If GWS or GC bid for Viney with no intention of using their pick on him surely that amounts to tampering with the draft.

Well, it is a grey area but they could easily say - 'we are more than happy to take him with Pick 2, but Melbourne intervened as is their right.'

I am not intimately involved with junior footy but a neutral observer I heard talking about this issue said it would be more unfair for Melbourne to able to take a talent like Viney at 25 than it would for Melbourne to be made to use Pick 3. The inference being that Viney is a special talent among the top echelon of kids playing today.

Look the tongue is firmly in the cheek but since according to another thread we made such a fook up of taking Scully over Martin and Cook over Darling, lets get the hindsight genius's put their recruiting nouse on the line and tell us who we should take.

On a serious note I'm not happy I have to attend a family function on Sunday I was hoping to go and see the WA v Vic Country U/18's and see some of these kids in the flesh

A lot of people on Demonland (me included) were NOT hindsight geniuses when they posted their preference for Darling BEFORE the draft

They were put down then too by certain "experts"

Kinda makes sense to trade out our pick 3 if we'll have to use it for Viney anyway. In effect, if GWS and GC were going to force our hand then we'd be only be losing out on pick 25. Make sense?

Kinda makes sense to trade out our pick 3 if we'll have to use it for Viney anyway. In effect, if GWS and GC were going to force our hand then we'd be only be losing out on pick 25. Make sense?

No.

Nominations for father/son are completed prior to the trade period.

Ah ok, so we actually have to state we're taking him at pick 3 and therefore can't use it in trades? I figured you just have to say you'll take him at the next eligible pick.

Can someone please explain how we would "do a deal" with GWS or GCS to allow us to pick up Viney at pick 23?

What possible scenarios are there, there?

Ah ok, so we actually have to state we're taking him at pick 3 and therefore can't use it in trades? I figured you just have to say you'll take him at the next eligible pick.

Bidding is over when trades begin.

However...

Can someone please explain how we would "do a deal" with GWS or GCS to allow us to pick up Viney at pick 23?

What possible scenarios are there, there?

Trades can be arranged with the two teams below us so they don't nominate Viney, with those trades to be completed a week later during the trade window.

For RR - these trades could involve Pick 3 itself going to GWS for involvement in the 17 year old mini-draft, this would directly benefit GWS for not nominating Viney. GC could also be involved in this trade to have all 3 teams complicit in the deal to push Viney away from Pick 3 do that GWS gets that pick and GC is promised a 17 year old on the proviso Pick 3 is included.

*credit to olisik for thinking this one up a few months ago.

Bidding is over when trades begin.

However...

Trades can be arranged with the two teams below us so they don't nominate Viney, with those trades to be completed a week later during the trade window.

For RR - these trades could involve Pick 3 itself going to GWS for involvement in the 17 year old mini-draft, this would directly benefit GWS for not nominating Viney. GC could also be involved in this trade to have all 3 teams complicit in the deal to push Viney away from Pick 3 do that GWS gets that pick and GC is promised a 17 year old on the proviso Pick 3 is included.

*credit to olisik for thinking this one up a few months ago.

Cheers. I sort of get it and it sort of makes sense ... so we should sort of go ahead and do it!

At least we get to watch that goofy top 10 countdown, and actually be interested.

I for one, hope we can swing a deal with the franchises, to prevent them bidding on Viney.

This is a very interesting situation. The AFL have publicly warned the clubs on this but very hard to prove a deal has been done (eg for a favorable deal in later years, or a quiet agreement not to target out of contract players etc).

The really fascinating bit is whether GWS or GC would risk selecting him if they don't really rate him, say top 5. Also both clubs have already drafted alot of mid field talent in i would have thought, Viney may not be the sort of player either clubs is after ATM. I suppose GC could do with some grunt but GWS seem ok in this regard

If they did select him they would have to be pretty sure Melbourne is going to take Viney and as much i'd hate not to have him at the dees (we so need a player like him) they won't if it they really think there is a much better option (it would have to be much, much better though given they would be breaking a commitment and we know what Viney can offer).

If either club picked them and we called their bluff (ie chose not to take him) we would then get the nominal 1st or 2nd draft pick of the so called super draft. A pretty big gamble for GWS and GC and i don't think when its all said and done a gamble they'll take just to stick it up the dees. Its big business and you don't take that sort of risk out of spite. And beyond the risk of giving up a player who might otherwise go pick 1 or 2 you would make an unnecessary enemy of a club who has money to spend on players and may be looking at some point to use that money to lure some of the young stars they have assembled.

I reckon given all of the above there is every chance we will get Viney in the second round, meaning we 'd have 3 first rounders (2 of them high first round) and a gun. Happy days

Bidding is over when trades begin.

However...

Trades can be arranged with the two teams below us so they don't nominate Viney, with those trades to be completed a week later during the trade window.

For RR - these trades could involve Pick 3 itself going to GWS for involvement in the 17 year old mini-draft, this would directly benefit GWS for not nominating Viney. GC could also be involved in this trade to have all 3 teams complicit in the deal to push Viney away from Pick 3 do that GWS gets that pick and GC is promised a 17 year old on the proviso Pick 3 is included.

*credit to olisik for thinking this one up a few months ago.

or even by trading a player for slightly under his value, to gws/gc, to get the handshake done. Remember that Viney is not actually costing the new clubs anything, and as such, they are effectively getting something for nothing (not withstanding the fact they wouldnt want us in their flag window)

Lets say (for instance), that Sam Blease was valued slightly higher than Caddy from GC, but had a desire to leave. The option is there to accept that trade, providing GC dont nominate Viney. Not the best example, but im sure you know what I mean.

This is a very interesting situation. The AFL have publicly warned the clubs on this but very hard to prove a deal has been done (eg for a favorable deal in later years, or a quiet agreement not to target out of contract players etc).

The really fascinating bit is whether GWS or GC would risk selecting him if they don't really rate him, say top 5. Also both clubs have already drafted alot of mid field talent in i would have thought, Viney may not be the sort of player either clubs is after ATM. I suppose GC could do with some grunt but GWS seem ok in this regard

If they did select him they would have to be pretty sure Melbourne is going to take Viney and as much i'd hate not to have him at the dees (we so need a player like him) they won't if it they really think there is a much better option (it would have to be much, much better though given they would be breaking a commitment and we know what Viney can offer).

If either club picked them and we called their bluff (ie chose not to take him) we would then get the nominal 1st or 2nd draft pick of the so called super draft. A pretty big gamble for GWS and GC and i don't think when its all said and done a gamble they'll take just to stick it up the dees. Its big business and you don't take that sort of risk out of spite. And beyond the risk of giving up a player who might otherwise go pick 1 or 2 you would make an unnecessary enemy of a club who has money to spend on players and may be looking at some point to use that money to lure some of the young stars they have assembled.

I reckon given all of the above there is every chance we will get Viney in the second round, meaning we 'd have 3 first rounders (2 of them high first round) and a gun. Happy days

Nice examples

I would hope we could swing it by something as simple as a no poaching rule for a set time.

Would be perfect.

or even by trading a player for slightly under his value, to gws/gc, to get the handshake done. Remember that Viney is not actually costing the new clubs anything, and as such, they are effectively getting something for nothing (not withstanding the fact they wouldnt want us in their flag window)

Lets say (for instance), that Sam Blease was valued slightly higher than Caddy from GC, but had a desire to leave. The option is there to accept that trade, providing GC dont nominate Viney. Not the best example, but im sure you know what I mean.

So there is a big possibility that they can take our player (ie Blease) for nothing, as they may not even want Viney at all.

Looking at likely prospects, and I really think based on the fixture we will either end up in 16th or 15th position

If that is the case then ....

Pick 3-4 - jack viney (don't think we will get him in the second round - def worth it here though )

Pick 4-5 compo pick - stringer/toumpas/Vlastuin/ Grundy /Simpson / plowman

These would all be good options ...heard somewhere that the club rates Lachlan plowman very highly (dees supporter too ) Andrew mackie type , so halfback flanker could push to the wing , I would love jimmy toumpas though , quick skillful classy mid with real leadership

Stringer would be a good get , Brendan Goddard type ,explosive fwd/utility , but is recovering after a broken leg

Pick 13 - Menzel (brother of Daniel ) , O'Rourke , Kennedy (would give us a great small forward option who tackles )

Or possibly Dayle Garlett , Oliver wines , mathew Haynes, Sam Mayes could all be good options at this pick

Anyone want to stick their neck out and say who we should recruit this year ?

So there is a big possibility that they can take our player (ie Blease) for nothing, as they may not even want Viney at all.

If Sam is out of contract, and wishes to go into the psd, we cant stop him, and then yes, GC or GWS would get him for nothing.

I was just throwing a semi random name in there to give some realism.

If I was a suspicious person, i would admit that I see similarities in the way Blease and scummy appear to be rather emotionless and detached from teammates, even when winning.

If Sam is out of contract, and wishes to go into the psd, we cant stop him, and then yes, GC or GWS would get him for nothing.

I was just throwing a semi random name in there to give some realism.

If I was a suspicious person, i would admit that I see similarities in the way Blease and scummy appear to be rather emotionless and detached from teammates, even when winning.

Now, hang on...

That is unfair.

And you should go and put Blease and twitter into Google and see what he has actually posted about the club - he seems pretty happy here.

Now, hang on...

That is unfair.

And you should go and put Blease and twitter into Google and see what he has actually posted about the club - he seems pretty happy here.

What is unfair?

I said I only put his name in my scenario because it was an easy hypothetical trade, nothing more. Could just as easily have put a name like Tapscott in there.

And i was having fun with the second comment, even though I am sure I wouldnt be the only person to think that.

Calm down Mrs Blease.

Jeez!

Looking at likely prospects, and I really think based on the fixture we will either end up in 16th or 15th position

If that is the case then ....

Pick 3-4 - jack viney (don't think we will get him in the second round - def worth it here though )

Pick 4-5 compo pick - stringer/toumpas/Vlastuin/ Grundy /Simpson / plowman

These would all be good options ...heard somewhere that the club rates Lachlan plowman very highly (dees supporter too ) Andrew mackie type , so halfback flanker could push to the wing , I would love jimmy toumpas though , quick skillful classy mid with real leadership

Stringer would be a good get , Brendan Goddard type ,explosive fwd/utility , but is recovering after a broken leg

Pick 13 - Menzel (brother of Daniel ) , O'Rourke , Kennedy (would give us a great small forward option who tackles )

Or possibly Dayle Garlett , Oliver wines , mathew Haynes, Sam Mayes could all be good options at this pick

Anyone want to stick their neck out and say who we should recruit this year ?

I wonder if clubs will steer away from menzel as both older brothers have had (similar) knee problems and i heard Doc Larkins say there can be familial genetic predisposition to certain injuries such as the ones they have had.

Hardly sticking my neck out though, more like an anti stick the neck out!

Looking at likely prospects, and I really think based on the fixture we will either end up in 16th or 15th position

If that is the case then ....

Pick 3-4 - jack viney (don't think we will get him in the second round - def worth it here though )

Pick 4-5 compo pick - stringer/toumpas/Vlastuin/ Grundy /Simpson / plowman

These would all be good options ...heard somewhere that the club rates Lachlan plowman very highly (dees supporter too ) Andrew mackie type , so halfback flanker could push to the wing , I would love jimmy toumpas though , quick skillful classy mid with real leadership

Stringer would be a good get , Brendan Goddard type ,explosive fwd/utility , but is recovering after a broken leg

Pick 13 - Menzel (brother of Daniel ) , O'Rourke , Kennedy (would give us a great small forward option who tackles )

Or possibly Dayle Garlett , Oliver wines , mathew Haynes, Sam Mayes could all be good options at this pick

Anyone want to stick their neck out and say who we should recruit this year ?

I think Vlastuin or Toumpas maybe Stringer if he falls through with pick 4, we don't need a back (Plowman) at the mo we need a good mid.

around Pick 13 the speed factor with Haynes or Simpson if he falls through.

Maybe the Vic factor would steer me to Vlastuin ahead of Toumpas but I really like Toumpas as a player.

A midfield with Grimes, Trengove, Jones, Howe, Viney, Vlastuin/Toumpas, Haynes, Blease and Taggert might be something to work with.

And i was having fun with the second comment, even though I am sure I wouldnt be the only person to think that.

Calm down Mrs Blease.

Jeez!

This might be a culture thing.

I think Ology might be more desensitised to talk of conspiracies such as this.

We are all adjusting.

Blease seems to be enjoying his footy though.

This might be a culture thing.

I think Ology might be more desensitised to talk of conspiracies such as this.

We are all adjusting.

Blease seems to be enjoying his footy though.

Most of "us" thought scummy was going long before he left. We are an emotional lot.

If GWS or GC bid for Viney with no intention of using their pick on him surely that amounts to tampering with the draft.

Yep but there is no way to prove it, yet were the ones being warned about draft tampering.

i really hope the club is combatting all possible ways to stop this happening

It would be infair to use such a high pick on a player thats ours

Whatever we do with our picks, we shouldn't touch Menzel with a ten foot barge pole - he's already had a knee reco, and his older brother has had 2 of them! When it's a genetic predisposition (refer to the Ox's family history), then leave well enough alone. I'm sick of Melboiurne's draft picks ending up injured for most of their early career. And while we're at it, we should also make sure none of them are prone to back injuries - we've had an epidemic of those at the club...

The thing is that who ever gets the 1st pick in the draft WON'T pick Viney as they'll pick Whitfield and no sully it with games on Viney.

So it's really about the 2nd pick who (according to Knightmare) is likely to be Brodie Grundy (a monster ruck type...). The question is, would MFC take Brodie Grundy if we could. If the team with the Second pick reckons we need a ruck then they are less likely to fox for Jack Viney...

Edited June 15, 201213 yr by PaulRB

for those who are saying to call GWS and GC bluff on viney are mad i want viney and would be happy to give up pick 3, with viney we know exactly what we are getting and what sort of person he is something we didnt have the luxury with when we drafted scully, and we have had a couple years development in viney so he will be ready to go come round 1 next year and if your a betting person stick some coin on viney to win rising star will romp it in.

Not about calling their bluff. We have to make them publically say

"Jack Viney is a better player than Lauchie Whitfield and we will use the first pick of the draft on him if Melbourne let us!"

and then

"Jack Viney is a better player than Brodie Grundy and we will use the second pick of the draft on him if Melbourne let us!"

Love it.