On 15/06/2012 at 03:45, Dee*ceiving said:

Above all else this thread displays what the MFC really needs and that is passionate people driving them forward. Hang tough, encourage and support. We've made it through harder times than these.

Now that debate could last several pages!

Ian Ridley was my favourite player in the late 50's,though Dico later replaced him in that role.Ridley had the great combination of extraordinary skill and courage, and played a large part in many premierships.

BUT.......the bitterness at the merger meeting in '96 was stirred up by him. He stood on the dais yelling propaganda into the microphone like bloody Hitler! In the audience you couldn't help but get angry as he screamed the same things over and over again, with propaganda slogans blaring away on the screen behind him over and over again.

Before the meeting, I queued up in the voting line to check that my proxy vote had been counted. The employee at the booth (like all the attendants at all the other booths )was a member of the MFC office staff,ie employees of Ian Ridley.

They checked my name on the list and saw I'd voted against. They then said..."are you aware that you can CHANGE your vote?". Of course I declined to do so. I then waited beside the booth to see what was said if a proxy vote was FOR the merger. I waited for a while and noted that people who'd voted FOR the merger were NOT offered the option of changing their vote, whereas NO-voters were.

I then realised that it was a dodgy arrangement.

It was a complete disgrace that a supposedly reputable firm like Arthur Anderson would allow staff of the MFC, beholden to Ridley and his board, to be in what should be neutral position at voting tables.

It was also rumoured that Bill Guest signed up a lot of his staff as members at the last moment to collect some more pro votes.

As far as the turning away of people from the meeting was concerned, this shouldn't have precluded them from voting, but it did. All they had to do was queue up, enter the foyer to vote, then go, being told there was no more room to enter the hall.

The above is my vivid memory of that unpleasant evening.

For all those that thought Ridley was doing good that night there are more with the complete opposite view,

It was run as a boys club for those in power, the rest of us were just a side show, He was a great coach (I thought)

but he went over to the dark side !

  On 16/06/2012 at 05:31, 640MD said:

For all those that thought Ridley was doing good that night there are more with the complete opposite view,

It was run as a boys club for those in power, the rest of us were just a side show, He was a great coach (I thought)

but he went over to the dark side !

Are you sure it has really changed a lot 640MD

Edited June 16, 201212 yr by old dee

  On 15/06/2012 at 08:13, JUMPING JACK CLENNETT said:

He stood on the dais yelling propaganda into the microphone like bloody Hitler!

Wow. Just wow.

  On 15/06/2012 at 03:02, Fork said:

The battle is in the school ground.

Kids don't like copping crap cause their team is getting flogged week in week out.

They wanna be walking tall hanging the crap from where its safe ,in numbers from the top of the ladder.

I've got 2 brainwashed kids at a small country school of about 60-70 kids.

The only 2 that wear red and blue they are .

My oldest girl seems to accept her lot but the young fella would swap to Collingwood or Essendon this afternoon if I gave him the go ahead.

This of course just will not do.

I've got two great-nephews, 8 and 6, who had a great day at the 'G on QB Monday, meeting players at Fed Square, walking to the 'G with Red and Blue fans, spending their pocket-money at the Demon Shop, trying everything in the AFL Playground, and sitting on Level 1 in the Redlegs section, watching and learning about the game.

On the way home, the 8-year-old said: "You know, two or three years and we'll be premiership favourites."

Love it!

  On 16/06/2012 at 07:18, Jarka said:

Wow. Just wow.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Wow", Jarka.

Are you surprised by my description of Ridley's behaviour that night?

Believe me, it was grossly intimidating. He set the pattern for a night of hatred, where rational discussion was not on the agenda.

Does anyone have any video or audio footage of stuff from around the time of the proposed merger? I know there is a Hawks supporter on BF who has a collection of news clippings/video reports etc about Hawthorn as well as the pro-mergerpamphlet which I have downloaded somewhere. I have the merger match downloaded but would like to get my hands on any news reports, interviews, footage from the Dallas Brooks Hall/Camberwell Civic Centre etc as I have always thought about trying to make a documentary on the proposed merger someday. If anyone has any footage PM me I have tonnes of games on VHS/DVD that I can trade for.

The only footage I have seen from the nights of the votes is just snippets shown on TV at the time and the brief footage shown on That Was The Season That Was 1996.

The passion & fever pitch at the Dallas Brooks gave an injection that still lingers today.

As the joke says good men are hard to find & Joe G, yes a far left field savior, kept us above the water line at an essential time.

Jimmy was great & no disrespect to the Garners,Szondys etc., but we are one 'Churchillian' leader away from doing the Phoenix thing.

Edited June 19, 201212 yr by Nineteen

  On 18/06/2012 at 12:37, Dr. Gonzo said:

Does anyone have any video or audio footage of stuff from around the time of the proposed merger? I know there is a Hawks supporter on BF who has a collection of news clippings/video reports etc about Hawthorn as well as the pro-mergerpamphlet which I have downloaded somewhere. I have the merger match downloaded but would like to get my hands on any news reports, interviews, footage from the Dallas Brooks Hall/Camberwell Civic Centre etc as I have always thought about trying to make a documentary on the proposed merger someday. If anyone has any footage PM me I have tonnes of games on VHS/DVD that I can trade for.

The only footage I have seen from the nights of the votes is just snippets shown on TV at the time and the brief footage shown on That Was The Season That Was 1996.

A documentary would be superb, & needed.

Dr G I have a couple of anti merger labels & maybe written material tucked away some where.

Hit me with a postal address & I will post copies of them to you. Or Gate 5 pre game Sunday if u prefer. No exchange rquired.

[i'm new here .... but does anybody have an inventory of Demon items?? IE I have a copy of the 1960 GF & an old woollen jumper with the team of the century embroided. Seems useful that somebody would have a recorded of who has what]

Edited June 19, 201212 yr by Nineteen

I dont know if its already been said on this thread but I know Melbourne members voted in favour of the merger, 4,679 to 4,229. However was it true that there were Melbourne supporters outside the hall who didnt get a chance to vote? I find it quite embarrassing that those numbers were in favour for the merger. Can someone confirm with me that there were Melbourne supporters outside the hall that night that wanted to vote against the merger but were unable to?

There were members not allowed in who wanted to vote and there were also "proxy" memberships bought up by wealthy Melbourne supporters and used to vote for the merger. If Hawthorn voted for the merger they would have faced a lengthy court challenge to get the new team up.

  On 16/06/2012 at 05:34, old dee said:

Are you sure it has really changed a lot 640MD

Your probably correct, Old Dee, nothing much changed

We were tolerated at the Demon Dances in the MCC rooms years ago,

Its just different people doing the tolerating now and I am 40 years older !!

Go Dees

  On 18/06/2012 at 12:01, JUMPING JACK CLENNETT said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "Wow", Jarka.

Are you surprised by my description of Ridley's behaviour that night?

Believe me, it was grossly intimidating. He set the pattern for a night of hatred, where rational discussion was not on the agenda.

Mate, you compared him to Hitler, do you honestly believe that? Seriously?

I was there that night and I believe he made the incorrect conclusion and was wrong for seeking a merger....but....this 'night of hatred' stuff is wrong. It wasn't like that. Everytime he took the mike he was constantlly abused and shouted down. He had to raise his voice so people could hear him. Do you not remember that happening? Do you seriosuly have such selective memory that you've forgotten all of that?

I agree that the level of abuse that night was disgusting and revolting, but it came from the floor. Ridley and co did not abuse or swear once, the whole night, but the rock apes sitting in front of them kept it up all night.

If you were one of the rock apes then that explains why you compared him to Hitler.

Seriously

  On 19/06/2012 at 10:08, Dr. Gonzo said:

There were members not allowed in who wanted to vote and there were also "proxy" memberships bought up by wealthy Melbourne supporters and used to vote for the merger. If Hawthorn voted for the merger they would have faced a lengthy court challenge to get the new team up.

I know abou the 'Guest' proxy cheating. He purchased memberships for all his staff then submitted proxy voyes on their behalf. No idea if they even knew they had a membership, pathetic stuff and in my opinion at the very least it's against the spirit of a sporting club, and very close to being illegal (can any solicitors assist here, unless you're going to charge me per minute...).

Now, about the lockout. I've previously explained what I believed to have taken place, but I want to go into more depth with your opinion. So, what you're saying is that there were people at the doors asking people how they were going to vote and not allowing them in whilst letting the pro-mergers through? Because this is what you're saying.

Why do so many people want to keep raking over the events of 'that' night. The board members who proposed the merger are no longer involved in the Club at board level. It's a pity that the passion people are expressing about the merger isn't being put into the survival of the Club today.

Get over it!

  On 19/06/2012 at 23:24, Hip & Shoulder said:

Why do so many people want to keep raking over the events of 'that' night. The board members who proposed the merger are no longer involved in the Club at board level. It's a pity that the passion people are expressing about the merger isn't being put into the survival of the Club today.

Get over it!

This is a forum discussing the MFC, if people want to discuss the past then how does it harm you in any way at all? As you have seen people are still highly emotional about it, they need to vent their anger ans hatred about feeling betrayed (Hitler comparison's aside). You clearly don't want to hear about it so don't open the thread.

Simple solution, everyone's happy.

  On 19/06/2012 at 23:24, Hip & Shoulder said:

Why do so many people want to keep raking over the events of 'that' night. The board members who proposed the merger are no longer involved in the Club at board level. It's a pity that the passion people are expressing about the merger isn't being put into the survival of the Club today.

Get over it!

Hip & Shoulder I am not sure how much more the average member can do.

- we have helped reduce the $5 million debt to ZERO

- we have bought memberships ( 35000 of us) for 5 years of pityful performance on the field

- we go to games to support the team knowing full well we are in for a belting most games.

What more do you suggest we can do ?

-

  On 19/06/2012 at 23:33, old dee said:

Hip & Shoulder I am not sure how much more the average member can do.

- we have helped reduce the $5 million debt to ZERO

- we have bought memberships ( 35000 of us) for 5 years of pityful performance on the field

- we go to games to support the team knowing full well we are in for a belting most games.

What more do you suggest we can do ?

-

drink heavily....Tyrells...lol...it all helps......hick !!!

The reason it upsets me so much is that a couple of years ago after a great win by the Dees in Brisbane at the after-match function I met a fellow supporter I hadn't seen for years. Gutnick was mentioned, I said that in my opinion he didn't save the club, and the person I had been talking to turned her back on me and walked away without another word.

That's why I want the subject put to bed.

It's ridiculous that it's still causing that sort of angst.

What are we doing?

Every year we have this thread and every year we have the same argument, and every year we don't get anywhere.

You can sit and stew and rail at the dead if you want to, you can argue unverifiable truths like I was about to do, and you can have your determination to never get to that point again.

But let's let the hate go?

I have a family member who is still not forgiven by some for a role played.

That is pathetic and toxic.

Just let it go and realise that we are all Demons and the past is as useful now as it is unchangeable.

We are all Demons.

Edited June 19, 201212 yr by rpfc

We are stil only Demons for the goings of that fateful evening at the Hall. I agree we all need to move on. manyhad good and decent intentions.Much would have seemed a logical progression at the time.

imover it, but thankful we are still Demons...and not Dorks !!

Voting for the MFC to merge would be akin to selling off my wife to a career in the porn industry.

If you voted it for it you are disgrace.

Both then and now.

Some things should always be sacred

  On 20/06/2012 at 00:04, belzebub59 said:

We are stil only Demons for the goings of that fateful evening at the Hall. I agree we all need to move on. manyhad good and decent intentions.Much would have seemed a logical progression at the time.

imover it, but thankful we are still Demons...and not Dorks !!

or Mawks for that matter

mawk·ish/ˈmôkiSH/

Adjective:

• Sentimental in a feeble or sickly way: "a mawkish poem".
  
• Having a faint sickly flavor: "the mawkish smell of warm beer".
  

Synonyms: maudlin