Maybe G Lyon should have spoken to R Lyon after all!

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

Ross and Freo had secretly agreed to the deal. Remember this is the coach who didnt even tell his manager what he was doing. So dont blame Garry. He tried but Ross was the Freo coach already. No one knew about it yet. Seriously move on.

Do you know roughly when the agreement took place? Was it before 186?

[Johnny Karate 559]

Seemingly this thread is where facts come to die, so I don't know why I'm bothering....

1. Ross Lyon was contracted at St Kilda for 2012 (albeit with an exit clause that allowed him to sign with Freo in Sep 2011)

2. Garry Lyon & Ross Lyon shared the same manager at the time. So effectively Gaddy would've had to have done a Ross to speak to Ross - if y'all catch my drift?

Ross Lyon is a highly regarded coach in AFL circles for a more than a few reasons. His W/L record is enviable & he has a pretty strong reputation for adding steel to teams with a soft underbelly. MFC should've approached him, but to blame G Lyon is disingenuous, blame the people that made him make that call when he was hopelessly compromised. In all fairness though perhaps they saw the fact that Garry & Ross sharing the same management was an advantage. Who knows? What does it really matter now? Spiltmilk.gif

For those who are genuinely interested in the ins & outs of the topic please read the 'Due Diligence' thread. I expect the hand wringers, knee jerkers & factually deficient will continue to start more garbage Weltschmertz polls & threads though.

[deejammin' 2,185]

Yes it is. He wasn't a competent person to make the coaching decision. Paul Roos said on OTC "melbourne should call Ross". But our Garry knew better. Too clever to listen to Ross Lyon's best mate giving a none too subtle hint. Garry Lyon is to blane and is a total incompetent in administration matters.

Reality: pick up phone, call Ross Lyon, ask him personally. Find out his deal with Saints not sealed. Make an offer. Be professional and gutsy in your search. Like Freo. That's reality champ. Lyon's effort was pathetic.

But you're right, it is history now.

The fact is I doubt you know what happened with Gary and Ross, I seriously doubt that no person representing MFC ever contacted Ross personally, I also don't doubt for a second that he said he was staying at the Saints. He wanted Freo, he got Freo, behind his managements back. MFC would have spoken to him, deal with it.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

The bottom line is we should have spoken to Ross Lyon but we didn't.

Fremantle win. Ross Lyon is a top line coach.

I hope Mark Neeld reaches the same level.

[Biffen 12,841]

We could have got Plugger back in '84 from North Ballarat but nobody thought to aks him .Idiots.

[deejammin' 2,185]

The bottom line is we should have spoken to Ross Lyon but we didn't.

Fremantle win. Ross Lyon is a top line coach.

I hope Mark Neeld reaches the same level.

WYL more often than not I enjoy your contribution to this site, even though we don't always agree, but on this issue I think you are wrong, I know multiple people from Melbourne would have spoken to Lyon personally. The fact is he said he was staying at the Saints, whilst simultaneously having done a deal with Freo.

Who knows when? Maybe early in the season while Bailey still had a chance to keep his job, as I have said in the other thread on this topic Lyon was playing a game with no rules, there were no offers and counter offers, no way for any club to know what was going on except Freo, it is guess work to say Melbourne had a chance to usurp them and it is naive to think no-one from our club spoke to him.

He lied, Freo were underhanded, most of the football clubs and admins were upset by the way it unfolded. This one is not the clubs fault.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

WYL more often than not I enjoy your contribution to this site, even though we don't always agree, but on this issue I think you are wrong, I know multiple people from Melbourne would have spoken to Lyon personally. The fact is he said he was staying at the Saints, whilst simultaneously having done a deal with Freo.

Who knows when? Maybe early in the season while Bailey still had a chance to keep his job, as I have said in the other thread on this topic Lyon was playing a game with no rules, there were no offers and counter offers, no way for any club to know what was going on except Freo, it is guess work to say Melbourne had a chance to usurp them and it is naive to think no-one from our club spoke to him.

He lied, Freo were underhanded, most of the football clubs and admins were upset by the way it unfolded. This one is not the clubs fault.

I am not saying the club was at fault. Ross was a free agent. He went to Freo. He could have come to the MFC.

He is a top line coach. This is an example of a club sayimg "F$&@k protocol" we want the man. The Dockers of today are a lot different from a year ago. Why? Because they were proactive.

Freo made the jump. We haven't.

[Blistering 538]

Does anyone know whether Garry Lyon approached Tom Hafey about the Melbourne coaching job?

If not, I think we're all entitled to know why not?

After all, Hafey is a successful premiership coach and was probably available.

[McQueen 17,864]

WYL more often than not I enjoy your contribution to this site, even though we don't always agree, but on this issue I think you are wrong, I know multiple people from Melbourne would have spoken to Lyon personally. The fact is he said he was staying at the Saints, whilst simultaneously having done a deal with Freo.

Who knows when? Maybe early in the season while Bailey still had a chance to keep his job, as I have said in the other thread on this topic Lyon was playing a game with no rules, there were no offers and counter offers, no way for any club to know what was going on except Freo, it is guess work to say Melbourne had a chance to usurp them and it is naive to think no-one from our club spoke to him.

He lied, Freo were underhanded, most of the football clubs and admins were upset by the way it unfolded. This one is not the clubs fault.

Spot on.

I'm unable to locate the article but there was a full two page spread in the west Australian soon after Lyon moved to Perth. Basically saying that he wanted out of Melbourne due to some pretty upsetting family circumstances, financials, and the other st kilda stuff with the school girl.

There was never any chance of Lyon coaching Melbourne. To suggest that it was a failure by G Lyon and the club in general is ridiculous.

Get over it and let's get on with it.

[Hannibal 5,814]

If anyone was in doubt about the importance of structures and game-plans they should no longer be. Lyon has brought defence, accountability, zones, work ethic, etc to what in the main is a mundane group.

He's arguably the best coach in the competition.

I hope Neeld clears a lot of the nay sayers around the club, because until he does they won't be on the same page. Twice in his retirement speech Green spoke of "buy in", which can only mean plenty of players hadn't. I have no doubt that this is one of the main reasons for our diabolical season. He needs everyone pulling in the same direction.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I am not saying the club was at fault. Ross was a free agent. He went to Freo. He could have come to the MFC.

He is a top line coach. This is an example of a club sayimg "F$&@k protocol" we want the man. The Dockers of today are a lot different from a year ago. Why? Because they were proactive.

Freo made the jump. We haven't.

Not having a crack at you wyl but as posters have said before, the bold section is where you and this thread are wrong... he wasn't a free agent, he didn't make himself available and St Kilda expected him to coach them in 2012.

Eitehr way - lets pretend for the sake of argument that he was 'available' and mentioned he wanted to move

1/ He was interested in money which I highly doubt the MFC could afford to pay him

2/ Freo's list is far superior at the moment to where the MFC's is

There is probably a 5% chance of Ross choosing Melbounre based on those facts - as i've heard whispers that Ross's move was motivated by cash

Anyway I agree Ross has been a great coach for Failo - he's kept them playing good footy, hardened them up and brought in his defensive wall and its working well for Failo

This is why we have brought in Mark Neeld - have faith people

Edited September 9, 2012 by Unleash Hell

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

If anyone was in doubt about the importance of structures and game-plans they should no longer be. Lyon has brought defence, accountability, zones, work ethic, etc to what in the main is a mundane group.

He's arguably the best coach in the competition.

I hope Neeld clears a lot of the nay sayers around the club, because until he does they won't be on the same page. Twice in his retirement speech Green spoke of "buy in", which can only mean plenty of players hadn't. I have no doubt that this is one of the main reasons for our diabolical season. He needs everyone pulling in the same direction.

Spot on BH

I personally think Neeld will coach a lot like R Lyon - hard nosed with a defensive mind set, and as you rightly pointed out I don't think there was a total player commitment.

The irony of this thread is we are talking about a coach who has pretty similar traits to our current coach - the main difference (ignoring list types of players) is Freo are a developed committed list where we are reling on young blokes to lead the way

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

Not having a crack at you wyl but as posters have said before, the bold section is where you and this thread are wrong... he wasn't a free agent, he didn't make himself available and St Kilda expected him to coach them in 2012.

Eitehr way - lets pretend for the sake of argument that he was 'available' and mentioned he wanted to move

1/ He was interested in money which I highly doubt the MFC could afford to pay him

2/ Freo's list is far superior at the moment to where the MFC's is

There is probably a 5% chance of Ross choosing Melbounre based on those facts - as i've heard whispers that Ross's move was motivated by cash

Anyway I agree Ross has been a great coach for Failo - he's kept them playing good footy, hardened them up and brought in his defensive wall and its working well for Failo

This is why we have brought in Mark Neeld - have faith people

I think Mark Neeld could be a great coach in the mould of Ross Lyon. I have no probs with our coach.

Lyon was a free agent for the right price. It was easy to see all last year.

The suprise was how he got to Freo. I heard it unfold on the radio.

If Lyon had come to Melbourne i doubt our results would be much different. But i consider Ross to be the best in the game.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

No problem with that wyl

I personally don't think the MFC could afford Ross's salary but I agree with you - Freo are a danger this year.

Ross has been impresive this year - and brought some of that underhand conspiracy to his coaching as well haha. How good is Pav though a great leader and got the players to 'buy in' to the coach... another element we are lacking here at the MFC haha

[w00dy 146]

The key reason why freo talked directly to Ross was that they couldn't approach his manager as he also managed Mark Harvey. The conflict of interest would've been too much and potentially killed the deal. Nothing wrong with the MFC talking to his manager, and not the man himself, these were just very unusual circumstances.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

No problem with that wyl

I personally don't think the MFC could afford Ross's salary but I agree with you - Freo are a danger this year.

Ross has been impresive this year - and brought some of that underhand conspiracy to his coaching as well haha. How good is Pav though a great leader and got the players to 'buy in' to the coach... another element we are lacking here at the MFC haha

We lack so much. I am more than happy that our list is turned over savagely.

The mining industry have helped Lyon's wallet so yes you are probably right. We did not have the cash at the time.

But it is probably a reason why Mclardy has made a point to "fill the war chest".

If the MFC is to improve it is going to cost top $$

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

We lack so much. I am more than happy that our list is turned over savagely.

The mining industry have helped Lyon's wallet so yes you are probably right. We did not have the cash at the time.

But it is probably a reason why Mclardy has made a point to "fill the war chest".

If the MFC is to improve it is going to cost top $$

Which again is why R Lyon would not have come to the MFC if he made himself available.

It will cost cash but you also need quality people.... I know it's too early to tell but I am still happy with the Neeld, Mission and Craig combo. I think they all bring something the MFC hasn't had for a while. Hardness, high proformance & elite training

Only time will tell - but if last year's recruiting is anything to go by I trust Neeld and co to make tough decisions and back themselves to get the right ppl/players in as well

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

Which again is why R Lyon would not have come to the MFC if he made himself available.

It will cost cash but you also need quality people.... I know it's too early to tell but I am still happy with the Neeld, Mission and Craig combo. I think they all bring something the MFC hasn't had for a while. Hardness, high proformance & elite training

Only time will tell - but if last year's recruiting is anything to go by I trust Neeld and co to make tough decisions and back themselves to get the right ppl/players in as well

So do i.

The transformation of Fremantle last night was fascinating as their "culture" is/was very similar to ours...flaky at best.

[Face Your Demons 175]

Freo had a shocking run with injuries last year. Don't put too much in what Lyon has done this year. He is still a [censored] in my eyes.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

Freo had a shocking run with injuries last year. Don't put too much in what Lyon has done this year. He is still a [censored] in my eyes.

Yes but no one has EVER taken Fremantle seriously. Particularly at the MCG.

who cares if Ross is thought of as a [censored]?

He is a fierce competitor...like him a lot.

[Pipefitter 2,139]

I think Melbourne wanted either lyon or malthouse, but let's be realistic. We couldn't afford either.

[titan_uranus 24,631]

The bottom line is we should have spoken to Ross Lyon but we didn't.

Prove it.

I am not saying the club was at fault. Ross was a free agent. He went to Freo. He could have come to the MFC.

He is a top line coach. This is an example of a club sayimg "F$&@k protocol" we want the man. The Dockers of today are a lot different from a year ago. Why? Because they were proactive.

Freo made the jump. We haven't.

More unsubstantiated nonsense.

They're a lot different, partly because of Ross Lyon, but also because they've not had the same amount of injuries they had last year, and their talented youth have an extra pre-season under their belts (e.g. De Boer, Pearce, Hill, Walters).

If anyone was in doubt about the importance of structures and game-plans they should no longer be. Lyon has brought defence, accountability, zones, work ethic, etc to what in the main is a mundane group.

He's arguably the best coach in the competition.

I hope Neeld clears a lot of the nay sayers around the club, because until he does they won't be on the same page. Twice in his retirement speech Green spoke of "buy in", which can only mean plenty of players hadn't. I have no doubt that this is one of the main reasons for our diabolical season. He needs everyone pulling in the same direction.

All fair, but there's really no fair point in comparing Neeld to Lyon, insinuating that we could have Ross Lyon coaching us, or that we should have done a lot more to get him here.

I think it's probably true that we don't have a list of players all committed to the cause right now, and I think it's also fair that Fremantle probably had the same problem last year. But I think they were for differing reasons. I don't think Harvey was a particularly good coach and he'd had that list for a number of years. Neeld has a bunch of hacks, many of whom are OOC and thus spent portions of the year playing for their careers, not the team.

Have to disagree with 'mundane' as a description of Fremantle. I don't think Pavlich, Sandilands, Mundy, Hill, Walters, Ballantyne, McPharlin and Pearce are 'mundane' at all. Fremantle have proven leaders and stars. We do not. Fremantle have their fair share of lesser lights, but it's easier to get the most out of them when they have role models and leaders to pull them along. Neeld doesn't have that benefit.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

Prove it.

More unsubstantiated nonsense.

They're a lot different, partly because of Ross Lyon, but also because they've not had the same amount of injuries they had last year, and their talented youth have an extra pre-season under their belts (e.g. De Boer, Pearce, Hill, Walters).

All fair, but there's really no fair point in comparing Neeld to Lyon, insinuating that we could have Ross Lyon coaching us, or that we should have done a lot more to get him here.

I think it's probably true that we don't have a list of players all committed to the cause right now, and I think it's also fair that Fremantle probably had the same problem last year. But I think they were for differing reasons. I don't think Harvey was a particularly good coach and he'd had that list for a number of years. Neeld has a bunch of hacks, many of whom are OOC and thus spent portions of the year playing for their careers, not the team.

Have to disagree with 'mundane' as a description of Fremantle. I don't think Pavlich, Sandilands, Mundy, Hill, Walters, Ballantyne, McPharlin and Pearce are 'mundane' at all. Fremantle have proven leaders and stars. We do not. Fremantle have their fair share of lesser lights, but it's easier to get the most out of them when they have role models and leaders to pull them along. Neeld doesn't have that benefit.

Think what you like. Ross Lyon has taken a Flaky culture very similar to that of the MFC & steeled it up.

It's been a long time since the cats were humiliated. The first Q was incredible.

[titan_uranus 24,631]

Think what you like. Ross Lyon has taken a Flaky culture very similar to that of the MFC & steeled it up.

It's been a long time since the cats were humiliated. The first Q was incredible.

I don't disagree with you that Lyon has been good to Fremantle. I also don't disagree that he'd have been good to Melbourne.

But whinging about how we could have had him is like whinging about us not having Lance Franklin. I mean, why didn't we call him up and ask him to come here?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Bradley, McPhee. Pearce, Ibbotson, Dawson, Silvagni, Mzungu, Spurr, Suban, Crowley = mundane.

I'm not sating they're terrible. I'm not saying they're not OK. I'm saying they're mundane.

And obviously their top end talent is better than ours. Whose isn't ?

And I didn't compare Neeld to Lyon.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Ben-Hur