Thanks BH, a very (un)productive response.

I'd like to see if you can step away from the counter of your Mr Whippy van and give me some response to my Kent comments. Cheers.

Mr Whippy van ?

My ignore list gets bigger and threads easier to navigate. Thanks.

Fan,

I agree about Sylvia and don't consider him significant.

I haven't seen you at training this year. The difference is stark. I don't think you're a huge fan, but I reckon Viney is going to be a major player in changing the midfield dynamics. I hope I'm right.

Mr Whippy van ?

My ignore list gets bigger and threads easier to navigate. Thanks.

I must ask this. Why do you "ignore" posters? I would have thought a bit of argie bargie and putting the knife in was much more fun.

I must ask this. Why do you "ignore" posters? I would have thought a bit of argie bargie and putting the knife in was much more fun.

For some of us it is the very bridge we live under.

Why ignore when you can hang around for deride.

I must ask this. Why do you "ignore" posters? I would have thought a bit of argie bargie and putting the knife in was much more fun.

There are not many opinions I "rate" and it doesn't take long to work out the lightweights. If posters continually post stuff that my 12 year old would roll their eyes at then enough is enough. Or when I'm followed around like a puppy dog enough is enough.

I keep Biffen around as a lesson to my children.

Agree. Richmond are Cotchin and Deledio ahead of us and that's a very substantial lead. After that it's pretty well matched. Sure we've got Viney and Toumpas coming through now but they've got Vlastuin and Conca in the hopper and who's to say at this stage who'll turn out better? They seem to have Dom Tyson on ice for next year but there's plenty of water to flow under that bridge. They've also plugged key holes really well recently with I.Maric and Chaplin and they look solid enough ruck, forward and back. I think the Tigers are travelling pretty well.

I think thats right. It will take time to have the Vineys and Toumpas take our midfield to the top level.

Poor choice of words to describe Dom Tyson at Richmond.

Yes it can turn around quickly but sometimes it doesn't. In the Trengove thread you've used exactly the opposite argument to suggest Trengove is not abnormal. Viney and Toumpas seem to be our best chances of "star" mids and they are 3 years away. Many of the players you've quoted from other clubs have had terrific players around them, we don't. Let's hope we can pull a couple out of the bag but you and I are in agreement that it could be another 3 years. Given we've been crap for 6 that's a long wait.

I'd have thought 10 wins is quite possible given that we have 2 games against GWS, GCS, BL, WB and Freo.. That's 8 very winnable games if we are any good and not exceptional particularly seeing we won 8.5 games in each of 2010 and 2011.. Anything less would be disappointing.

Our fixture is generous this year and barring injuries/suspensions, 8 wins should be the benchmark for 2013. But if it clicks we could get up to 11 wins in my opinion. It would be a welcome change too from past years.

It would be nice if Watts fulfilled his potential this year. He could be very useful in the midfield.

Carlton had 4 wins in 2007 and 10 in 2008 on the back of Judd and improvement from a young Murphy and Gibbs.

We don't have a Judd, but we have a better back-line and forward-line than they did. Ten wins is quite realistic imo and should be the goal with an easy draw.

Fan,

I agree about Sylvia and don't consider him significant.

I haven't seen you at training this year. The difference is stark. I don't think you're a huge fan, but I reckon Viney is going to be a major player in changing the midfield dynamics. I hope I'm right.

I haven't been to training this year but if there is a session before Christmas with the new blokes I might go for a look.

I hear what you say about training but I could find the same comment last year and for most years before. Training is like dancing with your sister - it's not until you measure up against the opposition you know how you're going. The fact that (for example) Rodan looks great is because he's got no genuine quality opposition. Would he look great against Pendles, Swan, Sidebottom and Beams? He wouldn't be anywhere near their list and they are who we are competing with.

Bar Dawes I don't see what we've really gained from last year. Byrne, Rodan and Petersen are depth players - Byrne at a powerhouse, Rodan at a terrible club and Petersen at a middle club. They cost us nothing (we didn't want Gysberts so the cost really was nil) so I'm happy that we have some mature players who can play a bit and protect the kids but expecting them to have a significant impact against good clubs is stretching it a bit. The young kids are just that and I think the possible areas of meaningful improvement are in the existing 2 to 4 year players who have a lot of upside. I also like that Neeld has a list on his page now and he is leaving no stone unturned. We won't be left wondering.

I am a fan of Viney but there are many in the industry who weren't, I don't know what they think now. I think his rating may have increased significantly later in the year but I'm guessing. I've seen him play about 2 or 3 games and only one live so I'm in no position to judge, particularly since I don't watch any under age footy other than the Nationals on TV and have no benchmark. His attitude is uncompromising and he will demand a lot of those that play with him. I'm hopeful but I don't expect a lot in his first year. But having said that his first year is more like a second year given he has been groomed for R1 for 2 years so he will be very well prepared.

I hope you're optimism is well placed Ben, I'm sick of the crud we've put up with for 6 years but until our stars have 80 games we won't be where I want to be. I want to be optimistic but experience tell me that his time of year is fools gold.

Which teams are we going to go past next year? With our midfield it's hard to find many.

Yeah, training is like dancing with your Sister, but she's had a makeover this year.

There are not many opinions I "rate" and it doesn't take long to work out the lightweights. If posters continually post stuff that my 12 year old would roll their eyes at then enough is enough. Or when I'm followed around like a puppy dog enough is enough.

I keep Biffen around as a lesson to my children.

There's every chance I'm on your "ignore list" BH, but I'm interested to know why you find it necessary to consistently put others down for doing the same thing that you are doing...sharing their views and opinions.

I couldn't give a rats if you don't rate my opinon, I rate mine and that's all I care about. Sometimes others rate my opinion, sometimes they don't.

I made reference to the Mr Whippy van as you mentioned a few weeks ago you owned your own business a couple of hundred metres from AAMI Park. The fact that you have ample time to go to training made me wonder what sort of business you could own in that area that would allow you to have so much free time. I immedaitely thought that it wasn't a successful one, and that your time would be better spent generating income for yourself, but I chose the "lightweight" option in Mr Whippy.

And sorry, no, I don't follow you around like a puppy dog, and I don't think anyone else on here does. It's an internet forum with many, many threads about the team we all love (most of us). Any new ideas, information, theories, opinions etc, are always an interest, so we will read everything that is posted. The fact that you've been very vocal in your criticism of Watts, and to be honest, quite tiresome with your views, will always be in my mind should he reach the heights that we will need him to to assist us in winning our next flag.

I don't have anyone on an "ignore list", I value and respect everyones opinion even if I don't agree. And to be honest, I don't understand why we have an ignore list in the first place. It's another thing for fl0gs like Ben Hur to compare sizes with. Obviously if you're bragging about the size of your "ignore list" you are severely lacking in other areas. I find it hard to believe how someone so arrogant can be so insecure.

Richmond rookie draft Petterd, Lonergan and Stephenson - that improves their immediate depth.

Richmond rookie draft Petterd, Lonergan and Stephenson - that improves their immediate depth.

No young(ish) blokes. They are "going for it" but haven't even made finals yet. They could fall flat on their faces here? Would be god to watch

Richmond rookie draft Petterd, Lonergan and Stephenson - that improves their immediate depth.

Some time ago I did the figures and they had a very young list with a small (by AFL standards) number of games. I think they probably feel they have enough talented youth on their list and want to bolster it with some experience. It's pretty much what we did with Byrnes, Rodan, Petersen, Jones and to a lesser degree Terlich.

Anything but finals for them in 2013 would be unacceptable.

Anything but finals for them in 2013 would be unacceptable.

There's going to be a fascinating logjam for finals in 2013 - none of the 2012 finalists will expect to be out and all of Essendon, Carlton and Richmond will expect to be in. St.Kilda felt they should have been in last year and their stars haven't gone yet - they'll reasonably be aiming for finals too. There's going to be some carnage I reckon as clubs fall short of expectations.

I haven't been to training this year but if there is a session before Christmas with the new blokes I might go for a look.

I hear what you say about training but I could find the same comment last year and for most years before. Training is like dancing with your sister - it's not until you measure up against the opposition you know how you're going. The fact that (for example) Rodan looks great is because he's got no genuine quality opposition. Would he look great against Pendles, Swan, Sidebottom and Beams? He wouldn't be anywhere near their list and they are who we are competing with.

Bar Dawes I don't see what we've really gained from last year. Byrne, Rodan and Petersen are depth players - Byrne at a powerhouse, Rodan at a terrible club and Petersen at a middle club. They cost us nothing (we didn't want Gysberts so the cost really was nil) so I'm happy that we have some mature players who can play a bit and protect the kids but expecting them to have a significant impact against good clubs is stretching it a bit. The young kids are just that and I think the possible areas of meaningful improvement are in the existing 2 to 4 year players who have a lot of upside. I also like that Neeld has a list on his page now and he is leaving no stone unturned. We won't be left wondering.

I am a fan of Viney but there are many in the industry who weren't, I don't know what they think now. I think his rating may have increased significantly later in the year but I'm guessing. I've seen him play about 2 or 3 games and only one live so I'm in no position to judge, particularly since I don't watch any under age footy other than the Nationals on TV and have no benchmark. His attitude is uncompromising and he will demand a lot of those that play with him. I'm hopeful but I don't expect a lot in his first year. But having said that his first year is more like a second year given he has been groomed for R1 for 2 years so he will be very well prepared.

I hope you're optimism is well placed Ben, I'm sick of the crud we've put up with for 6 years but until our stars have 80 games we won't be where I want to be. I want to be optimistic but experience tell me that his time of year is fools gold.

Which teams are we going to go past next year? With our midfield it's hard to find many.

Don't underestimate the influence an injection of new players can have on a stale, lacklustre group that have been losing badly for several years.

The changes to our list have been huge as much as Neeld likes to play it down. Look beyond the 'numbers' Rodan, Byrnes or Dawes will have in the first game they have for our club. The bigger picture has little to do with that.

We are changing our culture and mindset. The enthusiasm and inspiration of players has sky rocketed. We have gotten rid of selfish players in Moloney and Green. We are re-learning the work ethic needed to win games of football.

This is not just bringing in a few new faces. The MFC are going through consciousness shift. You're blind if you can't see it.

You're blind if you can't see it.

I can see that every effort is being made to change things. I'm just not expecting big changes next year on the back of our recruiting because the potential is all youth based. One isn't even playing until next year.

Last year we weren't even competitive. We've got to make up that deficit and more to start winning games.

Richmond rookie draft Petterd, Lonergan and Stephenson - that improves their immediate depth.

Lock in 9th Eddie...lock it in !!

I can see that every effort is being made to change things. I'm just not expecting big changes next year on the back of our recruiting because the potential is all youth based. One isn't even playing until next year.

Last year we weren't even competitive. We've got to make up that deficit and more to start winning games.

Well I am expecting big changes next year based on the mix of experience and youth that has been injected. As I said, that doesn't mean that I think Dawes will be kicking bags of 6 every week and Rodan will be amassing 30 possessions etc.

It's the breath of fresh air that will lift the group as a whole. It's what we've been crying out for.

We will be big improvers in my eyes next year.

"I find it hard to believe how someone so arrogant can be so insecure"....

to paraphrase the psychiatrist on Fawlty Towers

"there is enough material on this board to occupy a whole conference"

13th in 2013 would be a decent result - it would put us at the head of the teams not expected to play finals.

13th in 2013 would be a decent result - it would put us at the head of the teams not expected to play finals.

I think any finishing position would need to be "draw adjusted". Our's couldn't be easier.

Last year Brisbane finished 13th on 10 wins, I'm expecting them to improve. I'm not expecting us to pass any of those top 13 teams from last year (as I posted 12 of them EXPECT to be playing finals) and for us to win 10 games would be a good effort. For us to finish 13th we'd need to have a good year and one of them have a bad year which is reasonably likely.

http://www.afl.com.au/ladder

These are a few of the reasons I think we will have a 'good' year, I don't expect us to make finals, pleasant if we do, but we will improve

Rodan - out to prove he is not finished

Byrnes - ditto

Dawes - prove Collingwood wrong, has carte blanche to crash and bash

Viney

Jones

Toumpas

Frawley

Grimes full preseason again

The fierce competition for every spot

Last year Brisbane finished 13th on 10 wins, I'm expecting them to improve. I'm not expecting us to pass any of those top 13 teams from last year (as I posted 12 of them EXPECT to be playing finals) and for us to win 10 games would be a good effort. For us to finish 13th we'd need to have a good year and one of them have a bad year which is reasonably likely.

http://www.afl.com.au/ladder

Im not, and they will lose alot in 2 years or so when Black, Brown and Merrett are not on the list, they lack proven talls imo, they stocked up a few this draft but it takes 4-5 years if they are good enough.

Im not, and they will lose alot in 2 years or so when Black, Brown and Merrett are not on the list, they lack proven talls imo, they stocked up a few this draft but it takes 4-5 years if they are good enough.

I'm expecting them to improve next year.