Took the Lions fans till 2011 to realise they weren't gonna get any more flags for another decade (or two).

Wow those Lions membership figures tell a lot don't they.....

30% drop off over one summer!

"It just don't add up..."

Edited December 4, 201212 yr by why you little

Brisbane and Port must be worrying the AFL

$4.6 million between them, if my memory serves me I think they had similar results in 2011.

How long can these teams keep on keeping on?

Mine is not a popular view but I struggle with the competition having 18 sides

There should be one in QLD and one in SA and seven in Melbourne.

Of course the only way the Vic numbers will change is if teams go broke.

From what I can recall it's the third year in a row Brisbane has posted a seven figure sum in the red. Last year they posted a $1.9 million loss, now $2.5 million loss this year.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lions-to-post-loss-of-more-than-2-million-20121003-26zqo.html

I think the Key to this is, that the Queensland and South Australian contribution with extra teams to the broadcats rights is worth far more than 3-4 million a year

And sydney for that matter

Here is their membership history over the past 5 years:

2008, 23,073 [+0.03%]

2009, 26,324 [+12.3%]

2010, 29,014 [+9.3%]

2011, 20,792 [-39.5%] - boom

2012, 20,762 [-0.14%]

I hereby name thy period from 2009 to 2011 the Fevola effect.

Rhino is the only one who seems to have a problem woth FH $$$

I hope it becomes an annual event.

It should.

I dont have a problem but you have a problem because you dont get the point as usual.

I trust you will dip in each year WYL based on your own standards.

The club done well to make make a small profit under difficult circumstances this year, congratulations to all involved.

Wow those Lions membership figures tell a lot don't they.....

30% drop off over one summer!

"It just don't add up..."

They also took another 30% drop from 2005 - 2007

If you look over the past 10 years they have had significantly more members for 7 years... Reflects well for our supporters given everything we have gone through since 2008

The club recieving donations is actually a sign of it's strength and sustainability.

It means that there are people out there who love the cub and have the $$ and willingness to contribute, we all know that it is not easy to stop loving your club.

Well done to the whole club for keeping it ticking along in this tough period. With good business decisions and some footy success the future will be rosy.

Edited December 4, 201212 yr by dandeeman

Maybe we could play Carlton and Essendon as home games at the G for a change. That'd tip another 250000 into the coffers. The whole game is bent to push money to the rich. It's the same model all corporates use whilst bemoaning handouts to the poor. The worlds a wacky place.

I trust you will dip in each year WYL based on your own standards.

Of course i will dip in. Only way the club will get better.

How 'bout you Rhino?

I dont have a problem but you have a problem because you dont get the point as usual.

But what is your point Rhino?

The club made a small profit in the worst year i believe in its history apart from the 2 wartimes & you are still moaning about handouts & donations & that FH is not sustainable.

FH is far more sustainable than Etihad Stadium deals.

We made a little profit...Smile

Do you know how?

But what is your point Rhino?

The defence rests your Honour. LOL Need you prove anymore that you dont get it.

I note it does not stop you seeping more irrelevant dross that does little to plug a yawning gap in fundamental skill sets.

Whilst it's correct to say that a profit figure in one particular year can easily be manipulated by accounting trickery, I think it's also folly to come to any conclusions about the club's financial security based on this set of results alone. Although I'm not an accountant, I would have thought that this could better be assessed by looking at its balance sheet which I understand will be released shortly. From what I recall of the recent figures, we've gone from somewhere in the region of $5m in the red to an amount in excess of that in the black in a very short space of time which I consider to be a monumental feat given the club's insipid on field performances during the same period.

Granted we have to continue to work hard as a club to increase revenue streams and that won't be easy in the current climate.

I would have thought the rules are pretty tight under the Corporations Act Jack. And financial health can be assessed from considering both the balance sheet and the profit and loss.

The season should have demonstrated that the Club's financial position remains fragile.

Your last sentence is the dilemma the Club will face. It cant always rely each year on members gratuities to turn a small profit from a 10 fold sized loss.

There is no doubt that the balance sheet will be healthier than it has been in living memory - it was last year and - assuming that the quotedfigures include "Other Comprehensive Income and Expenses "this year's result will only improve that. Having demolished the debt, we have eliminated the hefty annual interest charge we used to have to absorb

I have no problem with AFL special distributions being included - because I think they can properly be regarded as recurring.If the $700k raised from the Foundation Heroes was genuinely raised to assist with next year's salary bill, then under accounting standards there is a strong argument to say that the income should be deferred and brought to account next year. I will be interested to see if it has somehow been deemed revenue of 2011/12.[As if you hadn't guessed from all my boring posts , I suppose I'd better fess up to being an accountant!]

Even if the $700k has somehow been included in this year's result,I am pleased that we have finished in front. With a relatively low membership, the early loss of a key sponsor and a dreadful year on the field - the club has done well to stay in the black - particularly in the tough economic conditions Victoria has experienced.The fact that we did so despite lifting football department expenditure makes it even better.

If we improve on the field , we should be able to lift revenues next year - even if the $700k has already been taken up and is not repeated .............. as long as the AFL doesn't beat us up for tanking!!

The key thing that makes the balance sheet more healthy has been the maturation of the Bentleigh deal that was started by Gutnick and was carried on by the next 3 administrations.

Do you want to quote the accounting standard? If the donations are received in 2012 with no strings attached for their repayment and are banked within the Club then they should be recognised as received. What it is used for particularly if used for the largest operating expense in the Club should be irrelevant. I know how the Tax office would deem it.

The sense of this will be missed by those bemused by smoke and mirrors.

The FH $700k is not something we can rely on every year and we need to keep pedalling one offs to squeeze a "profit"

As always you look at the elements of the profit figure not just the PR bottomline number.

RR - I single this post out as i find it the most interesting.....

Do you care to eleborate on the 'smoke and mirrors' you refer in this post??? I ask as for me as the amount of 'Profit' is irrelavent - I have not seen the financial statements for this year so I simply see as the 'Proift' as the club collected more money then it spent. (i do not consider it cash flow as i do not know the accounting policies applied by the club)

What I care about is the ability for the club to fund the footy department and operations and feild a competitive team. Apart from our poor form on the field for the better part of the past 5 years can you point out where this board has been incompitent??

I would have thought generating income - no matter how it is acheived would be an important function of any board

Cheers

RR - I single this post out as i find it the most interesting.....

Do you care to eleborate on the 'smoke and mirrors' you refer in this post??? I ask as for me as the amount of 'Profit' is irrelavent - I have not seen the financial statements for this year so I simply see as the 'Proift' as the club collected more money then it spent. (i do not consider it cash flow as i do not know the accounting policies applied by the club)

What I care about is the ability for the club to fund the footy department and operations and feild a competitive team. Apart from our poor form on the field for the better part of the past 5 years can you point out where this board has been incompitent??

I would have thought generating income - no matter how it is acheived would be an important function of any board

Cheers

Great call mate.

RR were are you?

The small profit that is heralded is backed by the generousity of the FH member group that prevented a loss ten fold the size of the profit. That is credit to the members generousity not the efforts of the Board. I dont think its sustainable year after year. The costs of football clubs is rising. We need to develop more sustainable lines of revenue

The role of the Board is to develop a sustainable business model that allows the club to generate sufficient income to fund a business operations. I am concerned that we have not achieved that. Can you point out where I have said the Board is incompetent (and its not incompitent)??

Great call mate.

RR were are you?

Great post mate.

I am here. Where are you?

Smoke and Mirrors are cool .

Love em both .

Especially the mirrors.

700k is a pi55 in the ocean from our coterie .
If times get tough we will dig deeper till we get a flag .

Thats what functional clubs do.

We probably have the same financial resources amongst our supporter base as Collingwood does in its .

Most of ours has been obtained by white collar crimes which just goes to prove the motto

"Blue -Collar crime doesn't pay".

The small profit that is heralded is backed by the generousity of the FH member group that prevented a loss ten fold the size of the profit. That is credit to the members generousity not the efforts of the Board. I dont think its sustainable year after year. The costs of football clubs is rising. We need to develop more sustainable lines of revenue

The role of the Board is to develop a sustainable business model that allows the club to generate sufficient income to fund a business operations. I am concerned that we have not achieved that. Can you point out where I have said the Board is incompetent (and its not incompitent)??

Great post mate.

I am here. Where are you?

I will start by saying that I interpreted your criticism of the board as you meaning they were incompitent - i apologise if i misrepresnted you

I will not comment if the club has a sustainable business model as I haven't done enough research to form an opinion. For me as long as the board represnts the club in professional and integril manner and is able to fund and support a successful team - i really don't care about any of the politics

Profit for a non profit organisation is a dick measuring competition - it means nothing - all the money should go to the club anyway (I understand the club is run as a business now run in a corporation and not as a non for profit - and I re-iterate I have not seen the financials to give a fully informed view)

But you stated in a post earlier that the club turns over $30 mil (again i apologise if i got it wrong) but $700k from the foundation of hero's is just over 2% of the funds earned......... surely to compensate such a loss of income the club simply wouldn't spend the money......

I do not understand your argument regarding the FH income or profit - the profit simply means we earnt more then we spent (from my interpritation)

I dont' see how the FOH income effects sustainibility (2% of income shouldn't affect our ability to exist just less cash to spend)

Can you please elborate - i apologise if i missed the point

Edited December 4, 201212 yr by Unleash Hell

The small profit that is heralded is backed by the generousity of the FH member group that prevented a loss ten fold the size of the profit. That is credit to the members generousity not the efforts of the Board. I dont think its sustainable year after year. The costs of football clubs is rising. We need to develop more sustainable lines of revenue

If you have a membership that cares enough and has the resources to support the club surely that is a strength and not a weakness. Is it not part of the board's job to extract the dollars from it's membership and corporate supporters? It's a credit to the board and those who support the club.

With the crud of a year we had to get 700k out of the FH is outstanding. You don't throw up that coin unless you believe in the direction of the board,coach,club and players. The board and FH should be congratulated for this.

Not if we achieved it by not prepaying whatever remaining salary cap we had available. We undoubtedly had a shocking year for attendances and I suspect given our draw for next year we'll have another in 2013. I don't know how you can make the comment about sponsorships because AFAIK those figures aren't available.

Look, I'm not knocking it but all I'm saying is we don't know what it means. But if expenses and incomes were recognized normally I'd bet a fair bit we actually made a loss. The question is "how much".

No of course you're not; are you. I reckon if we'd made $1M profit you would find something wrong.

As Biffen said if you're that bitter and twisted either find a club that you would actually support, or run for the board.

If you have a membership that cares enough and has the resources to support the club surely that is a strength and not a weakness. Is it not part of the board's job to extract the dollars from it's membership and corporate supporters? It's a credit to the board and those who support the club.

Yeah-I'm just happy we got all our draft picks ,paid off Cams House ,got a great new desk and cashed in twice on Scully .

Caro would be frothing and smearing her lipstick all over her face with a crumpled photo of Schwab in her hands r

ight at this moment .

So we post a profit of $77,000 and Fan is wondering what the loss actually is ? A minor matter, but friends of the previous Board rarely fail to amuse.

As WJ asserts, I believe the Bentleigh Club puts our assets at around $6mil. That doesn't compare too badly with the Dogs, who are $10mil in the red, and many other clubs with millions of dollars worth of debt that they're currently servicing.

I agree that we don't want to have to rely on FH every year, but it's fantastic that there's a group of well-heeled supporters that appear to be in for the long haul.

I'm certain of two things when it comes to the MFC. Firstly, if Gardner was still at the helm our debt would still be at least $5mil and probably worse, and secondly there'd be no FH at all, whose support has been invaluable. It's amusing how Gardner supporters like to poor cold water on this last achievement by constantly questioning its ongoing reliability. I understand their concerns, but I also understand their concerns. Too cryptic for some ?

In words Fan will understand, "Keep up the good work".

I don't know why we look at the FH money and say "we can't rely on FH money".

I will never see it as a "given" and am extremely grateful to the wealthier benefactors who tip large sums in regularly and do not downplay this generosity - but we are not the only club that do this and get this kind of support. Collingwood and Carlton are extremely well fed by FH type donations.

We should be the kind of club where its supporters are happy ( well..maybe willing is a better word) to contribute and strive to make the club stronger.

Exactly, the more success the club has the more people will want to be involved; the money raised so far has been during some of the darkest times the club has faced. Fan and his friends would like to hope it will be a short term thing but rest assured the FH dinner will be on again next year and the next....

Smoke and Mirrors are cool .

Love em both .

Especially the mirrors.

700k is a pi55 in the ocean from our coterie .

If times get tough we will dig deeper till we get a flag .

Thats what functional clubs do.

We probably have the same financial resources amongst our supporter base as Collingwood does in its .

Most of ours has been obtained by white collar crimes which just goes to prove the motto

"Blue -Collar crime doesn't pay".

That's a pretty offensive post, even for you.

That's a pretty offensive post, even for you.

I do what I can .

I was attempting to offend the Carringbush bunch but may have achieved some colateral damage in the process.

No offence to those Demons now serving time for fraud or tax evasion.(Please continue to give generously).