I reckon Jack has the talent. It's just now, I hope, that Ron Barassi's maxim 'Natural ability is nothing to be proud of. It came through the eye of your (second part of sentence withheld).'

Watts lacks courage in the air - a lot. This is very difficult to pick up on tv, unless it's blatant. If you go to games and don't think he picks and chooses his contests, especially marking when he knows he'll be hit from behind, then you don't watch footy intelligently.

It's the reason he was dropped to Casey this year and the reason he's been shunted to a half back flank. I think he's a far better player in the back-line. It's easier to play footy behind the ball.

He's on the wrong trajectory for that in my eyes, but I hope you're right.

Classy Nasher and point well made. Demonland would be all the better for responses such as this rather than the usual abrasive put downs that seem to be the norm.

In regard to his trajectory i would say however that whilst it hasn't been particularly steep (like Hill for instance) it has been on a pretty a steady upward angle (unlike Rich for instance), which is a little boring but if it continues will put him in a pretty good place in 2-3 years time.

Edited November 21, 201213 yr by binman

Geez Watts cops a bagging.

What have Kruezer and Patten done?? Sweet FA.

Geez Watts cops a bagging.

What have Kruezer and Patten done?? Sweet FA.

Coming off a knee and in his first year Patton should have been "bagged" ?

Classic Demonland.

Edited November 21, 201213 yr by Ben-Hur

Geez Watts cops a bagging.

What have Kruezer and Patten done?? Sweet FA.

He's a lightning rod for MFC fans that's for sure.

He is still pivotal to our future and that is why he is in the minds eye of every supporter.

He will be a great HBF I reckon, if he works on some key issues.

Coming off a knee and in his first year Patten should have been "bagged" ?

Classic Demonland.

clutching at straws to bag one of your own players - classic demonland

clutching at straws to bag one of your own players - classic demonland

Give me an example of "clutching at straws" ?

You have my undevoted attention.

John James of Carlton won the brownlow in 1961 as a half-back flanker

Fred Goldsmith won it in 1955 from full back.

Give me an example of "clutching at straws" ?

You have my undevoted attention.

yeah yeah you're the only person here who 'watches footy intelligently' and you can find an excuse for Patten but not for Watts

Watts = Brendon Goddard: # 1 draft pick; roaming from defence thru middle to forward to kick the odd goal

Watts = Luke Hodge: #1 draft pick; running out of defence to set up mids and forwards

Watts = Herd: ? draft pick who roamed the whole ground

Jack is built like Herd, plays the same role as Goddard and can become a Hodge. Jack is elite. Just give him time and space folks.

Watts = Brendon Goddard: # 1 draft pick; roaming from defence thru middle to forward to kick the odd goal

Watts = Luke Hodge: #1 draft pick; running out of defence to set up mids and forwards

Watts = Herd: ? draft pick who roamed the whole ground

Jack is built like Herd, plays the same role as Goddard and can become a Hodge. Jack is elite. Just give him time and space folks.

I reckon Jack will be a good player for us and maybe even elite but Hodge he will never be, Hodge has a thirst for the contest that is innate, Jack doesn't have it. Some think he has to have it to be a champ, I don't but he does need to work a lot harder on his second and third efforts and he has to develop his attack at the contest consistently.

Jack has elite skills, speed and decision making, let's hope he reaches his full potential.

Why do so many say that Jack Watts has to play FWD. Just because we initially drafted him with that in mind does not mean it has to stay that way. There are countless examples of players in the AFL who were drafted as one thing and now play successfully in a different role. If Watts becomes a premier running half back with silky skills that can read the play, evade opponents and hit targets then who really cares what he was drafted for. He will be a quality asset to our club who will play an important role.

I still think he'll go forward again. He's not a great man on man defender but he is extremely good as a loose man but he'll be forced to body up eventually. You may say our forward line is too full now, but our defence is even more so. Gillies, Dunn, McDonald, Garland, Frawley, Sellar are all tall defender size (191cm or over), plus Joel Macdonald and Grimes and that's 8 backmen who we'd have in mind of playing. I think Watts will have a better chance to make an impact at half forward

I reckon Jack will be a good player for us and maybe even elite but Hodge he will never be, Hodge has a thirst for the contest that is innate, Jack doesn't have it.

mate I really hate this kind of talk, i just hear some hack commentator talking when I read it. Whether there is any truth to it or not, can you really tell me there is a significant correlation between this 'thirst' and being a valuable player? I tell you what, I have seen a buttload of Demons come and go that were plenty 'thirsty' and did stuff-all with their time on the field.

yeah yeah you're the only person here who 'watches footy intelligently' and you can find an excuse for Patten but not for Watts

Patton has played all of 7 games. There's his "excuse" right there.

Watts is at 55 and counting .... we continue to wait .... and wait.

1995 a 21 year old half back makes the all australian team

1996 he goes fwd to fill a hole in the team, kicks a few goals and stays there the remainder of his career.

you probably know him as Neita.

even if Watts is a year or 2 behind in maturity (everybody is unique), I would be happy for him to acheive a statiscally level equilivant of 60% of Neita. why 60%? The game has changed, there are no more Lockets and Dunstalls. Thats why Matty Lloyd (who kicked a few in his time) finished up. He would have played another 2-3 years if was in the 80's era of stay at home FF's.

as for being 50 gamer 21 year old, think of the 200+ game greats in any position, and its not there first 50 games that come to mind.

mate I really hate this kind of talk, i just hear some hack commentator talking when I read it. Whether there is any truth to it or not, can you really tell me there is a significant correlation between this 'thirst' and being a valuable player? I tell you what, I have seen a buttload of Demons come and go that were plenty 'thirsty' and did stuff-all with their time on the field.

Mate, if you read my whole post you will see that I agree with you. It is not a knock on Jack it is that he approaches the game from a different point to Hodge (another post said he could become a Hodge type), he has the ability to set up the game like Hodge but he will do it in his way, he is quicker and taller than Hodge and could really cut the game up if he reaches his full potential.

Watts is not a number 1 draft pick any more, he's a Melbourne player.... So move on! If u accept that you would be pretty happy

That we have a 21 yr old playing, elite skills, speed, evasive and has the potential to play any position on the ground.... Get around him and encourage rather than the kid constantly being bagged. My opinion is he will turn into an afl elite, versatile and very tough to shut down as he can move anywhere on the ground.

He's not a great man on man defender but he is extremely good as a loose man

Correct. He plays his best footy without an opponent.

Correct. He plays his best footy without an opponent.

Really? Wasn't his 3 Brownlow vote game the Essendon match? He wasn't a loose man then. He played on their small forwards (Jetta, Davey) and just ran off them to make space.

Correct. He plays his best footy without an opponent.

BH that just not true. As Neeld and Watts both pointed out last year Watts did not play as a loose man so it's strange that the idea he did persists (particularly from dees supporters). '

His ability to zone off and intercept the ball is a skill that takes courage, judgement and skill . When he does so he is still accountable for his man and so to do so is inherently risky as it leaves his opponent free. Few players have the nerve or skill to do that which is where the comparisons to Goddard come in.

So given he has played his best footy down back and he has an opponent i would argue that in fact he plays his best footy with an opponent.

Correct. He plays his best footy without an opponent.

BH that just not true. As Neeld and Watts both pointed out last year Watts did not play as a loose man so it's strange that the idea he did persists (particularly from dees supporters). '

His ability to zone off and intercept the ball is a skill that takes courage, judgement and skill . When he does so he is still accountable for his man and so to do so is inherently risky as it leaves his opponent free. Few players have the nerve or skill to do that which is where the comparisons to Goddard come in.

So given he has played his best footy down back and he has an opponent i would argue that in fact he plays his best footy with an opponent.

Agree, binman.

If joeboy was to do his patented rating system on Land posters - BH would get: Just needlessly flippant.

Haha. He got towelled up by Stiffy Johncock. He gets to stand on players like Sunny Walters. It's embarrassing.

He has enormous talent, but I have no respect for what he's got out of his first 4 years, or how he goes about his footy. When he *earns my respect I'll let you know.

*And yes, I know that earning my respect means diddly.

His ability to zone off and intercept the ball is a skill that takes courage, judgement and skill . When he does so he is still accountable for his man and so to do so is inherently risky as it leaves his opponent free. Few players have the nerve or skill to do that which is where the comparisons to Goddard come in.

That's all very nice Binman, but the next step is winning a contested ball, which he clearly does not do often.

He is not a natural contested footy winner and is far too conscious of the man. So unlike most other elite talents, he needs to force himself to improve this area.

It has been four years and we have only seen unsustained and gradual improvement. So we wait.

Edited November 22, 201213 yr by dandeeman