So to recap -

Pick 3 - traded for MD pick 1 (Jesse Hogan)

Pick 4 - Jimmy Toumpas

except when GWS take Toumpas with 3 ...

Why would we trade GWS pick 3 and give them a selection before ours? Pick 4 is (most likely) still going to be better than the next best rival bid.

WELCOME TO DEMONLAND!!!!

That made me laugh. First post and already on the front foot. Just like Sehwag in the Brisbane test last year.

So, inside-out slash over extra-cover it is then..

Why would we trade GWS pick 3 and give them a selection before ours? Pick 4 is (most likely) still going to be better than the next best rival bid.

The general consensus is that GWS wont bid on Viney if we offer pick 3 but might bid on Viney if we offer pick 4.

Of course it is all guess work by everyone on here and revolves around Gold coast giving up pick 2 for a mini draft pick. (Therfore not being able to bid on Viney)

Of course officially f/s bidding is done before trade week and therefore we would need to meet with GWS & GC and discuss this trade before that point in time.

There is a hole heap of holes in the plan which is why a lot of people are confused or simply don't get it.

The general consensus is that GWS wont bid on Viney if we offer pick 3 but might bid on Viney if we offer pick 4.

Of course it is all guess work by everyone on here and revolves around Gold coast giving up pick 2 for a mini draft pick. (Therfore not being able to bid on Viney)

Of course officially f/s bidding is done before trade week and therefore we would need to meet with GWS & GC and discuss this trade before that point in time.

There is a hole heap of holes in the plan which is why a lot of people are confused or simply don't get it.

Is hard i see no reason to g o all out with pick 3 unless it is a huge demand by GWS. Ideally

GWS tell GC not to bid as it benefits them for us to trade with them. and in turn they will give GC MD pick 1 imo

The general consensus is that GWS wont bid on Viney if we offer pick 3 but might bid on Viney if we offer pick 4.

Of course it is all guess work by everyone on here and revolves around Gold coast giving up pick 2 for a mini draft pick. (Therfore not being able to bid on Viney)

Of course officially f/s bidding is done before trade week and therefore we would need to meet with GWS & GC and discuss this trade before that point in time.

There is a hole heap of holes in the plan which is why a lot of people are confused or simply don't get it.

Except our pick 4 still beats any other offer they can get...and if we have to use pick 3 on Viney we will be more inclined to hang on to 4.

I still don't think GWS would risk missing out on Whitfield to see if we are bluffing...the risk is too great and the benefit is to others behind us in the draft not them so its crazy and if I was a member I would be [censored].

The general consensus is that GWS wont bid on Viney if we offer pick 3 but might bid on Viney if we offer pick 4.

Of course it is all guess work by everyone on here and revolves around Gold coast giving up pick 2 for a mini draft pick. (Therfore not being able to bid on Viney)

Of course officially f/s bidding is done before trade week and therefore we would need to meet with GWS & GC and discuss this trade before that point in time.

There is a hole heap of holes in the plan which is why a lot of people are confused or simply don't get it.

And right there is where we can be ruthless pricks. Offer GWS pick 3 in exchange for MD2 (if everything else falls into place), then hopefully get Viney through to the 2nd round in the f/s bidding. Come trade time, we could just say pick 3 is now off the table and you can take or leave pick 4.

Also, would it not seem really suss to give GWS the higher of our 2 picks. From the outside persepective its going to look like melbourne have done a deal i.e. "draft tampering", or that we are a nice (read soft) club that doesn't mind giving another club an extra advantage in the draft.

But GWS will say "We'll nominate Viney and then you take him at 3. Then we'll take pick 5 from the Dogs, which will effectively give us the same player as your pick 4".

The deal will have to be pick 3. And both parties will be happy with it.

It means that we get 3 top 5 players with 2 top 5 picks. GWS get pick 3.

If GWS get pick 2 from the GC for Martin.

Then, they'd be mad not to try deal with us - and vice versa.

If you look at GWS list, its a hell of a list and any chance to get a leg up from here,

they'll pounce upon, I think they will be chasing picks 2 and 3 no matter what.

But, Martin is the gun, how good Kelly and Hogan are I'm not sure - they probably aren't worth 3.

But GWS will say "We'll nominate Viney and then you take him at 3. Then we'll take pick 5 from the Dogs, which will effectively give us the same player as your pick 4".

The deal will have to be pick 3. And both parties will be happy with it.

It means that we get 3 top 5 players with 2 top 5 picks. GWS get pick 3.

Where do you rate Viney in the draft AoB? And where would you rate Martin and hogan?

But GWS will say "We'll nominate Viney and then you take him at 3. Then we'll take pick 5 from the Dogs, which will effectively give us the same player as your pick 4".

The deal will have to be pick 3. And both parties will be happy with it.

It means that we get 3 top 5 players with 2 top 5 picks. GWS get pick 3.

A deal which cannot be officially agreed upon.

My point was that we try and get Viney through to the 2nd round with a "promise" of pick 3.

So say we have now locked Viney in with our 2nd rounder with neither GWS or GC bidding. Now we hold the upper hand. We could keep to our word and give them pick 3, or we could play hardball and say it's now pick 4 or nothing.

as i said in the other thread why the hell would we waste to prime draft picks on skinny kids who we have to wait for another year! we need players asap like toumpas or wines who can step in straight away.

i know the club rates toumpas pretty highly so i hope they dont part those picksd away!

How would this complicate matters? Tippett goes to GC for their pick 2. Would they go mini draft or Grundy or Toumpas?

It's hard to tell because I'm not an expert and I haven't watched much more than everybody else on this site. Unlike many here, I realise that I don't know. I can only go on a few games plus reviews from others who have seen more.

From those reviews and the little I've seen, I'd probably guess that Viney is rated between our picks 4 and 13. Hogan, mainly through the lack of alternatives and the relatively risk free nature of him filling an AFL key forward position, would probably be ranked in the 3-8 range, depending on who wants him. Martin's better than that, but he has other issues that could well stop clubs going near him with an early pick.

But, as I have said (pretty strongly) my opinion should be taken with a North Korean salt mine's worth of salt.

We could keep to our word and give them pick 3, or we could play hardball and say it's now pick 4 or nothing.

The benefit is that we could screw a team over for one pick in the draft (which probably won't make any difference to the player we get anyway).

The downside is that we could never do another deal like this with any club ever again, since nobody would trust us. So if there is any chance for us to get a gentleman's agreement with a team that could give us a significant benefit (like the Viney deal) then we could never do it. Nobody would come to us in a trade with good faith.

I wonder how Billy Stretch is coming along?

Thanks

My Ideal scenario would be to trade pick 3 for md 1and on trade md 1 for Gaff. Then use pick 4 for md 2 and GWS's second round pick.

That means we get gaff with 2 per seasons, Hogan and another good kid.

Jessie Hogan clearly fits the needs of the dees more then Kelly. He will be a very good player however.

We should be in the ear of Toby Greene imho

Just what we want another midget. Have you noticed our size differential? How about we go and get Grundy and begin to work around that.

Just what we want another midget. Have you noticed our size differential? How about we go and get Grundy and begin to work around that.

Have you seen Greene play? Or just looked at his bio?

Not big, but hell he would walk in and be our number 2 midfielder. I would say one but Jones has been very good this year.

A midfielder that can get it inside and outside, and use it like very few can, wish we had one of them. Oh yeah, and he kicks goals.

I'd be happy enough trading picks 3 & 4 for both MD picks and take Kelly and Hogan.

Assuming we get Viney with our 2nd round pick I think we have enough inside midfielders to have a really good balance. Although we've really only had Jones playing well this year we'll be able to add Viney and then expect the development of Gysberts, Taggart, Trengove & Grimes and the ability of Sylvia to play inside and out and we've got our inside mids covered.

Kelly and Blease on the outside will add the class that we need and then we can add to those touches in the coming seasons through Free Agency, trades and later draft picks.

Hogan is a must for me. If we can add Hogan with Clark, Fitzpatrick and hopefully a Mason Shaw at pick 13 and then all the pieces are starting to fall into place.

I'd be happy enough trading picks 3 & 4 for both MD picks and take Kelly and Hogan.

Assuming we get Viney with our 2nd round pick I think we have enough inside midfielders to have a really good balance. Although we've really only had Jones playing well this year we'll be able to add Viney and then expect the development of Gysberts, Taggart, Trengove & Grimes and the ability of Sylvia to play inside and out and we've got our inside mids covered.

Kelly and Blease on the outside will add the class that we need and then we can add to those touches in the coming seasons through Free Agency, trades and later draft picks.

Hogan is a must for me. If we can add Hogan with Clark, Fitzpatrick and hopefully a Mason Shaw at pick 13 and then all the pieces are starting to fall into place.

I totally agree about Hogan and our forward line. Our midfield problems our bigger then what some people may think though. I am not confident about how much improvement will be in JT,Sylvia and Gysberts next year. I banked on all of them improving this year and Jones went forwards and Sylvia stayed still and JT and Gys went backwards. I hope in some ways this year was just a training drill and the mids you mentioned come out swinging next year.

I'd be happy enough trading picks 3 & 4 for both MD picks and take Kelly and Hogan.

Neeld might as well quit now if we do that. He needs serious improvement in 2013 if he's going to see out his contract and spending his two prized draft picks on kidlets who won't see the light of day until 2014 would be career suicide. Whether it's best for us long term is another matter, but I just can't see Neeld allowing it to happen and fair enough too.