Proves it once again (Well done Stuie...twice in one day!). Ratten had the cattle in 2004 and Royal didnt in 2012. Well done

My point was about Royal not Ratten, can you follow?

You say Ratten was considered good only because he had god players at his disposal, yet Royal has just as good at his disposal but both players have been rubbish this year despite previously being very good.

Nothing against Chocco, and he may have done an ok job in the past, but it's pretty obvious he's not working as far as Neeld's plan and style goes.

Time to go at the end of this season.

Royal is a VFL standard coach.

Spencer and McKenzie are VFL standard footballers.

It's no wonder we got smashed. Thank goodness Sloane didn't play.

You have to laugh when the torch carriers wont to burn an assistant coach when they dont know exactly what his role is and the extent of his accountabilities and responsibilities.

Royal may or may not be a good coach but how the hell would a person sitting in the grandstand make an informed assessment. They cant. Its immaterial as his contract that was signed pre Neeld is expiring at the end of the season. And calls for his sacking or resigning are unnecessary.

But Royal would be handling his responsibilities in response to Neelds game plan. And given we have a 4th world mid field that has no class, little talent and no familiarity with the new game plan what moves do posters think Royal can make with the crud at his disposal to change matters?

Nevertheless the silly demand for his hanging will continue.

I'd normally agree with you on this one but look at how the midfield was performing under Scotty West, infinitely better than this year's version under Royal. Royal had the back line last year and look how bad they were compared to the year before under Sean Wellman. This year under Rawlings they are looking more like they did the year before Royal had them. You don't need to be in the inner sanctum to see how badly the areas he has coached have gone backwards under him. Facts speak for themselves. One of the really great players and probably a good assistant coach in his time but that time has well and truly gone.

For sake of comparison, Jacobs, Thompson, Dangerfield, Mackay, van Berlo, Vince, Reilly, Douglas, Smith and Doughty have played a combined total of 1252 AFL games at an average of 125 games.

In contrast, Spencer, Nicholson, Jones, Grimes, McKenzie, Trengove, Bail, Sylvia, Blease and Howe have played a total of 561 games at an average of 56 games.

So Adelaide's onball division has more than twice the experience of the Melbourne midfield, and it showed.

So the problem for Brian Royal, is that most weeks he is fighting this lopsided equation. I can't say anything for the man's coaching ability, but he is having to coach a midfield that is generally less talented and much less experienced than the opposition. So i'm not sure what we're expecting??

And yet Scotty West with none of the extra assistants or IT guys providing instant footage or training facilities or Neil Craig's performance expertise or Dave Misson etc etc got much more out of a weaker mid field than Royal has out of this bunch who are a couple of years further down the track.

So you' re all saying that Neeld does not communicate with Royal?????

I think the whole year we have been in teaching mode for so many young players....

I understand the frustration.....but don't tell me that Royal instucts the midfield without the coach's stamp of approval....

I'd disagree on the Scott West point. I've seen suburban football sides set up better at stoppages than what we did in the last couple of years under Bailey. Also our midfield only ever headed in one direction, and that was towards the end of the ground we were kicking to. Also does that mean Rawlings is responsible for Frawley's horrible form this year?

I think you do need to be in the inner sanctum, because none of us knows what goes on behind closed doors, how the coaches go about their business. We have many issues that seem obvious pointers towards poor performance, i.e. low experience, less talent, etc..Unless you 'know' how the man coaches by listening to him, I don't think you can form a judgement. It's especially true for an assistant coach, because they are working in a team they are not in charge of. Not to say Neeld's to blame, just that there are a multitude of reasons we are performing poorly, but isolating the midfield coach for the blame seems a tad unfair..

So you' re all saying that Neeld does not communicate with Royal?????

I think the whole year we have been in teaching mode for so many young players....

I understand the frustration.....but don't tell me that Royal instucts the midfield without the coach's stamp of approval....

Having a good principal doesn't mean all the teachers are top quality.

Having a good principal doesn't mean all the teachers are top quality.

But the principal oversees the whole set up of the school

But the principal oversees the whole set up of the school

But he can't teach every class...

But he can't teach every class...

Surely you have forgotten to mention the calibre of the students

I like this piece only but not the Schwab bit!

That was "tongue placed firmly in cheek" - however I am bemused by some on here that constantly suggest that most problems associated with onfield performances are caused by everyone except those who are actually on the field.

Surely you have forgotten to mention the calibre of the students

I think this analogy is starting to focus to much on the "anal"...

Surely you have forgotten to mention the calibre of the students

true but don't forget we have the best desks (thanks to Cam)

true but don't forget we have the best desks (thanks to Cam)

Deskgate surfaces!

we literally got smashed in the center bounces and around the contest! even last week against GWS we kept getting smashed in and around the packs. i think its time for this bloke to go im sick of our midfield having no idea what to do around the ball ups etc.

time to go!

I just don't understand the logic here. We have midfielders with limited experience like McKenzie and Nicholson up against hardened stars like Dangerfield and Thompson - and a ruckman just jumping for the sake of it ..................... and its Brian Royal's fault that we are not getting the ball?

Royal had better lift his game next week.If he can't come up with a plan to ensure that Spencer eclipses Sandilands and Bail outguns Fyfe, then I'd have to agree with you - Royal's a dud!!

You have to laugh when the torch carriers wont to burn an assistant coach when they dont know exactly what his role is and the extent of his accountabilities and responsibilities.

Royal may or may not be a good coach but how the hell would a person sitting in the grandstand make an informed assessment. They cant. Its immaterial as his contract that was signed pre Neeld is expiring at the end of the season. And calls for his sacking or resigning are unnecessary.

But Royal would be handling his responsibilities in response to Neelds game plan. And given we have a 4th world mid field that has no class, little talent and no familiarity with the new game plan what moves do posters think Royal can make with the crud at his disposal to change matters?

Nevertheless the silly demand for his hanging will continue.

I think you've got a template post saved, and replace "Royal" with "Bohdan" or who ever is under the gun.

Brett Ratten is going to lose his job and it's not entirely his fault.

Just as Royal will lose his and yes there were obvious factors outside his control but that's what happens when you have 35,000 stakeholders.

My point was about Royal not Ratten, can you follow?

You say Ratten was considered good only because he had god players at his disposal, yet Royal has just as good at his disposal but both players have been rubbish this year despite previously being very good.

More a case of can you follow?

Royal has had crud to deal with this year. White and Thompson circa 2004 are miles ahead of anything else we have put on the park. Jamar has not been fit. Moloney has gone to water. Jones has been valiant but no stand out. But you are right that the players have been rubbish. Just gets back to my point about cattle. Ummm.......

I'd normally agree with you on this one but look at how the midfield was performing under Scotty West, infinitely better than this year's version under Royal. Royal had the back line last year and look how bad they were compared to the year before under Sean Wellman. This year under Rawlings they are looking more like they did the year before Royal had them. You don't need to be in the inner sanctum to see how badly the areas he has coached have gone backwards under him. Facts speak for themselves. One of the really great players and probably a good assistant coach in his time but that time has well and truly gone.

Now lets see Royal vs West. Both years our midfield have been crud. Last year our midfield dined out on the weaker clubs and got smashed by any of the top 8 midfields. I cant see any change. We have had a 3rd world midfield for the past six years.

And you are right..Facts do speak for themselves. Its ironic that you manage to avoid using any facts.

Royal had better lift his game next week.If he can't come up with a plan to ensure that Spencer eclipses Sandilands and Bail outguns Fyfe, then I'd have to agree with you - Royal's a dud!!

I can see so many torch bearers nodded in heated approval of this!!!

I think you've got a template post saved, and replace "Royal" with "Bohdan" or who ever is under the gun.

Same principles at stake here. I am waiting for the anti oracle Freak to proclaim Bohdan is actually behind the fitness issues at Essendon.

More a case of can you follow?

Royal has had crud to deal with this year. White and Thompson circa 2004 are miles ahead of anything else we have put on the park. Jamar has not been fit. Moloney has gone to water. Jones has been valiant but no stand out. But you are right that the players have been rubbish. Just gets back to my point about cattle. Ummm.......

Now lets see Royal vs West. Both years our midfield have been crud. Last year our midfield dined out on the weaker clubs and got smashed by any of the top 8 midfields. I cant see any change. We have had a 3rd world midfield for the past six years.

And you are right..Facts do speak for themselves. Its ironic that you manage to avoid using any facts.

I can see so many torch bearers nodded in heated approval of this!!!

Same principles at stake here. I am waiting for the anti oracle Freak to proclaim Bohdan is actually behind the fitness issues at Essendon.

Long story short, while we may disagree about the job Royal has done, do we agree we should go after any available higher quality at the end of Chocco's contract?

We've all made our points now, so let's try and go somewhere productive with the thread.

Long story short, while we may disagree about the job Royal has done, do we agree we should go after any available higher quality at the end of Chocco's contract?

What is for sure and certain -since the day dot coaches have been copping it in the neck for insipid performances on the field by players-much easier to sack one coach than 22 players.

What is for sure and certain -since the day dot coaches have been copping it in the neck for insipid performances on the field by players-much easier to sack one coach than 22 players.

Ain't that the truth!

But in saying that, it is their job to prepare and inspire the players as to not put in such performances.

Case by case basis I reckon.

No point sacking him now, he's been earmarked as gone from when Neeld walked in the door, just riding out the contract.

Who's available? What about Brett Lovett?

I'd take Junior McDonlad.

And that's based on??? How do you know its not the message Neeld is sending?

Based on the fact Neeld shaped and coached a premiership midfield at Collingwood. Granted that it was with pretty handy players, he still delivered the message to those players to execute a game plan.

Comms are breaking down somewhere...

Sack him when we have identified and recruited an outstanding individual and a midfield for them to coach . Malthouse would have struggled turning that pigs ear of a midfield into a silk purse. Royal had the poison coaching chalice. He may be the best in the game, but we can't see it through the cattle.

He's crap, no one likes him and was a dud at all of the places he has been to. His only success was as the midfield coach in 2000 when the team was actually good. NEXT!

In other threads, most posters seem to want Cameron Ling taking he midfield. Either him or bring back Ratts.

Is Brett Lovett solely at Casey, or does he play a role directly for the MFC as well?