I am not sticking up for the Club, I just don't like one sidedness, quite easy to do for lazy posters, it was just a question, obviously you don't have anything valid to say in reply as you just took the easy route and criticised me, proves my point really doesn't it

Also is there anything wrong with sticking up for the Club I support anyway, er must be, the majority of supporters posters on this topic seem to be just critical

it wasnt a criticism, just a question!

you should change your user name to the Devils Demons advocate!

it wasnt a criticism, just a question!

you should change your user name to the Devils Demons advocate!

It was criticism disguised as a question, you going to anwer the question I put, or just keep putting stull like this, really helps the topic zing along, my point again

Playing wise Port is doing very well.

I had a look through their fiancial report for 2012 to try and understand from that side where this improvement might have come from and found some interesting stuff:

• From 2008 to 2012 Port increased their memebership by 3,442 (we have increased ours by 5,726)
• Last year they had an opperating loss after grants of -$2,117,071 compared to 2011's operating profit after grants of $887,971. The huge opperating loss can be attributed to that the SNAFL grants they recieve has gone from $4.05m in 2011 to $2m in 2012.
• Port's football expenditure increased from 2011 to 2012 by $1,747,649. Ours increased quite a bit too, and we still spent about $500,000 more then them last year.

Good on them. They have a good membership base (still higher than ours) and increased their football expenditure significantly.

However their membership growth is alot slower than ours, and if the SNAFL continue with this type of reduced grants this year they will be in the red around $4million so could be in quite a bit of financial trouble...

Mark Neeld was an assistant at Collingwood, these are some of the duds he coached, Nick Maxwell, Harry O'Brien, Heath Shaw when defensive coach, Dane Swan, Scott Pendlebury, Dale Thomas, when he was midfield coach, let's get a "James Kelly" quote from them.

Everything turns quickly, Michael Voss was a genius coach in NAB Cup and his job was on the line five weeks later

Sanderson at Adelaide was flavour of the month last year, what now for them?

They have given the 'James Kelly' type quotes in the past and I don't put much store in what a player says about an assistant because the senior job is a totally different position and carries full responsibility. The weight of that responsibility changes people, some are up for the challenge some aren't, some are just good assistants who have been pushed above their station.

The only thing we can go on are the results, the scoreboard is the ultimate judge. Voss' job has been on the line for a while now, no one has seen him as a genius coach but he is a favourite son and it buys him some time.

The results don't show well for Neeld, I'm not looking for his head yet but I am concerned and have been since early last season. You don't lose games by the margins we have over the last few seasons and get through unscathed.

The next 6 months are crucial to the future of the club, decisions will be made and hopefully they are the right ones. At least they will be out of the hands of people responsible for our recent failures.

Do you worry do you?

Do you know that it takes 8 years to qualify for Restricted FA and 10 years to qualify for Unrestricted FA?

And that the only players eligible are Davey and Sylvia?

Are you still worried?

Oh, you are?

Because you are grandstanding?

There will be players who ask for trades too. FA isn't the only exit.

One thing I think we're all forgetting is that he's a new coach and will also need to learn the caper. He'll either get better or fall on his sword.

Hinkley as an A grade midfield at his disposal. Neeld does not

Lets all say it together

Hinkley as an A grade midfield at his disposal. Neeld does not

Hinkley as an A grade midfield at his disposal. Neeld does not

Hinkley as an A grade midfield at his disposal. Neeld does not

Hinkley as an A grade midfield at his disposal. Neeld does not

Hinkley as an A grade midfield at his disposal. Neeld does not

Hinkley as an A grade midfield at his disposal. Neeld does not

Hinkley as an A grade midfield at his disposal. Neeld does not

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years, let's say it all together.

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years

Port finished 16th and 14th in the last two years

However their membership growth is alot slower than ours

Agree with your post apart from this bit... They will overtake us with that this year, easily. Plus they have jumped in average attendance from around 19k to 30k this year, that will help their financials.

There will be players who ask for trades too. FA isn't the only exit.

Excellent sentiment.

We will be showing the door to some players ourselves.

And you specifically mentioned FA as THE exit.

You were using it to frighten people into believing that only immediate sackings will save the oh-so-awesome list as it stands today.

Some see Peter Jackson as the saviour - the panacea - to all our ills.

When do you think he will have had enough time to help us make the decision on the coach? Or the FD as a whole?

Should we commit to any decision while the Dank controversy has yet to play out?

While so many scream at their computers and demand an action they haven't thought out and will not happen - ask yourselves where reality comes into the equation.

Agree with your post apart from this bit... They will overtake us with that this year, easily. Plus they have jumped in average attendance from around 19k to 30k this year, that will help their financials.

Good point, I overlooked their average attendance.

Youre right, their memebrship growth will destroy ours this year. We are looking at negative growth and since 2008 theirs has been consistantly positive.

I was going to include this years figures but there was too much of a difference between updated membership numbers.

Roughly we are at 30,500 and they are at 39,000

So negative for us and positive for them so far

It will be interesting to see their costs after this season though - if the SNAFL keep their grant at the same as last year - then I think, despite great membership growth and crowd attendance, they will still be in the red.

Maybe not by too much but you have to add the -$2m from last year.

Good point, I overlooked their average attendance.

Youre right, their memebrship growth will destroy ours this year. We are looking at negative growth and since 2008 theirs has been consistantly positive.

I was going to include this years figures but there was too much of a difference between updated membership numbers.

Roughly we are at 30,500 and they are at 39,000

So negative for us and positive for them so far

It will be interesting to see their costs after this season though - if the SNAFL keep their grant at the same as last year - then I think, despite great membership growth and crowd attendance, they will still be in the red.

Maybe not by too much but you have to add the -$2m from last year.

It's hard without knowing the numbers, but with their new sponsors, more members, and way higher attendance I would GUESS they would at least break even at worst.

It probably all depends on their form. If they keep winning then the crowds will keep coming and surely they'd have to make some money?

It's hard without knowing the numbers, but with their new sponsors, more members, and way higher attendance I would GUESS they would at least break even at worst.

It probably all depends on their form. If they keep winning then the crowds will keep coming and surely they'd have to make some money?

Youre right.

Performance is connected with attendance, memebership and sponsorship.

When Geelong won their last flag the following year saw a 20% jump in memership.

They shouldnt worry about wiping out their debt asap. They should have a 3 year plan, that way the footy department still gets an increase ect.

I mean whats the worse that could happen? SNAFL will just give them more money! and they have no risk of the AFL trying to move them because they are only licensed to them.

Youre right.

Performance is connected with attendance, memebership and sponsorship.

When Geelong won their last flag the following year saw a 20% jump in memership.

They shouldnt worry about wiping out their debt asap. They should have a 3 year plan, that way the footy department still gets an increase ect.

I mean whats the worse that could happen? SNAFL will just give them more money! and they have no risk of the AFL trying to move them because they are only licensed to them.

And they'll probably be even better off when they move to Adelaide Oval next year.

And they'll probably be even better off when they move to Adelaide Oval next year.

They will, and I bet they'll have a substantial increase in the crowd numbers as well.

Excellent sentiment.

We will be showing the door to some players ourselves.

And you specifically mentioned FA as THE exit.

You were using it to frighten people into believing that only immediate sackings will save the oh-so-awesome list as it stands today.

Some see Peter Jackson as the saviour - the panacea - to all our ills.

When do you think he will have had enough time to help us make the decision on the coach? Or the FD as a whole?

Should we commit to any decision while the Dank controversy has yet to play out?

While so many scream at their computers and demand an action they haven't thought out and will not happen - ask yourselves where reality comes into the equation.

Yes! Finally getting into my first demonland argument! I feel my life is validated!

I don't have the solution, nor should I. I pay my membership and rock up every week. That's my job and I do it well. I expect the same from my club.

I have a gut feel that Neeld can't coach. Am in the inner sanctum? No. All I see is on the field. And if this dispirited rabble is playing for the coach than I must be completely blind. Port is an example of a good coach turning things around. Neeld is an example of a coach destroying anything that was left.

How sad, I just turned over the MFC calendar for the change of the month and Clarky is pictured for May.

It means I have to sit at my desk depressed by being at work, looking at Clarky for a month with me being further depressed he's injured.

I confess to not having read a lot of this thread so apologies if this observation has been made before.

Neeld must go and he must go now and that was clearly demonstrated on Sunday when Moloney ripped us to shreds. Yes, Moloney is a B grade mid but he would be our best mid if he currently played for us with a coach able to utilize his skill sets. Voss has demonstrated this. Further Moloney clearly demonstrated why it is now impossible to judge our playing list. He showed that Neeld can't utilize mature players skill sets and we already know Neeld cannot develop youngsters. Few if any of our players has shown significant improvement under Neeld and a whole host haven't come on or gone backwards under his guidance.

Accordingly we can't judge our list and any new coach coming in would not be able to make LM decisions.

If Neeld were to be replaced now and an interim coach installed then there is a chance that we could see what some of the players could do. If that happens we are in an infinitely better position and if it doesn't then the new coach is in the same position as if Neeld coaches through to the end of the season.

Also if Neeld is replaced now there is a reasonable expectation that the damage he is doing to this group of players will cease. That would be a very good thing.

Of course there is a chance that Neeld will inspire this lot to great heights during the remainder of the season but given that after 27 coaching games he has one win against a non development club that would be wishful thinking.

Even more ideally is that we are looking for a new coach now and he takes over directly from Neeld. That would show some good fortune and excellent administration.

I have empathy for your points BB. There appears to be 3 'camps' on where things sit with Neeld. The worst of these is that the players are not listening, do not buy in and therefore don't play for the coach. The 2nd is that our list, due to past sins, not of Neeld's making, is just not good enough and therefore we just have to wait for yet another attempt at a re-build. And 3rd, if Neeld is not the answer, then there is no point in getting rid of him now, as that would only further destabilise a club, which has reeled from one crisis to the next.

I don't particularly subscribe to any of these views, simply because I do not know what the true situation is.

However, if the first scenario is true, then there can only be one remedy. As painful, uncomfortable and disturbing as it may be, the club would need to be purged. I have heard things, from the likes of "Caro's sources close to the club" about several players' parents being unhappy with the way their boys are being treated. I might say, these players are core and not fringe. If this has any substance at all, then action must be taken and it must be taken sooner rather than later.

Why doesn't the club sit Neeld down now and say 'these results are plain unacceptable, anyone can see that, so in fairness to you we need to see say 6 more wins between now and seasons end otherwise we will be terminating your contract'.

This way Neeld would be forced to throw out the development crap he's going on about and coach to win (I personally suspect he already is but just isn't up to it). If he thinks its unfair he can walk right now. We'll get to see whether he has any ability to organise and extract the kind of effort from the playing group that is required to at least compete in this league...

And 3rd, if Neeld is not the answer, then there is no point in getting rid of him now, as that would only further destabilise a club, which has reeled from one crisis to the next.

Further destabilize the club? Hell, this club at the moment is effectively in AFL administration and the we are so uncompetitive on the field we dread every game we go to and would settle for a 60 point loss to any reasonable opposition. Five goal losses against cellar dwellers is now a positive. Help me here?

Keeping Neeld is destabilizing the club - getting rid of him removes a clear hindrance. Neeld tried and failed, very sad but it's reality.

Why doesn't the club sit Neeld down now and say 'these results are plain unacceptable, anyone can see that, so in fairness to you we need to see say 6 more wins between now and seasons end otherwise we will be terminating your contract'.

Because we know he can't deliver.

Because we know he can't deliver.

Our list is capable of winning 7 games this season IMO. So why not demand it. If we managed Neeld out through this process we may save a little bit of face in terms of trying to retain some claim to being a stable employer for a future coach. It wouldn't be like we expected miracles from the guy...what is happening at the moment is unjustifiable!

Because we know he can't deliver.

So you didn't read any of the posts in this thread, just the transcripts from the last few Caroline Wilson articles.

"Moloney ripped us to shreds", I was waiting for the flashing lights, and the der de de der music, how over dramatic

There are 3 camps

!. Posters who hate everything and want to sack everybody

2. Posters who are swayed by the latest article or media commentary and paraphrase them whether true/factual or not

3. Posters who are still [censored] off by the way we are playing but listen and form their own opinions and think maybe yes there are issues but sacking a coach six games in, isn't the brightest thing to do, there is no guarantee the replacement could do a better job, let's leave it till the end of the season and see where we stand then, Peter Jackson will have completed his review and he will be ready to make recommendations, if a clean sheet is required then that can occur in September

Further destabilize the club? Hell, this club at the moment is effectively in AFL administration and the we are so uncompetitive on the field we dread every game we go to and would settle for a 60 point loss to any reasonable opposition. Five goal losses against cellar dwellers is now a positive. Help me here?

Keeping Neeld is destabilizing the club - getting rid of him removes a clear hindrance. Neeld tried and failed, very sad but it's reality.

Yeah it is and it will be interesting to see how things move from here on in.

I have come to the conclusion we need a temporary coach from outside the club.

I think someone like Ratten should be offered temporary senior coach till season end. If Ratten can prove himself, win 5 - 7 games (with an easy draw) he can get the role full time. If not we have 16 rounds to convince the best possible experianced coach to risk their reputation and come to the rabble called Melbourne FC.