Look Stuie i agree to an extent. I think it would be a shame for him not to fulfill his obvious potential at the dees. I guess where where we differ is i am assuming Neeld has worked really hard this year with all the players, including Gysberts. The time and resources have been put in this year and a year is long enough to reach conclusions. Why is another year necessary?

The injury is a furphy to an extent. Yes it would have impacted on his fitness etc but you don't think how he went about his rehabilitation would have been considered by the club in their assessment of his work ethic? Compare his scenario to Bartram. Barty barely played all year due to injury but his work ethic has never been questioned and i would be shocked if he is cut (maybe made a rookie?).

Instructive also is a comparison with Blease who seemed to have switched on mid season and responded to the development provided by the club. Neeld was effusive in his praise for this and i suspect this was not just about pumping up his tyres.

I hope Gysberts has a road to Damascus moment and convinces Neeld he is up for it. Then follows through with the commitment

Nice one mate. I think this particular year is a hard one to judge his playing ability etc, but definitely enough to asses his attitude etc, so if he's packed off then I guess it means he's just one of the many happy just to be an AFL player. If he's kept around I have high hopes for what he may become.

About the only thing I can summise that we all might agree upon is that an In-form, fit and hungry JG would be an assett to the side.

What we'll never align on perhaps is the how or when , or indeed if , of that. Gotta love footy and forums...lol

No, it indicates his market value based on this year. Dawes was worth pick 20, but for some reason Collingwood still let him go, wouldn't you think they would hang on to a player valued so highly? Flawed logic mate.

Not sure what you are talking about with Dawes.

Jordan's market value in 2009 was pick 11.

Jordan's market value in 2012 appears to be worth a pick in the early 30's

To me this is a decline in his "market value" and a result of him not performing as we (and the rest of the market) assumed he would when we picked him up in 2009.

Whats flawed in that logic?

Not sure what you are talking about with Dawes.

Jordan's market value in 2009 was pick 11.

Jordan's market value in 2012 appears to be worth a pick in the early 30's

To me this is a decline in his "market value" and a result of him not performing as we (and the rest of the market) assumed he would when we picked him up in 2009.

Whats flawed in that logic?

You've changed your criteria mate. First you said it was indicative of his attitude etc:

"On available evidence, Jordie is being shopped around for a worse pick than we paid to recruit him.

That seems to indicate to me that the MFC are disappointed in his progress/attitude/whatever, despite injuries etc..."

I really just don't get the fuss about this kid, he reminds me of Dexys Midnight Runners!

( some of you might struggle with that, others get it in a flash....c'mon )

Oh C'mon Eileen.

This is a good test for Neeld, can he actually coach a player into form and confidence or does he simply ship out anyone that's too much work for him?

Agree. That's what I have been saying. Lets develop this kid.

Not sure what you are talking about with Dawes.

Jordan's market value in 2009 was pick 11.

Jordan's market value in 2012 appears to be worth a pick in the early 30's

To me this is a decline in his "market value" and a result of him not performing as we (and the rest of the market) assumed he would when we picked him up in 2009.

Whats flawed in that logic?

If the draft this year and the club's list were to be exactly the same as in 2009 then yes, your logic would be correct PRB. But the draft throws up a completely different mix and quality this year and we (and all other AFL clubs) have different list needs and priorities. His value this year cannot be compared to where he was picked up, it's not apples and apples. For example, a pick around 30 seems more highly valued this year than previous, partly because there are 2 new teams in the comp, maybe also because there are so many different compo picks floating around.

I have neither been critical or complimentary of JG but I am damning of this post.

No, it is not up to Neeld to coach a player into form and confidence - it is up to the PLAYER to play with form and confidence. When a player is out of form and confidence do we simply blame the coach because its too much work for a footballer to actually take responsibility for his efforts and form ????

Disagree. We are a football club. Everyone is in it together. Part of being a good Coach is to get the best out of his footballers. That doesn't happen by him simply telling everyone to do their best. It is a joint effort. It is the "buy in" we are hearing about.

Good coaches understand their players and get the best out of them. If their best is not good enough, then they are moved on.

Does the kid have the application & drive to want to succeed?

If not he should never have nominated for the draft.

I don't care what his injuries have been or are. They are part of the game every year.

Just like players worth gets inflated when trying to trade them, so does a players worth when arguing to keep him on the list..

Gysberts was a shock pick 11 when we selected him, but has obviously got football talents.. 2 years on the list now, we have seen no where near enough of them.. for whatever reason he has not been able to cement a spot..

There is only a 3 maybe 4 in the top 10 of the 2009 draft that have really delivered already on their potential..

IMHO.. i think he deserves one more year.. get body / attitude right have a crack.. if it does not work out then so be it..

Does the kid have the application & drive to want to succeed?

If not he should never have nominated for the draft.

I don't care what his injuries have been or are. They are part of the game every year.

We should have probably delisted Grimes a couple of years ago then hey WYL....

Too simplistic a view mate.

Guy doing the live chat on Superfooty, in answer to a question on Gys staying, emphatically said "he'll go".

if Guy said it then that's that - gorn

Guy doing the live chat on Superfooty, in answer to a question on Gys staying, emphatically said "he'll go".

been a lot of waffle on that chat though. All candy floss imho

Guy doing the live chat on Superfooty, in answer to a question on Gys staying, emphatically said "he'll go".

Lol.. Seems legit...

Does the kid have the application & drive to want to succeed?

If not he should never have nominated for the draft.

I don't care what his injuries have been or are. They are part of the game every year.

Within reason WYL, they all want it and it's one thing to do it at underage level and think yes I can do this. Play every week recover and get the body right for the following weeks match

You don't know how badly you really want it till you are challenged beyond your comfort zone. Anyone who has trained at a high level or done endurance events will tell you there are freaks who can just do things beyond others, but by and large we can all get to a certain level before you hit the wall and need to go beyond points you have ever been. this is all in the mind and in a persons make up. I hear landers saying you can't train this and that is correct to a point but I break it down to two scenarios.

a) Some have it but because they are good at a junior level they don't realise how much they want it till they get delisted or realise I have been in the system for a few years now and I am going nowhere, they get told by the coach/fd or even family members (eg Tim & Jobe Watson) your wasting this chance and need to decide what you want.

B) The Dane Swan's, Sam Mitchells and others of the footy world not gifted with size, speed or genuine elite athletic builds who have throughout junior footy always had to give their all and it is just part of them that is apparent I would guess from the day that turn up at their first pre season after getting drafted.

Those players who push themselves beyond the limit running till you drop vommitting and getting back up to keep running and get yourself fitter. That is what seperates being talented to making the grade.

If the draft this year and the club's list were to be exactly the same as in 2009 then yes, your logic would be correct PRB. But the draft throws up a completely different mix and quality this year and we (and all other AFL clubs) have different list needs and priorities. His value this year cannot be compared to where he was picked up, it's not apples and apples. For example, a pick around 30 seems more highly valued this year than previous, partly because there are 2 new teams in the comp, maybe also because there are so many different compo picks floating around.

I hear what you are saying in regard to the additional teams etc... on one level, However, just like the property market may change over the years, it is not unreasonable to conclude you've done a bad deal if a house you purchased in 2009 for 1.1 mill is worth half as much 3 years later (even assuming deflation of 10% p.a. as a result of the two new clubs).

Same year we picked up Gysberts at 11 we picked up Tapscott at 18.

If Tapscott was on the market would we be asking for a higher than pick 30 in this draft? I think so, primarily because he has done enough to maintain his value. Jordan has not, as yet, warranted his high draft position in 2009.

You've changed your criteria mate. First you said it was indicative of his attitude etc:

"On available evidence, Jordie is being shopped around for a worse pick than we paid to recruit him.

That seems to indicate to me that the MFC are disappointed in his progress/attitude/whatever, despite injuries etc..."

No change in criteria just a train of thought that you are unwilling or unable to follow:

1. MFC are disappointed in his progress/attitude/whatever, despite injuries etc...

which leads to ...

2. "a result of him not performing as we (and the rest of the market) assumed he would when we picked him up in 2009"

or put another way

3. '" a decline in his "market value"

Good coaches understand their players and get the best out of them. If their best is not good enough, then they are moved on.

So if they are moved on, is it the coaches fault that the best is not good enough or the players - my argument has always been that the players gets far too much of free ride and the coach usually gets the blame for players "not good enough". Prime example is Royal getting it in the neck that he cant coach because of our poor midfield - yet Nat Jones won our B&F and was rated top 50 in the H&S where he wanst previous seasons (someone on here put up the convincing argument that it was all due to Neeld not Royal....pffft)

No change in criteria just a train of thought that you are unwilling or unable to follow:

1. MFC are disappointed in his progress/attitude/whatever, despite injuries etc...

which leads to ...

2. "a result of him not performing as we (and the rest of the market) assumed he would when we picked him up in 2009"

or put another way

3. '" a decline in his "market value"

Captain Hindsight and his sidekick Revision right here....

Captain Hindsight and his sidekick Revision right here....

and if he gets traded, you'll be?

and if he gets traded, you'll be?

Errrrr..... what should I be?

I've said in this thread that if he goes it probably means he's not up to it and just happy to be in the AFL and I would stamp his bus ticket.

Captain Hindsight and his sidekick Revision right here....

I figured you too would be using his performance since being drafted to the AFL as an indicator of his progress.

Just in case you missed it... Jordan Gysberts' contribution to the MFC in 2012 was 1 game for 9 disposals, and the MFC finished 16th.

Prior to that he was doing OK

2011 - 15 games 19.4 ave disposal. MFC finish 13th

2010 - 3 games 21 ave disposal. MFC finish 12th

I figured you too would be using his performance since being drafted to the AFL as an indicator of his progress.

Just in case you missed it... Jordan Gysberts' contribution to the MFC in 2012 was 1 game for 9 disposals, and the MFC finished 16th.

Prior to that he was doing OK

2011 - 15 games 19.4 ave disposal. MFC finish 13th

2010 - 3 games 21 ave disposal. MFC finish 12th

Soooooo injuries don't matter? We better trade off Gawn and Bartram quick sticks then, and that hack Clark for only playing half the season...

Soooooo injuries don't matter? We better trade off Gawn and Bartram quick sticks then, and that hack Clark for only playing half the season...

You are clueless, he played 14 games for Casey.