most promising Ruck Max Gawn is dropped again along with some other crazy selections. Very depressing.

Had to get this off my chest.

Contrary to what some say here Melbourne were not a bad Unit when Neeld took over. He knew thus the hardest to play against etc...Petterd, Rivers. Martin and Moloney are better than Gillies, Pederson, Byrnes and Rodan..Common Dudes.

Anyhow over to you

[Sir Why You Little 36,762]

So it's not that the issue is not being addressed but that it is and you don't believe them. Why didn't you say so in the first place?

After 20 Months and no improvement since Round 1 2012 why should i believe a word?

I think we have all been very patient...Probably too much.

[Sir Why You Little 36,762]

I couldn't give a rats about St.Kilda's Culture...If anytjhing if it's so bad it proves my theory that Ross Lyon is the Best Modern day Coach by a long way.

Ross Lyon's Coaching did not fail.

what are you talking about, the Saints haven't fixed their culture problems, they've band-aided over them,, had some short-term minor success on the back of a couple of A grade players & an Ultra defensive gamestyle which failed at the Crunch; & are battling with the same issues hiding about the corners of the Club...

Freo haven't changed, they are just playing Hard assed footy.. the proof will be 4 Years after Lyon finishes with them.

If the Saints had Really fixed the culture Issues, instead of what your talking about, (onfield discipline & working for one another), then Goddard would not have walked, & RLyon would still be on the Payroll, working his Butt off for the club.

they aren't,,,, & the issues are still there.

some coaches can turn the initial tide of losses like Daniher, or Balme,,, but they did not help to manage a great culture that left a fantastic Winning Club like Bomba/Costa/Cook have AT the Cats...

... or like Matthews & friends did at the Lions,,, or Like Sheedy did @ the Bombers,, or like Kennedy-Jeans did at the Hawks...

.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I don't sit on the fence DL....The MFC does...(or has)

We took Neeld without interviewing a lot of other coaches....was that right or did the club panic?

.. you sitting on the fence now. In your heart you know the Culture is, & has been OFF for decades... but you do not want to do the work necessary, to fix the issue that is bigger than we all had imagined back in 2008...

there is No shortcut that you seek WYL, we should have in hindsight done this in 2006 - 2008... & for the really switched on, like a Barassi or a Blight, or Matthews, they would have done this back in 2004ish...

we are/have been all slow on the uptake realising just how bad things have been, inside the clubs mentality....

If we don't do this CleanUp NOW,,, before this Group of Kids grows another Bad/Culture into their psyche, we will have missed the chance to grab it & yank it out.

... It'll take decades to get this opportunity again,, after more Decades of being the YoYo's of the competition, like the Saints & the Tigers...

It won't take much longer to rip it out, most is gone Now,,, & the older ones here Now, are IMO, wanting to fix it & see out they're careers, in a Professional Elite manner.

.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

A good night, thanks to OPSM for the facilities, they were great hosts. Jones was a bit late, traffic was horrendous in the average weather last night.

So started off with Robbo questioning Neeld and then Craig. Inexperience was obviously a topic covered by Neeld, Trengove and Grimes being captains came up (and was quizzed again in questions), Neeld explained how last years preseason, they had a number of categories relating to elite preparation and all players and coaches rated the players from 1-7, this exercise found the two Jacks head and shoulders above everyone else. It also found only 2 of the previous years leadership group to be in the top 15. This year, after the Darwin camp (maybe in it), the exercise was done again, the two Jacks again clearly up the top, but gap was much smaller to others, with Jones third in rankings.

Neeld also spoke of how he had been given specific directives when he got the job about changes to be made (took this to mean mainly cultural type issues) and how he has gone about making such changes and seems happy with how he is doing this. It is the first time I have heard him speak about such a mandate for change and he says he was under no illusions as to just how hard the task would be.

Craig talked a bit about his role before the first question. This was to Mark and about the older players bought into the club, how Rodhan wasn't recruited to play week by week, but to fill holes when kids needed a rest and for his influence around the club, Byrnes to bring his Geelong experience and help lead around the club, Sellar bought up by Craig, quizzed on Pedo by questioner and how seemingly little done at Casey, 49 marks and 25 marks in defence last 2 games was Neelds reaction.

The next question was from a feisty bloke who really got stuck into Neeld about his continual use of the word "inexperience" and for making 2 obviously very young and "inexperienced" players as co-captains. Neeld had only just started answering before the guy decided to continue on. Mark again talked about the process of selecting captains and where our players are at, talking about the implications of having so few games into our players and how inexperience does not mean they lack talent and how in his opinion GWS and the Suns are the most talented lists.

Jonesy had arrived and talked about his football experiences so far and Craig recalled his interview with Nathan in 2005 and how he had hoped to draft him to Adelaide.

I got the next question in and asked Neeld what he wishes he had done differently (the others had covered what I had planned to ask), his response was pretty much nothing, how he'd been given a job to do and was doing it. I followed it up with mentioning that at training before Freo he was much more active than I had ever seen before, he said he hadn't noticed it.

Peter then let Nathan know that despite the criticism, the bulk of supporters were right behind the boys, something I backed up to Nathan after the presentations.

There were a couple more questions I have forgotten the bulk of, though they talked about how they try and stop other teams when they get a run on. The final question was about how Nathan is handling being tagged this year, something he has hardly experienced before but has happened a lot this year. He mentioned how he investigates the opponent he is expecting to be tagged by, watching footage of them and watching footage of other players who have been tagged by said player to get some ideas on what they did differently to beat the tag.

Afterwards, had a quick chat with Neeld, asking about Sam Blease, who I'm a fan of, he mentioned that while devastating in attack, that Sam needs to continue to improve his defensive efforts and how he is hoping Sam plays in at least 8 of our remaining games, though probably not till after the bye.

I then asked Jonesy to show me the tatt of his Grandfather, as my bro had told me its great and he wasn't exaggerating. We had a chat about training and how it is frustrating that what they are doing on the track is not really showing itself in games.

That about covers it as best as I can recall. Thanks again to OPSM and the club, was an enjoyable night.