This is somewhat a continuation Srjennings "2013 realistic expectation" thread.

I have been sitting on these thoughts for a few weeks and I think we can break it up into a few key questions:

(Bump the thread and please PM me if you want to incorperate others into the first post).

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year.

2. Who do you think will take it to another level?

3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth?

4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long?

5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who the the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder?

MY ANSWERS:

1. Over the last decade and a bit we have always seen huge amounts of media hype linked to the high end draft picks and gun father-son selections. We often see links to the games current stars like Judd, Ablett, Cotchin etc. Although as history shows time and time again their first seasons are usually quite short of spectacular (AFL top end star) but nothing more than the odd signs of stardom. So in regards to Viney or Toumpas I will be very pleased if they average/ game ~ 20 disposals and ~ 3 tackles. I hope to see Toumpas run and carry whilst burning off his opposition, and Viney obtain some of those incredibly hard gets. Anything above those stats and signs I will be over the moon. AS for Hogan I just hope he can take enough marks, split packs whilst with the big lads and kicks straight.

2. I think it's time Trengove takes it to another level. So far I'm pleased with his progress unlike many others but I hope he follows in the footsteps of Nathan Jones's 2012 season. I think his start to the season will be slow due to his injury interrupted pre-season although I hope he gets up to ~ 24-25 disposal mark for at least the second half. As for Jones I hope he steps it up another notch again. Furthermore I would love to see Grimes spend more time in the mid, and not have to go back as much on the basis the backs are holding up and don't need him. I also look forward to seeing Clark again, hopefully he can get a full season out of 2013 and maintain that excellent for we saw for the first part of 2012.

3. One key name comes to mind here and that is Chris Dawes. At first I was completely against getting him in but as time persists I'm seeing the positives of the recruitment. With that said he's on a pretty penny. It's been stated he'll be a permanent full forward I expect ~ 45 goals form him (far beyond his 32 career best). Now I think this is a reasonable ask, it's ~ 2 goals a game if he gets a full injury free season, and that the midfield can deliver. I'll leave D-Rod, Byrnes, and Gillies for you guys to start

4. Two people come to mind here and that's Sylvia and Davey. As we know Sylvia is highly talented but does not apply it on a consistent basis. The training and frame work is in place, the expectations from Neeld and co. are there, the Party Boy mob is split (Moloney gone, Russian tied the knot)and he is now one of the more mature team members. It's time he pulls his finger out and show why is was a No.3 draft pick. (With all that said he is still one of my favorite players).

5. Summary: If things fall into place and we stay relatively injury free, I hope to see Sylvia and Grimes spend most of their season through the mid. I hope to see the big forwards hold up well (Clark & Dawes) with the likes of Byrnes, Blease, Howe and Pedersen within a close proximity. If two of the new mature recruits explode like Mitch Clark last year I will be STOKED.

So where do we finish, as long as we beat GWS, GC, WB, BL, PORT, ESS and St.K (on their way down), and give RICH, NM, FRE a run for their money I'll be very happy.

CHEERS! ESSAY WRITE AWAY

ignition.

Edited December 17, 201212 yr by ignition.

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year.

Leaving Hogan aside , Viney and Toumpas to both play well enough to not come under consideration to be dropped

2. Who do you think will take it to another level?

Trengove , Watts , Sylvia (surely!) , Tom McDonald , Jones and Tapscott .

3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth?

Dawes

4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long?

Sylvia (he needs to play predominantly in the midfield as he did for the last part of 2012) . Could also be a case of 'He is what he is' and accepted accordingly .

5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who are the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder?

10+ wins . We need to at least have a break even win/loss ratio against the Lions (play twice), Dogs (play twice), Freo (play twice), Tigers , Blues , North , Bombers , Saints and Port . That's at least 6 wins if my maths is correct Couple that with 4 wins against GWS and GCS and that gives us a total of 10+ .

It is achievable ... if we only get 8 wins it will have a air of dissatisfaction to it even though we only won 4 games last season . I don't particularly like crystal ball gazing but 14 losses just doesn't cut it whichever way you look at it .

Edited December 19, 201212 yr by Macca

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year.

Both play 15-18 games, remain uninjured, and finish Top 5 in Rising Star.

2. Who do you think will take it to another level?

Jack Grimes. On the back of his first full season, hopefully he now has the confidence to rely on his body, and tear teams a new one. He is a very good player, but we need him to be a great player. If he can work on reducing his turnovers due to ppor skills over the summer, he could be anything with another 20+ game season.

3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth?

I'm going to throw Magner and Couch in here. They both need big year's to earn a spot on the senior list in 2014.

4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long?

Rohan Bail. A favourite on here, but I expect better from him. Lucky Gysberts was delisted otherwise I wouldn't have known which one to put here.

5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who are the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder?

We SHOULD expect to win the 4 games against the franchise clubs. We SHOULD expect to win our "home" games against Port and Brisbane. We win against Essendon most years lately, and I think we should seriously play St Kilda and Western Bulldogs with a winning hope. Not sure how many games that gives us, but they are the ones I expect. This will show how much we have improved over the summer, but it'll be the games against Geelong (we had them for 3 quarters down there this year), Carlton, Richmond and Kangaroos that I will pay very close attention to just to see how much work between the ears Neeld has done on some of our players.

Edit - was a bit generous in the Geelong game this year. We were in the game up until 3/4 time.

Edited December 17, 201212 yr by billy2803

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year.

Enough to be considered a game. Treat them like any other player, if they dont deserve a game then back to the vfl.

But 10-15 consistent games I think should be a pass mark highly rated first year players.

I'm really excited about Hogan, hope he shows what has been said about him in the vfl. pack splitting, hard working chf.

2. Who do you think will take it to another level?

Love to see Jonesy go to another level, seems determined to keep improving. I think Howe will show the football world that he is more then a more aerial threat and a real talent that take games apart.

3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth?

Dawes. On the big coin and cost the club a 1st round pick.

4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long?

Bail. turns the ball over a hell of alot but keeps getting games, due to depth though. I really like him I hope he makes it.

5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who are the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder?

If new recruits all prove to be good pick ups, especially Dawes helping out Clark in the forward half. And the hopeful improvement of the midfield and defence, 10 wins is definitely not out the question. This will get us in the top half of the bottom 10 on the ladder, hopefully a few surprise wins against a few flag challengers and maybe we could think about finals. You never know

Im not really shore if Essendon are on there way down.

But I'm with you for the rest of the stuff.

Viney will probably be managed in 2013 and not overworked but I expect, injury permitting that he will play 18-20 games.

Toumpas is harder to gauge but if he plays 10+ games that would be great for him.

I would love to get more from the 22-25 year olds: Dunn, Nicholson, Howe, Strauss, McKenzie, Jetta, Bail, Spencer and Garland to contribute more, or more consistently. If one or two of Clisby, Terlich, Jones, and Pedersen can join Dawes as regulars in this bracket then that will help. I predict that Dunn, Nicholson, McKenzie, Bail, Garland, Terlich and Pedersen to deliver more than they have (or more than we are used to from the 'replacement player') - and that should help the team as a whole.

Dawes will need to prove he is a player of some note but the pressure is no more on him than a few other players I can reel off.

We have plenty of 'under the radar' (I don't know if this term is used correctly here but I know where the OP is coming form) players... Sylvia is the biggest stealth bomber in the land. Dunn is up there. Strauss, Tapscott, Gawn, Jetta, Bail, Davis, and Fitzpatrick would want to begin to show something in 2013.

As for wins - I am not the person to talk to about it because I don't care. There is so little difference between an 8 win season and a ten win season that includes a couple wins over terrible teams that it is meaningless to me. I hope we can excite the fans and win all home games against interstate teams, and beat the Bullies and the like a few times...

...you know, get back to the halycon days of the Bailey years... (IWUAEHIIUE)

Jones has stepped up. We have a bunch of mid-tier players that need to do the same. Bail, Dunn. Jordie etc

I am hopeful that their new levels of fitness, crystal clear expectations and increased levels of hardness at the contest coupled with some leadership on field (finally) will mean we leave the bottom reaches of the ladder for a longtime.

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year.

Hogan to make an impact at VFL level and show he is ready to step up in 2014. Both Viney and Toumpas have some senior experience and should become regulars. Viney, like Toby Green this year to make an impact from game one. Kent, Barry and Taggert to push for senior selection.

2. Who do you think will take it to another level?

Trengove , Watts , Tapscott , Blease take it to another level. Clark (a revelation last season), Jones, Howe and Tommy Mc to keep improving their game.

3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth?

Dawes & Pederson need to show why the FD has placed a lot of faith in getting them to the club. Not to prove his worth but I think Terlich will be a surprise packet.

4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long?

Sylvia, probably not under the radar but really needs to step up this coming season. Davis needs to get senior game time or move on. Strauss needs to show what he can do and use that kicking skill to advantage.

5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who are the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder?

Move into a level with teams like North, ST.Kilda and Richmond. Hold our own against the power clubs and maybe pick up a win or 2 there. I don't want to see us getting blown away by Hawthorn anymore or any other team for that matter.

Edited December 19, 201212 yr by rjay

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year.

Leaving Hogan aside , Viney and Toumpas to not come under consideration to be dropped

...........

Surely they must be played, or not played, mainly on form and on merit

Are you suggesting a return to the widely criticised Bailey plan of "getting games into kids regardless"?

That said, I would be fairly confident that they will both play the majority of games, possibly all, on merit.

Surely they must be played, or not played, mainly on form and on merit

Are you suggesting a return to the widely criticised Bailey plan of "getting games into kids regardless"?

That said, I would be fairly confident that they will both play the majority of games, possibly all, on merit.

I think he was going along the lines of, these high picks earning their spots in week in / week out so that we don't have to consider dropping them.

Surely they must be played, or not played, mainly on form and on merit Are you suggesting a return to the widely criticised Bailey plan of "getting games into kids regardless"? That said, I would be fairly confident that they will both play the major ity of games, possibly all, on merit.

Lol - no 'monoccular' , I meant that both play well enough to not be dropped .

I should have worded it better - fixed original post

Edited December 19, 201212 yr by Macca

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year.
I expect Viney to cement himself as a midfield starter quickly. He has been in the system training with us for a year, and has a fantastic work ethic and hunger for a contest.
I expect Toumpas to play a decent number of games and show some of the run and class he's known for.
I expect Hogan to start learning the key forward role against men in the VFL, and be ready to debut in 2014 after a year in our system.

2. Who do you think will take it to another level?
Sam Blease. As he gets fitter and is able to spend more time up the ground he will really tear teams apart. He already showed on a number of occasions this year that when he gets the ball he is dangerous, whether it's providing run or nailing goals.
Trengove could also have a good year if his injury isn't too bad. He worked hard last year under duress and trying circumstances. He did all the team things, the defensive things, but offensively he wasn't very effective. I hope he can find a balance between offensive and defensive and become the player we need him to be.

3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth?
Pederson. We traded away Gysberts and downgraded a pick for him. He's 25 years old(?) and has barely played any AFL games, so IMO he needs to cement a spot fast or we've stuffed up there.

4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long?
Dunn. You'd think if he doesn't have a good year he's a good chance to get delisted like Bate was.
Strauss needs to show us those elite kicking skills we've heard about for years now.
Bail needs to cement a spot and not turn it over repeatedly.

5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who the the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder?
We need to play finals. We've been a pissweak [censored] team for years now, and frankly it's gone on too long. The supporters of our club deserve better. We've given lots of our money through Debt Demolition, not to mention all the passion and time showing up to games over and over knowing you'll be destroyed and questioning why you bother at the end of it all. Sitting in the cold rain watching your team get belted by another rubbish team infront of 15,000 people is not an enjoyable experience. Ever. I have barely enjoyed watching this football team for years, so it's time I get some pay off on everything I've invested for the last few decades!
Finals is a pass. Anything less and I'll just about be done. A few years ago I expected us to be a flag threat by 2014. Now we're more of a threat to win another spoon and it's embarrassing and pathetic. We need to beat teams like St Kilda, Richmond, Bulldogs, Port, GWS, Gold Coast, Brisbane, North. It shouldn't be hard. Hell we did most of that during the Bailey years.
Give me finals and wins!

Edited December 19, 201212 yr by Lord Travis

Im not really shore

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year.
For 2013? Not really fair to expect a whole lot from either. One looks likely to rip it up from round 1 which would be awesome and a bonus but not something to be expected.

2. Who do you think will take it to another level?
Cameron Pedersen is the big one, was ecstatic to get him on the list and think he has a whole lot more to offer than most realise, Leigh Brown is the perfect coach for him. Blease, McDonald, Tapscott and Tynan are the young players I'd say will really step it up a notch or 2 next year.

3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth?
Whoever needs to will and whoever doesn't wont.

4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long?
Neville Jetta, saw more in Bennell than I did in Jetta. I really hope he has a big year and justifies his spot but I'm not overly optimistic.

5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who the the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder?
The root of all disappointment, putting expectation on games to be won and ladder position. I just hope for and expect an outfit far more competitive than 2012's effort. Beating more than 1 Victorian club is manadatory, that's a huge part of why 2012 was so embarrassing.