Training - Monday 4th February, 2013

[waynewussell 5,380]

Stop crystal-balling Ben-Hur and do some genuine observation and research. You sound a lot like the so called footy journalists that have been covering the tanking investigation.

[waynewussell 5,380]

Those that have been to this pre-season down at the paddock will have observed the emphasis being put on Watts being the key backline distributer in match play simulations. He has been ear-marked for that role on the back of his good showing down back in 2012. He is a very important and valued cog in the resurgence of MFC in 2013.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Stop crystal-balling Ben-Hur and do some genuine observation and research. You sound a lot like the so called footy journalists that have been covering the tanking investigation.

Crystal balling ?

You're funny. You and so many others watch footy all year round yet have little more than a basic understanding of the game.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Those that have been to this pre-season down at the paddock will have observed the emphasis being put on Watts being the key backline distributer in match play simulations. He has been ear-marked for that role on the back of his good showing down back in 2012. He is a very important and valued cog in the resurgence of MFC in 2013.

I've been to more sessions than you. And yes, as I've previously said ad infinitum, I'd rather the ball in Watts' hands coming out of defence than any other player. That's not in dispute. His appetite for the contest is.

Thank God he's found a position on the ground that serves him well.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[Biffen 12,940]

This thread seems to be saying that Watts could be the next great blonde hope.i.e Sylvia.

I think Watts will meet the huge expectations he had on him at 17 .

He is classy ,fast ,strong ,and commits his body when it's his turn.(Despite rhetoric he is soft)

Both these guys have huge latent potential .

Maybe Neeld will help them realise it .

Watts and Gibbs have followed a very similar career path.Watts sh!ts on 'im.

[waynewussell 5,380]

Saying you have been to more sessions than me is once again speculative... Saying that Jack Watts won't be a major contributor to a finals campaign is also speculative. You are entitled to your opinion, but I offer you another that is at least as worthy.

[Grimes is Great 183]

Col Sylvia talks the talk - it's now time for him to back it up on field. Not on a Saturday night out.

Has all the skills, let's hope this year he will have a great yr!

[Demonsterative 3,020]

Crystal balling ?

You're funny. You and so many others watch footy all year round yet have little more than a basic understanding of the game.

Arrogance at its finest. If i was to translate this it would say

"I know more about football than you"

Unfortunatley BH, Your posts are speculative like all others. If you were as good as you say/think, the club would make you a paid employee. Not gonna happen!

[waynewussell 5,380]

Jack Watts didn't seem to underperform in big games before he was drafted.

Victoria regained its title as the pre-eminent junior football state when Vic Metro went through the NAB AFL
Under-18 Championships undefeated.

In coach David Dickson’s final game of a 12-year reign that produced eight Championships

crowns, Metro clinched the title with a decisive 29-point win against Western Australia.

After opening the Championships with a three-point win against Vic Country, thanks to

the heroics of subsequent Larke medallist Jack Watts, Metro grew in stature.

Subsequently, Metro toppled Tasmania by 67 points, South Australia by 53 points and NSW/

ACT by 51 points to set up a showdown with Western Australia. Thanks to the midfield

dominance of Mitchell Banner, ruckman Tyrone Vickery, wingmen David Zaharakis and

Sam Blease, utility Rory Sloane and Watts in attack, Metro was always in command.

Dickson said the narrow escape against Country propelled Metro to its Championships success.

“After that first match we did a lot of work on our deficiencies. In every game we had a belief that we needed to improve
in some form and to the boys’ credit they worked on rectifying it,” Dickson said.

[jumbo returns 6,740]

I'm afraid that people who don't see Jack Watts as a very good footballer are living in the past. I have confidence in that fact being very firmly established as the 2013 season unfolds. I'm not going to list Jack's positives here, but the list is significant. If you think the current coaching panel has reservations about his place on our list you are bordering on delusional. Think 6' 5", athletic, highly skilled, intelligent and coming into his prime...

The perfect attributes for a basketballer.

[Grapeviney 9,712]

The perfect attributes for a basketballer.

I'm convinced you had a bad basketball experience as a junior Jumbo - first your love of Stef and now Jack

By the way, when you said earlier in the thread that you look forward to revisiting this debate, I hope you meant it in the sense that you hope to be wrong, lest you seem to be wishing failure upon a player in which the club has much invested.

[jumbo returns 6,740]

I'm convinced you had a bad basketball experience as a junior Jumbo - first your love of Stef and now Jack

By the way, when you said earlier in the thread that you look forward to revisiting this debate, I hope you meant it in the sense that you hope to be wrong, lest you seem to be wishing failure upon a player in which the club has much invested.

Hmmm....you're probably right G. Perhaps there's some suppressed memory that needs to surface

The debate has remained amicable and intelligent.

JW was a poor pick, in a myriad of poor picks.

[Hannibal 5,814]

... Saying that Jack Watts won't be a major contributor to a finals campaign is also speculative. You are entitled to your opinion, but I offer you another that is at least as worthy.

Yes, it's called an opinion, but that opinion is heavily weighted by what I've already seen. And clearly you haven't seen what I've seen when you go to watch him play, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. And perhaps you don't appreciate the pressure of a final. If Jack gets found out in the physicality stakes during H&A, which he does, how do you think he'll go in a final ? He's coming from a long way back. It's not impossible, but it's hard to drastically change your DNA. And if you can't perform in a final you're as useful as a cold pie. I measure everything by how I perceive a player will perform in finals.

It's fair to say that I don't respect Jack Watts as a footballer one iota. I recognise his natural ability, which is why I was one of his staunchest allies pre-draft, but that talent was inherited. He had nothing to do with it. And to date he's done nothing with it.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[The Reverend 1,736]

He just hasn't performed.

You and I both know that.

I'm glad you survived your encounter with Lethal....he was hardest I've seen and I can see how your anecdote may relate directly back to a skinny JW.

But, many, regardless of size and mismatches, have shown early energy, angst and vigour. Alas, JW has a ways to go.

I doubt he'll make it at the MFC under Neeld.

You may be right but I'm the eternal optimist.

[tonatopia 278]

Watts is the perfect quarter back, afl style.

He will dominate.

[deeko 952]

Its a bit harsh on the comment that he had nothing to do with his talent and he has done nothing with it. I can think of a lot of talented people who have done less.

You made a comment BH the other day around JW picking and choosing the contests he was involved in. Watching some replays of the late in the year games and I do agree. He does some courageous things intercepting the pill but I don't think he has an ounce of the courage of what Rivers was doing on a consistent basis.

I was talking about this 'picking and choosing contests' with a friend tonight who completed a preseason with the bombers in the late 90's (never played a game). He was telling me even in training there early you went in and hard, practice drills hard. Practice matches hard and if there was at any time you didn't the likes of Wallis, Hardwick and Wellman would absolutely rip shreds off you, new recruits or not. In his opinion this is what made Lucas and Lloyd. Something our boy Jack never got the experience of.

Might have been hard on some but at least you knew the standards early.

I think this is something which Bails failed considerably at. He is a clearly a people person and respected but he became more a gentle father like figure to our recruits when we needed someone with a clearer tougher edge which I hope now we have.

Apologies to all further derailing a training thread.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

A guy who is 196cms, but only weighs 80kgs would be fearful of guys bigger than himself. Particulary playing in a KP and against the 1st or 2nd best KP player. But Watts is now 94kgs playing on a wing/HBF. He may not be a Jack Viney (a natural with contested situations), but he will learn this side of his game.

FFS, the guy was a year behind his draft year due to school commitments, and was forced to play a KPF role with Jurrah as his mate. This was never a way of winning a football game. He was always going to be bullied in this role. He has played half a season in the HBF role and some ride him off already. Give him the chance to prove himself before you judge him as a wingman/HBF er.

Davey in his prime was never a Bull at the contest, but used his pace as a tool to be defensive. Watts may find his way yet, out of a KP player role.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Its a bit harsh on the comment that he had nothing to do with his talent and he has done nothing with it. I can think of a lot of talented people who have done less.

You made a comment BH the other day around JW picking and choosing the contests he was involved in. Watching some replays of the late in the year games and I do agree. He does some courageous things intercepting the pill but I don't think he has an ounce of the courage of what Rivers was doing on a consistent basis.

I was talking about this 'picking and choosing contests' with a friend tonight who completed a preseason with the bombers in the late 90's (never played a game). He was telling me even in training there early you went in and hard, practice drills hard. Practice matches hard and if there was at any time you didn't the likes of Wallis, Hardwick and Wellman would absolutely rip shreds off you, new recruits or not. In his opinion this is what made Lucas and Lloyd. Something our boy Jack never got the experience of.

Might have been hard on some but at least you knew the standards early.

I think this is something which Bails failed considerably at. He is a clearly a people person and respected but he became more a gentle father like figure to our recruits when we needed someone with a clearer tougher edge which I hope now we have.

Apologies to all further derailing a training thread.

wallis hardwick or wellman giving you a serve would make any 17 yr old soil their undies. 3 superb clubman to have around some rookies id say. nice little insight deeko

[Grapeviney 9,712]

The debate has remained amicable and intelligent.

If only there was no debate, and that the question had already been settled in the affirmative that Jack Watts was among the competition's brightest young stars ..

We're not there yet unfortunately.

[stuie 7,374]

Yes, it's called an opinion, but that opinion is heavily weighted by what I've already seen. And clearly you haven't seen what I've seen when you go to watch him play, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. And perhaps you don't appreciate the pressure of a final. If Jack gets found out in the physicality stakes during H&A, which he does, how do you think he'll go in a final ? He's coming from a long way back. It's not impossible, but it's hard to drastically change your DNA. And if you can't perform in a final you're as useful as a cold pie. I measure everything by how I perceive a player will perform in finals.

It's fair to say that I don't respect Jack Watts as a footballer one iota. I recognise his natural ability, which is why I was one of his staunchest allies pre-draft, but that talent was inherited. He had nothing to do with it. And to date he's done nothing with it.

Doc!..... Doc is that you?! Get back into the Delorian, you're stuck in 2009!

[Hannibal 5,814]

A guy who is 196cms, but only weighs 80kgs would be fearful of guys bigger than himself...

You got that right.

But plenty, like Howe, Flower, Fyfe, etc. don't play fearfully, or are at least able to control their fear. Let's hope Watts learns to. I'm far from convinced.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Doc!..... Doc is that you?! Get back into the Delorian, you're stuck in 2009!

Is this some way of avoiding a discussion, but at least wanting to show some form of objection ?

You have a similar level of courage to the topic at hand.

[stuie 7,374]

Is this some way of avoiding a discussion, but at least wanting to show some form of objection ?

You have a similar level of courage to the topic at hand.

Says the guy bagging out a 21 year old player from the team he supports on the internet...

[Hannibal 5,814]

Says the guy bagging out a 21 year old player from the team he supports on the internet...

I call it as I see it. There'd be no-one happier than me if I didn't have to. But I don't gild the lily and I won't stick my head in the sand. And I'd happily say it to his or anyone elses face. Btw, many here know my identity.

I understand that plain speak isn't for everybody. Oh well.

[binman 42,691]

Crystal balling ?

You're funny. You and so many others watch footy all year round yet have little more than a basic understanding of the game.

Aw come on Ben i have only recently taken you off my ignore list for your repeated put downs of posters. You have much to say that is informed and informative - which can be lost in all of the 'I'm Ben Hur, i know football, you're not and you never will be nor will you ever understand football you cretin' chest beating braggadocio. You weren't a gangster rapper in the mid eighties were you?

What's this need to so frequently resort to cheap insults? (Td do you have theory?)