Decent players like Garland and Frawley are playing like absolute vegetables. There's no doubt there's a still a smattering of awful players in our team, but I can't believe we're 150 points bad.

I remember you had a go at me a couple of years ago when i talked about he rotten culture that permeated through the club and had for years; still think I had it wrong?

It has crossed from coach to coach, from administration to administration, surely you can see that now.

I remember you had a go at me a couple of years ago when i talked about he rotten culture that permeated through the club and had for years; still think I had it wrong?

It has crossed from coach to coach, from administration to administration, surely you can see that now.

I'm still pretty sure this has little to do with sacking of Norm Smith, Rob.

Whatever gameplan we have, it's near impossible to execute when the midfield gets smashed like they did last night. I mean bloody hell, Mitch Clark spent time in the midfield, with Jamar doing the ruckwork. A ruckman tapping to a ruckman wont get the job done.

Mark Neeld has a lot to answer for why he hasnt tried to poach any high profile mids.In his post match presser Neeld said the midfield is in the development phaise. Aside from Clark who we needed in the forward line, Dawes and Hogan were a mistake. What we really needed was Boak and O'Meara.

I'm still pretty sure this has little to do with sacking of Norm Smith, Rob.

You know what the common denominator is; MCC.

They ran the club then and still have a big hand in its running now.

The first quarter we actually tried. Result was 6 goals to one. And I think we were a touch unlucky not to be closer.

But the rest of the game we didnt try completely.

Plus the coach and others should have made some improvement over summer, not made things worse.

The players are bad, but not 140 points and barely try bad. Heck it was only 50 at half time. We lost the second half by 90 points. That is beyond a joke

I felt that the first quarter that there was some effort but there is something deeply ingrained within the psyche of the players that makes them want to give up. The one thing that killed us in the Port game, the lack of run and spread, kicked in after the third Essendon goal. I was looking around the packs to see who was creating options and it was like they had given up.

I don't believe our players are as bad as our performances suggest.

Clearly, our midfield is weak, but it shouldn't be this bad.

The real issues, IMO, are the attitudes of the players, their confidence levels, our lack of leadership, and (to an unknown extent) some sort of rift between the coaches and players.

Hogan was a mistake.

I still think the supposed game plan is a massive variable in this as well. The players just look they have NFI of what to do when challenged? All of this when we were supposed to building a team that thrives on and dominates the defensive part of the game.

Can't we just get the 4 points at training each week when there's no opposition? Neeld seems to think we're so good at training that surely we should be compensated or rewarded for it.

Get rid of Sylvia, Davey and Jamar.

Cut a heaps more spuds like Tapscott, Strauss and anyone who can't break into this pathetic side.

Spend up on getting a gun young kid here like Rory Sloane, Nat Fyfe, Ollie Wines.

I don't care what it costs us, do this and then recruit more Terlich type players, instead of wasting coin on Sylvia, Davey and the rest of the spuds.

The irony.

Apparently we had Rory Sloane locked in at pick 35 in 2008. At the very last minute, we called out Jamie Bennell.

Took Luke Tapscott in 2009 with pick 18. Fyfe went to Freo at pick 20. I expect he would've been in the mix.

Overlooked Wines last year. Happy with Jimmy Toumpas and Jesse Hogan though.

Our culture and development must've had a lot to do with where these players currently are at.

I still hate the decision to let Junior McDonald go when they did. We were the one club who could least afford to let a senior leader like that go prematurely.

In fact, I reckon it's one of the dumbest things this club has done in recent years - and that's saying something.

The simple fact is the midfield is junk. For such responsibility to be placed on Jack Viney this early in his career is an indictment on the club. But apart from Nathan Jones who else do we have in the midfield that can cut it with first class opposition? Results like last night will become commonplace given our list right now. Early in Bailey's tenure, we struggled to kick goals. This is worse - we struggle to simply get the ball!

There is a lot wrong with the Dees at the moment, but they do have the players, we have beaten Essendon when they were on fire last year, we have taken it up to collingwood and other teams at times. That is the problem we do it sporadically, if the players are not behind the coach then we are doomed. Better to drop them and get player on board that will try. These guys were all selected by Melbourne as being top players from VFL, SAFL, etc.. so they have the capability, we just miss the game plan, some skill and the balls to get in and compete. Play second string players if need be they want to make it so will at least give a contest. Last year we had Maloney dragging the chain, this year we seem to have half a dozen others.

Before yesterdays game, players were going through drills - handball receive, handpass off and the bump into the guy holding the pads, everyone i saw hit that pad with no intensity or urgency, yes it was a drill but please try to put a bit more energy in.

Before yesterdays game, players were going through drills - handball receive, handpass off and the bump into the guy holding the pads, everyone i saw hit that pad with no intensity or urgency, yes it was a drill but please try to put a bit more energy in.

that would have been after Neeld delivered THAT speech, wouldn't it?

Nobody can argue that some of our players aren't great and some are downright pitiful, but we also have some unquestionable quality on the list and we aren't as bad as the results over the last two years would suggest. Two years ago we won 7 games with largely a crappier list. We have since regressed to the depth of crapness and it is unacceptable.

I hate the fact that Neeld keeps referring to this year as a "development year". It may be true but the players are playing like it is. Why not say we are passed development and are looking for results?

The players probably don't feel as though they are a chance of competing when their coach keeps talking them down.

Daniher, Riley, Bailey, Viney, Neeld.

Five coaches. Seven years. About 20 wins between them.

What if it's not the coaches or the culture?

What if we simply have recruited bad practitioners of australian rules football?

Could it be that simple?

If it is, can it be fixed without just sitting through another six years of Draft Day Threads?

It's only natural to place blame on high-profile individuals (and there's no-one more high profile than the senior coach), but the reality probably is that we just have not picked the correct players over an extended period of time.

Again, are we willing to do it all over again in the hopes that this time we might actually get it right?

What do you mean "if" chook.

They are Poor, really poor.