Time to go Mark Neeld

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Nup...

the single biggest danger of this club, is to Not Fix the Rotten Soft Culture this Club has endured for the best part of 40 Yrs.

But anyone can see, that decades of coaches, & decades of recruits & players, Not fulfilling their talents, is a hallmark of our Once great Club.

Don't Panic..... reacting out of fear & ignorance is the worst possible way to handle a situation where change is being undertaken.

Excellent post Dee-luded

God, I wish we would shut the F___ up about Neeld.

This is nothing more than dancing on graves unless you are stupid enough to think that if this form keeps up we will not make a change.

He has a family and is a person and we are 47 pages into a storyline that has been written since the Bombers game and hasn't chaged since.

We are gaining nothing but losing something with this constant vitriol.

This is the most sensible post i've read on this thread about the Neeld situation

[jazza 1,323]

been saying this for ever and keep getting shot down by people that have probably never been involved in real footy,

they have followed an afl club but have no idea of how a real club works

Edited May 1, 2013 by jazza

[Grapeviney 9,538]

Pettard: lost his spirit under Neeld.Lost his confidence and ability. Now playing excellent football for Richmond.

I think that's stretching it a bit. I watched the Freo-Richmond game last Friday night and he coughed up pretty much every second kick he had.

Edit: Just checked the stats - he actually did cough up every third possession he had.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Grapeviney

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Nup...

the single biggest danger of this club, is to Not Fix the Rotten Soft Culture this Club has endured for the best part of 40 Yrs.

making change like this is very uncomfortable, 7 meets with huge resistance from players & from some staff....and, this is why its such a tough job for a coach to do.

I know this stuff very well from around footy clubs, & I have had to change myself over my journey, & have learnt from experts.

I was one of these types when I was young, & I took on the new foreman at our work resisting & challenging his regimented ways.. He got rid of me a couple of times.. until I decided I didn't want to go back.

I understand well what has happened at Melbourne over the decades, & I understand former players discomfort with the changes, & I understand former & current players would not "Get It",,, understand the need to change it, nor Why.

But anyone can see, that decades of coaches, & decades of recruits & players, Not fulfilling their talents, is a hallmark of our Once great Club.

Don't Panic..... reacting out of fear & ignorance is the worst possible way to handle a situation where change is being undertaken.

Dee-Luded: I am not argueing that the culture needed to change, nor that it is a difficult period. My argument is that this has been done in such a way that players have simply not "bought in" despite what some claim. Neeld is a hard arse who is not respected, he has not earned respect. All he has done is destroyed confidence and self belief. A good hard arse coach like Multhouse demands respect but he has also earnt that respect, he also understands that personalities are not one fits all. Different personalities must be dealt with in different ways. As an owner of my own business you understand that you must change your approach (not message) to get the most out of differing personalities.

My observation is that Neeld does not change the way he delivers his message for player to player. This is poor management.

It is also obvious he hates all the well educated private school boys; Martin, Pettard, Watts, Bleese, Strauss. He loves the battlers. His treatment of Watts who is a mature, good man has been appalling. Expect to see Watts at Carlton next season, I know as a fact that he has already been approached and he would love TO PLAY FOR MALTHOUSE who has been his mentor. If this happens responsibility will again fall on Neelds shoulders.

Please we must get rid of Neeld as matter of urgency.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[Satyriconhome 10,340]

Dee-Luded: I am not argueing that the culture needed to change, nor that it is a difficult period. My argument is that this has been done in such a way that players have simply not "bought in" despite what some claim. Neeld is a hard arse who is not respected, he has not earned respect. All he has done is destroyed confidence and self belief. A good hard arse coach like Multhouse demands respect but he has also earnt that respect, he also understands that personalities are not one fits all. Different personalities must be dealt with in different ways. As an owner of my own business you understand that you must change your approach (not message) to get the most out of differing personalities.

My observation is that Neeld does not change the way he delivers his message for player to player. This is poor management.

It is also obvious he hates all the well educated private school boys; Martin, Pettard, Watts, Bleese, Strauss. He loves the battlers. His treatment of Watts who is a mature, good man has been appalling. Expect to see Watts at Carlton next season.

How is it obvious that he hates all the well educated private schoo l boys?

It is only posters on here (probably Labor voters) who keep trying to instigate a class war

Neeld wants players who are in form and playing their role, assume if one was green with four ears as long as they did this they would be ok

[Bossdog 2,002]

Dee-Luded: I am not argueing that the culture needed to change, nor that it is a difficult period. My argument is that this has been done in such a way that players have simply not "bought in" despite what some claim. Neeld is a hard arse who is not respected, he has not earned respect. All he has done is destroyed confidence and self belief. A good hard arse coach like Multhouse demands respect but he has also earnt that respect, he also understands that personalities are not one fits all. Different personalities must be dealt with in different ways. As an owner of my own business you understand that you must change your approach (not message) to get the most out of differing personalities.

My observation is that Neeld does not change the way he delivers his message for player to player. This is poor management.

It is also obvious he hates all the well educated private school boys; Martin, Pettard, Watts, Bleese, Strauss. He loves the battlers. His treatment of Watts who is a mature, good man has been appalling. Expect to see Watts at Carlton next season.

Well maybe the players need to harden up.......I'm sick of hearing the tail wag the dog......Don't like the coach????....Tough [censored] ...Play well to spite him if you have to.....Or play for him....Just play a hard brand of footy.....Christ, wouldn't want to hurt their little feelings ...Would we?????

[jazza 1,323]

Dee-Luded: I am not argueing that the culture needed to change, nor that it is a difficult period. My argument is that this has been done in such a way that players have simply not "bought in" despite what some claim. Neeld is a hard arse who is not respected, he has not earned respect. All he has done is destroyed confidence and self belief. A good hard arse coach like Multhouse demands respect but he has also earnt that respect, he also understands that personalities are not one fits all. Different personalities must be dealt with in different ways. As an owner of my own business you understand that you must change your approach (not message) to get the most out of differing personalities.

My observation is that Neeld does not change the way he delivers his message for player to player. This is poor management.

It is also obvious he hates all the well educated private school boys; Martin, Pettard, Watts, Bleese, Strauss. He loves the battlers. His treatment of Watts who is a mature, good man has been appalling. Expect to see Watts at Carlton next season.

it doesnt matter, he has been employed to head kick and bring in a fitness regime, i think your missing the point

everbody seems to quote statistics on this site, they are a waste. its about a cleanout for the 3 year term. and then we will see whats left. and thats when the board will look at the fd and coach until then suck it up.the board will disintergrate if theyt dont obey thier own mantra

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Well maybe the players need to harden up.......I'm sick of hearing the tail wag the dog......Don't like the coach????....Tough [censored] ...Play well to spite him if you have to.....Or play for him....Just play a hard brand of footy.....Christ, wouldn't want to hurt their little feelings ...Would we?????

Mate, that is the simplistic approach that Neeld is using. It does not work.

They are mostly 18 -24 yo kids, there football club becomes their family, families need to give support. They are gen Y. Its just not as simple as kicking everyones arse 24/7. You can be tough, you can be hard, you can be strict but to get the most out of your players you need to know each ones personality and head space and how to get the most out of that peronality and head space. You need to know when to go hard, you need to know when to rebuild their confidence, you need to know how to build confidence and self belief at the same time as being tough and changing culture. This is the missing skill that Neeld does not have. This is creating all our problems.

As I said getting the most out of your team (no matter what it is) is not a one size fits all prospect.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[dee-luded 2,959]

I disagree, I would have kept all these players. They are our experianced players, we had already moved on far too many experianced players too quickly. This is part of the problem. Even that dud Neeld recognised this with the recruitment of senior players.

Moloney life long Dees supporter. Moloney is Moloney and not perfect, but as a big bodied clearance player, he is exactly what we need. Simply we are smashed in the centre square. He would be our second best mid-fielder. It is rubbish to suggest we are not significantly worse off without him

Pettard: lost his spirit under Neeld.Lost his confidence and ability. Now playing excellent football for Richmond.

Martin: had a famous blowup with Neeld mid season. He never player seniors again. He is a far better prospect than Pederson, Seller, or Gillies.

Rivers: A terrible loss, no one can argue. If he thought we were on track he would have stayed. Was unhappy with his treatment when dumped from leadership group.

Green: Better than Roden. Why dump Green and then recruit a senior player like Roden?

Simply this is part of the reason why we have gone backwards. Out of all of traded recruits only Brynes deserves praise. The rest have given us nothing and far less than the list of Dees that Neeld delt out.

No, they are the bearers of the old rotten culture... they unfortunately learnt that culture,, handed down to them...

you cannot change that culture with those who continue to promote the negative aspects of it. & those who won't be figuring in the restructure, are better off seeking success elsewhere with their remaining few years.

{on culture}.... McLure on Jack Riewoldt >>> John Ralph from the telegraph,

Triple premiership forward and former Carlton captain Mark Maclure was particularly blunt on the weekend... "Jack Riewoldt. Fair dinkum. What a prima donna. It's about time he actually stood up himself and did something," was Maclure's assessment.

"That's the syndrome of a poor club, and Carlton were a poor club when it happened with (Brendan) Fevola. And it reflects on coaching staff, management, and the players."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/gallery/the-buzz-richmond-star-jack-riewoldt-must-get-on-with-playing-good-footy/story-e6freye9-1226632553081

-------------------------------------------------------

... we are (our club), is in the process of cutting away the Rotten, & instilling professional ways, at a club which has been a Holiday destination for decades.

let the work continue...

just because you don't understand the What & Why, doesn't mean you should trash the new broom.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Mate, that is the simplistic approach that Neeld is using. It does not work.

They are mostly 18 -24 yo kids, there football club becomes their family. They are gen Y. Its just not as simple as kicking everyones arse 24/7. You can be tough, you can be hard, you can be strict but to get the most out of your players you need to know each ones personality, you need to know when to go hard, you need to know how to rebuild their confidence, you need to know how to build confidence and self belief at the same time as being tough. This is the missing skill that Neeld does not have. This is creating all our problems.

I believe that Neeld HAS changed this year.....Posters on here have been putting crap on him for publicly praising players after heavy losses....Do you really think that he does not talk to players during the week or think that he is a tough arse everyday at all times.....Give him a bit of intelligence.....It's going to take time......Another coach at this time would be suicide.......

[jazza 1,323]

oohh deeluded far to sensible mate,

they just dont get IT

thanks for your honesty and understanding , see you at the winning circle in 2015

[old55 22,842]

AFL coaching is a very tough job, you have deliver against capable opposition on a fixed day - you can't delay the date and you can't really deliver less product.

I'm reminded that throughout 2007-8 when I regularly visited a Collingwood board that posters universally hated their coach and referred to him and his game plan as "Mick Madhouse" - eventually the wheel turned. I was definitely willing to cut Neeld plenty of slack.

But the problem for me is a disastrous start to the season coupled with "we didn't see that coming". While you can't really deliver less there are ways that you can mitigate the damage. In weeks 1 and 2 Neeld showed absolutely no grasp of what was happening or how to mitigate the damage. Since then we played against ordinary opposition - WC are really struggling and smashed us by 100points, Gold Coast showed where GWS are at and beat them by more than we did away from home and Brisbane played like a basket case until they played us.

We need a solid lead time to secure a new coach - September is not the time to start looking. Also important list management decisions are taken in the next few months.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The two years after Wallace took over the Bulldogs they made successive prelims. The point was that both he and Roos showed enough in a caretaker role to be given the job the following year. This is the rationale for moving now and giving someone else an audition for the role.

and where have the doggies gone since then??? they still haven't changed the culture of that club & still haven't threatened success.

where are the Saints since even before Thomas took over? wasn't it they sacked Blight as they learnt blight had a list of players to be chopped?

they tried & tried, the Saints, & even with Ross Lyon got them up to be at least Competitive,,, but they are still in the old (we'll just rely on 1 or 2 players method of their madness)

Ross Lyon saw the writing on the wall with an aging list, & a lack of perceived support to continue the job & he gave up on them. moved on.

------------------------------------------------

# IF we shaft Neeld, "one coach" who has the Integrity, to try to do the Job Properly/Thoroughly,,,

,,, then we will just be resigned to fluctuate between rebuilds, & almost, but also Rans...

change, Its Now, or Never...

.

[DeeZee 7,296]

One thing i do know about Neeld is what he achieved outside of being a collingwood assistant.

He coached Ocean Grove to 3 premierships.

Now that sounds impressive, but the fact is he inherited a list that was already far and away the best in the competition.

Ocean Grove also had the most money and best facilities,and is akin to taking over Man U from Sir Alex.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

I believe that Neeld HAS changed this year.....Posters on here have been putting crap on him for publicly praising players after heavy losses....Do you really think that he does not talk to players during the week or think that he is a tough arse everyday at all times.....Give him a bit of intelligence.....It's going to take time......Another coach at this time would be suicide.......

Yes, I have noticed that Neeld now says some nice things publically. He has obviuosly been told that this is part of his problem and he is attempting to change............. but is too late. He has lost the group, we are destined to fall further into the abyss. We are destined to lose more tallented players, we are destined to remain the laughing stock of the competition.

Again I am not against the approach, I am not against changing the culture. Simply we have hired the wrong person, who does not have the skill set to do it.

Neeld must be fired. I am expecting another 15 goal hartless loss this week. I pray (and I am not religious) that the board use this upcoming loss to boot this dud squarly out of our club.

[DeeSpencer 24,784]

I understand Neeld's theory about not wanting to waste everything by giving away the gameplan but to me gameplans don't really win games of footy. Good smart and tough footy players do.

So my current criticism of Neeld is that the players are just completely confused and held back by his game plan.

Otherwise how could a team get so little of the ball week in week out and look so bad defensively week in week out.

Surely a more simplistic plan would build confidence, increase results and there drive success. Also at training instead of focussing on ball movement patters lets just drill the basic skills. Take a bunch of time to teach kicking under pressure and basic defensive tasks like tackling and close manning of an opponent.

Carlton beat Adelaide on the weekend without one contested mark in their forward line. In fact I think their 2 talls didn't actually take a mark inside 50. You can't tell me Malthouse won that game due to his long kicking to tall forwards structure he employed at Collingwood with Cloke.

[jazza 1,323]

One thing i do know about Neeld is what he achieved outside of being a collingwood assistant.

He coached Ocean Grove to 3 premierships.

Now that sounds impressive, but the fact is he inherited a list that was already far and away the best in the competition.

Ocean Grove also had the most money and best facilities,and is akin to taking over Man U from Sir Alex.

your right the grubbers, ocean grove had a great cheque book and all the players money can buy

but whats that got to do with our current situation?

[DeeSpencer 24,784]

and where have the doggies gone since then??? they still haven't changed the culture of that club & still haven't threatened success.

where are the Saints since even before Thomas took over? wasn't it they sacked Blight as they learnt blight had a list of players to be chopped?

they tried & tried, the Saints, & even with Ross Lyon got them up to be at least Competitive,,, but they are still in the old (we'll just rely on 1 or 2 players method of their madness)

Ross Lyon saw the writing on the wall with an aging list, & a lack of perceived support to continue the job & he gave up on them. moved on.

I think you are kidding yourself if you say culture held these two teams back. The dogs lost very close prelims mainly because they didn't quite have the cattle on the day to compete with the very best. They had an elite midfield and great flankers but didn't have the talls. And the saints drew one grand final and without a nicely placed Scarlett toe poke might have lost the other. In fact I'd say divine intervention even conspired against them, they had Geelong on toast and it started raining on the best wet weather footy team. Fair to say Geelong are also in running for best team of all time with 3 flags in 5 years.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Yes, I have noticed that Neeld now says some nice things publically. He has obviuosly been told that this is part of his problem and he is attempting to change............. but is too late. He has lost the group, we are destined to fall further into the abyss. We are destined to lose more tallented players, we are destined to remain the laughing stock of the competition.

Again I am not against the approach, I am not against changing the culture. Simply we have hired the wrong person, who does not have the skill set to do it.

Neeld must be fired. I am expecting another 15 goal hartless loss this week. I pray (and I am not religious) that the board use this upcoming loss to boot this dud squarly out of our club.

And replaced by who????....or is that whom????...This new great coach had better be very very good.....

[Satyriconhome 10,340]

Yes, I have noticed that Neeld now says some nice things publically. He has obviuosly been told that this is part of his problem and he is attempting to change............. but is too late. He has lost the group, we are destined to fall further into the abyss. We are destined to lose more tallented players, we are destined to remain the laughing stock of the competition.

Again I am not against the approach, I am not against changing the culture. Simply we have hired the wrong person, who does not have the skill set to do it.

Neeld must be fired. I am expecting another 15 goal hartless loss this week. I pray (and I am not religious) that the board use this upcoming loss to boot this dud squarly out of our club.

How do you know all this, are you are player, coz if you are fess up and we know you are speaking the truth, your other post further up the page.....headspace? personality?....they are guys who want to be professional footballers, they should have their 'headspace' in the right place to begin with surely

Who do you want him replaced with 6 games into a season?

[Akum 2,660]

One thing i do know about Neeld is what he achieved outside of being a collingwood assistant.

He coached Ocean Grove to 3 premierships.

Now that sounds impressive, but the fact is he inherited a list that was already far and away the best in the competition.

Ocean Grove also had the most money and best facilities,and is akin to taking over Man U from Sir Alex.

Interesting. In the past couple of weeks I've come across, on separate occasions, 2 people involved with Western Jets. Neeld's current situation is no surprise to them whatsoever.

[Satyriconhome 10,340]

I understand Neeld's theory about not wanting to waste everything by giving away the gameplan but to me gameplans don't really win games of footy. Good smart and tough footy players do.

So my current criticism of Neeld is that the players are just completely confused and held back by his game plan.

Otherwise how could a team get so little of the ball week in week out and look so bad defensively week in week out.

Surely a more simplistic plan would build confidence, increase results and there drive success. Also at training instead of focussing on ball movement patters lets just drill the basic skills. Take a bunch of time to teach kicking under pressure and basic defensive tasks like tackling and close manning of an opponent.

Carlton beat Adelaide on the weekend without one contested mark in their forward line. In fact I think their 2 talls didn't actually take a mark inside 50. You can't tell me Malthouse won that game due to his long kicking to tall forwards structure he employed at Collingwood with Cloke.

They do the drills at training, the issue is mental strength, half the team have not played 50 games, the mind gets tired if you are concentrating for so long at AFL level......adrenaline for the first few games can only get you so far, ask Jack Viney......I asked once at an early training session and stood amongst them whilst they ran, kicked etc, I have played footy but the speed they were moving at was bloody frightening..... why do think so many players dont make it, they don't develop the mental strength.......you name checked Carlton...average games experience?......why do think GWS has faded every game this season, the skills are there but the minds and bodies aren't yet

[Satyriconhome 10,340]

Interesting. In the past couple of weeks I've come across, on separate occasions, 2 people involved with Western Jets. Neeld's current situation is no surprise to them whatsoever.

Who?

[sue 9,018]

I cannot see how anyone on this forum who is not closely connected to the club would have any idea of Neeld's relationship with the players. Examining the entrails of post-match press conferences and player's performance is just so much guesswork. I'm constantly amazed by the bold assertions people make.

Lack of skills compounded by lack of confidence seems far more likely to be the problem than whether player like or respect the coach.

[Fat Tony 5,090]

and where have the doggies gone since then??? they still haven't changed the culture of that club & still haven't threatened success.

where are the Saints since even before Thomas took over? wasn't it they sacked Blight as they learnt blight had a list of players to be chopped?

they tried & tried, the Saints, & even with Ross Lyon got them up to be at least Competitive,,, but they are still in the old (we'll just rely on 1 or 2 players method of their madness)

Ross Lyon saw the writing on the wall with an aging list, & a lack of perceived support to continue the job & he gave up on them. moved on.

------------------------------------------------

# IF we shaft Neeld, "one coach" who has the Integrity, to try to do the Job Properly/Thoroughly,,,

,,, then we will just be resigned to fluctuate between rebuilds, & almost, but also Rans...

change, Its Now, or Never...

.

It is easy to point out failures given there are 18 clubs and only one winner each year.

Roos, Matthews and Pagan are examples who starting as caretakers and later succeeded, and all were at clubs that had experienced long premiership droughts like us.