On 26/08/2012 at 10:00, Mad_Melbourne said:

He runs so hard, I noticed him today, running was unrewarded, he will be an absolute gun

He plays in the guts, but rarely wins clearances. Does not seem to be overly quick or clean by hand as well as foot.

  On 26/08/2012 at 09:54, Range Rover said:

He's been one of our worst players over the course of the season. If he wasn't captain or a no.2 draft pick you'd be battling to come up with a reason to retain him. That's the truth of it.

I guess all we can do is write the year off as an aberration and hope he returns in 2013 a different player. I'm not sure he will tbh.

Lets ignore the fact that he has obviously carried most of the year and is third for disposals and as far as I understand leads our defensive acts but clearly one of our worst this season.

His leg speed is a worry, as is his ball-winning ability. I read last week that he had a season-high 23 disposals. An average of 18. That is very very low for a midfielder. Now numbers aren't everything but all of the very best mids running around at present (Ablett, Swan, Beams, Thompson, Kennedy etc etc etc) are up around the 30 mark on a day out, and still get low 20s on a bad day. Jonesy is averaging 25. I find it very concerning that Trenners is not even close to the mark.. in fact I have a feeling he has never registered 30 disposals in a game in 3 seasons. I know he's a lot younger than these blokes but I'm sure Dustin Martin and other rivals around the same age have him covered comfortably.

Way too early to be writing him off and I saw enough in 2010 and 2011 to be excited, but 2013 is a big test for him.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:09, big_red_fire_engine said:

Lets ignore the fact that he has obviously carried most of the year and is third for disposals and as far as I understand leads our defensive acts but clearly one of our worst this season.

Let's put to bed this nonsense that he is injured. He isn't. He's just slow. S - L - O - W.

It's sad the way some of our supporters continue to lap up mediocrity and find every way possible to apologise for it.

i dont understand how he is so slow this yr, my mate who went to school with him and was close friends with him said he broke a lot load of records at the drafting camp thing they go to. One of them being finishing a certain amount of laps the fastest.

edit: grammer and spelling errors

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:10, Sylvia Saint said:

His leg speed is a worry, as is his ball-winning ability. I read last week that he had a season-high 23 disposals. An average of 18. That is very very low for a midfielder. Now numbers aren't everything but all of the very best mids running around at present (Ablett, Swan, Beams, Thompson, Kennedy etc etc etc) are up around the 30 mark on a day out, and still get low 20s on a bad day. Jonesy is averaging 25.

Go and check how many disposals per game the players you mention averaged in their third year. You can then remove your foot from your mouth.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:14, Range Rover said:

Let's put to bed this nonsense that he is injured. He isn't. He's just slow. S - L - O - W.

It's sad the way some of our supporters continue to lap up mediocrity and find every way possible to apologise for it.

Is he slower this year than when he was drafted? Find me a post where people talked about how slow he was last year. You dont suddenly lose pace at 21.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:16, big_red_fire_engine said:

Go and check how many disposals per game the players you mention averaged in their third year. You can then remove your foot from your mouth.

I think you're missing my point, I'm not saying Trengove should be averaging the same numbers as these guys, just that his ball-winning ability is nowhere near where it should be. Will it improve in the coming years? Maybe, probably, I bloody hope so, but a guy playing in the mids should be seeing more of the pill. I realise he is young and will get better but for arguments sake how do Dustin Martin's figures compare? He poops on Trengove from a great height at present. Harley Bennell? Toby Greene? Lewis Jetta?

I am a Trengove fan but 2012 has been a stinker and he's not going to be elite unless he finds ways of getting to more contests.

Surely has OP.

If not, then that's a worry. But let's just say he has, and focus on the real problems.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:18, big_red_fire_engine said:

Is he slower this year than when he was drafted? Find me a post where people talked about how slow he was last year. You dont suddenly lose pace at 21.

Well Trengove has. Been saying it all year.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:24, Sylvia Saint said:

I think you're missing my point, I'm not saying Trengove should be averaging the same numbers as these guys, just that his ball-winning ability is nowhere near where it should be. Will it improve in the coming years? Maybe, probably, I bloody hope so, but a guy playing in the mids should be seeing more of the pill. I realise he is young and will get better but for arguments sake how do Dustin Martin's figures compare? He poops on Trengove from a great height at present. Harley Bennell? Toby Greene? Lewis Jetta?

I am a Trengove fan but 2012 has been a stinker and he's not going to be elite unless he finds ways of getting to more contests.

Players of similar style on their third year.

Bartel (21 poss), Swan (16 poss), Hayes (15 poss)

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:09, big_red_fire_engine said:

Lets ignore the fact that he has obviously carried most of the year and is third for disposals and as far as I understand leads our defensive acts but clearly one of our worst this season.

dont argue with yoru facts, they will get you knowhere here, this is demonland

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:24, Sylvia Saint said:

. Harley Bennell? Toby Greene? Lewis Jetta?

I am a Trengove fan but 2012 has been a stinker and he's not going to be elite unless he finds ways of getting to more contests.

Would say Harley Bennell and Lewis Jetta are similar players to Jack?

  On 26/08/2012 at 09:54, Range Rover said:

He's been one of our worst players over the course of the season. If he wasn't captain or a no.2 draft pick you'd be battling to come up with a reason to retain him. That's the truth of it.

I guess all we can do is write the year off as an aberration and hope he returns in 2013 a different player. I'm not sure he will tbh.

  On 26/08/2012 at 09:56, why you little said:

The 2nd best footballer in the country from 2009...Geez we can pick 'em can't we!!

  On 26/08/2012 at 09:57, Rob Mac...... said:

Agreed!

I've no idea whether it's psychological, or a little undisclosed injury, but he was better last year & I suspect the reason he wasn't dropped for a bit this year was because of the captaincy. Poor decision not to give him a run in the two's, it worked well for others this year. (I also wouldn't have made him captain so young.)

Trengove is 3rd at our club for disposals this season, and 2nd in tackles. Obviously works hard both ways.

On top of this, he is the youngest captain in the history of the game. He has had to deal with probably one of the club's toughest years ever, and he is 20. He has come through that with flying colours and, if you disagree, watch the captain's speech from Foundation Heroes the other night.

The fact that he can't kick 35m and can hardly run at the moment is not because he is cr@p.

You three are absolutely kidding yourselves.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:25, big_red_fire_engine said:

Players of similar style on their third year.

Bartel (21 poss), Swan (16 poss), Hayes (15 poss)

Yep but the game is played differently now to what it was say 10 years ago. All the very best midfielders average 25+, more like 30 a game, and even the young players entering the game can easily come in and average 20+.

Look I don't want to appear anti-Trengove because he is a good egg but he is not getting enough of the footy and if he wants to reach that A-grade level then he needs to start getting involved and not go missing for extended periods in matches. At the moment Dustin Martin the guy taken after him is streets ahead of him and that's the kind of level I expect a #2 draft pick entering his 4th season to be reaching. I think he should step down from the captaincy so we can let him focus on becoming the best player he can be.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:33, Undeeterred said:

The fact that he can't kick 35m and can hardly run at the moment is not because he is cr@p.

then please tell me why he has no pace and cannot kick 35 metres?

It is a serious problem in my eyes and in no way a go at his character.

He's had a lack Lustre year, still only very young and I reckon the captaincy has weighed him down.

Had a great year the year before.

He will be a great player and leader at our club.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:38, why you little said:

then please tell me why he has no pace and cannot kick 35 metres?

It is a serious problem in my eyes and in no way a go at his character.

I'm a firm believer that he is injured, as many people have noted on numerous threads previously. At worst, he is under a huge training load which will be beneficial in the long term. You don't just 'lose' pace (except when you get old, like me) and you don't just not be able to kick 35m all of a sudden.

While I'm at it, 7th in at MFC marks, 9th in goals, 4th in contested possessions and 6th in inside 50s. The only stat that surprised me was that he is 14th in 1%ers (whatever they are).

Yes, he's not immediately eye catching at the moment, but to say he is ineffective, or worse, that we should get rid of him, is flat out silly.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:46, Undeeterred said:

I'm a firm believer that he is injured, as many people have noted on numerous threads previously.

People can believe that and 'note' it all they like. Fact is Trengove has played every game this year. Never 'rested' once due to soreness or injury.

Why? Because he's not injured.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:51, Range Rover said:

People can believe that and 'note' it all they like. Fact is Trengove has played every game this year. Never 'rested' once due to soreness or injury.

Why? Because he's not injured.

I did put the 'load' qualifier on that, which is the other reason that most sensible people have put forward for his physical condition.

How else do you explain loss of speed and kicking length? Especially so in a guy who 2-3 years ago was noted for both.

I'd argue that he has been relatively effective regardless, which is borne out by the evidence I posted. You didn't bother to try to refute any of it.

It is easy to just run a thread potting a player with nothing to support you other than 'Gee, he is slow', but to me it looks like you just pushing your usual agendas.

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:51, Range Rover said:

People can believe that and 'note' it all they like. Fact is Trengove has played every game this year. Never 'rested' once due to soreness or injury.

Why? Because he's not injured.

Yes this is what worries me. If he was carrying an injury i am sure he would have been given rotations of rest during the season.

You do not [censored] an injury weekly. They get worse.

  On 26/08/2012 at 11:00, Undeeterred said:

I did put the 'load' qualifier on that, which is the other reason that most sensible people have put forward for his physical condition.

How else do you explain loss of speed and kicking length? Especially so in a guy who 2-3 years ago was noted for both.

I'd argue that he has been relatively effective regardless, which is borne out by the evidence I posted. You didn't bother to try to refute any of it.

It is easy to just run a thread potting a player with nothing to support you other than 'Gee, he is slow', but to me it looks like you just pushing your usual agendas.

You can argue away all you like. His performances have been there for all to see.

If I didn't know his drafting history I'd watch him and guess he was a no-name 3rd round pick.

No agenda. Just the truth. A sad one at that.

Here's hoping that a combo of exhaustion from all the fitness work and a form slump is causing this. Look to next year, as I have been saying since I can remember.

Give the guy (and us) a break. You don't go from being second quickest at the draft camp to all kinds of slow in a couple of years without very good reason. There would be a physical reason behind this, perhaps OP or the heavy training loads. Once he has resolved this physical issue, whatever it is, those questioning him now will feel pretty silly.

Rob Mac......, on 26 August 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

Agreed!

I've no idea whether it's psychological, or a little undisclosed injury, but he was better last year & I suspect the reason he wasn't dropped for a bit this year was because of the captaincy. Poor decision not to give him a run in the two's, it worked well for others this year. (I also wouldn't have made him captain so young.)

  On 26/08/2012 at 10:33, Undeeterred said:

Trengove is 3rd at our club for disposals this season, and 2nd in tackles. Obviously works hard both ways.

On top of this, he is the youngest captain in the history of the game. He has had to deal with probably one of the club's toughest years ever, and he is 20. He has come through that with flying colours and, if you disagree, watch the captain's speech from Foundation Heroes the other night.

The fact that he can't kick 35m and can hardly run at the moment is not because he is cr@p.

You three are absolutely kidding yourselves.

Undeterred, Your quoting of me is (possibly unintentionally) unfair.

In my post you quoted, I clearly agreed solely with Range Rover saying that "He's been one of our worst players over the course of the season." You yourself said, "The fact that he can't kick 35m and can hardly run at the moment (is not because he is cr@p)." ..but Undeeterred, while you "can't kick 35m and can hardly run" you ARE at least somewhat cr@p (in spite of many other admirable efforts) which is how Trengrove's been this season, right?

Previously he was fine & hopefully next year too, plus he seems a great fellow who's development has been put under much strain this year. I like him & wasn't suggesting his delisting