Jack Watts

[Guest Dr Who]

What a load of drivel. Did you hear Mark Neeld in his first meeting with the players ? He stated that players could look at the player next to them and know that when it's their turn to go they'll go or they soon won't be in the team. There are some non-negotiables in footy and I don't care how different some players are if they can't or won't put their body on the line they're useless to this club. Do you have any idea of the intensity required in finals ?

I've never booed my own and never will, but I do recognise that Watts' efforts in the physicality stakes are often poor. Put simply, he's soft. I keep reading that he's only 21, etc, but they're just excuses from supporters that spend their lives making excuses for their little darlings. Nathan Fyfe is a skinny 189cm/86 kilo footballer that exemplifies courage. His attack on the contest and efforts in dangerous marking situations puts Watts to shame. The same with Jeremy Cameron from GWS who's in his first year. He's 196cms - the same height as Watts, is 89 kilos, is over two years younger, has played only 4 games, yet throws himself at marking contests in a fashion that I'm yet to see from Watts and already has a 5 goal haul.

Footy is a brutal sport and some don't cut the mustard. That's life. It's not too late for Watts, but if you can't see that he's a mile off where he needs to be take up watching another sport. Btw, did you call Jakovich and Jurrah "greats" ? Oh dear.

Nat may have "attacked" a few more contests than even Freo would have liked - possibly before his body is fully ready to compete in AFL footy. Sounds like his shoulder is history - such is life.

Jeremy Cameron might be his first year of AFL but he spent 12 months in the gym @ GWS before he played his first game in anger - there is a novel idea. 12 months of hard core fitness & strength work - who would have ever thought that would help you with AFL football. (only the AFL)

I love how you only ever give 1/2 the story.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Dr Who

[Hannibal 5,814]

Nat may have "attacked" a few more contests than even Freo would have liked - possibly before his body is fully ready to compete in AFL footy. Sounds like his shoulder is history - such is life.

Jeremy Cameron might be his first year of AFL but he spent 12 months in the gym @ GWS before he played his first game in anger - there is a novel idea. 12 months of hard core fitness & strength work - who would have ever thought that would help you with AFL football. (only the AFL)

I love how you only ever give 1/2 the story.

Of course Cameron has done weights. They start doing weights at 17. It doesn't change the fact that he's played 40 games less that Watts, is more than two years younger, is also in a crap team, and shows the type of courage in marking contests that Watts could only dream of.

You really have no clue about footy, which is a mighty effort considering the amount of time you spend on a footy forum.

[Clanger King 9]

Jack is developing along nicely if you ask me (3 out of 4 games) and I think the coaching stuff would think the same. I think they have come to the fact that he isn't going to be a CHF and so be it. No big deal I would rather the ball in his hand 15-20 times a game then in the hands of Jack Grimes 35 times a game.

He will be fine everyone needs to relax so what if he isnt the toughest footballe in the land, hes all class and polish and who ever says toughness can't be taught are kidding themselves, I played many seasons at higher levels against Kade Simpson and Josh Gibson and I can tell you they weren't at all tough but overtime they have defiantly changed.

[Range Rover 1,935]

The problem here is that we all so desperately want a champion running around in the no.4 guernsey but I think most of us know in our heart-of-hearts that Jack isn't going to be one. Champions have presence and that indomitable will to win. That ultra-competitive desire to be first at everything.

Can you teach these things? Maybe, possibly, but I doubt it. It's an uphill battle. Jack to me seems like a pretty happy and content young bloke. Losing doesn't upset him too much and think he's actually on record as having said that.

I've wondered whether the pressure of all of this might get too much for him at some stage and he'll pull up anchor and go play basketball. It wouldn't surprise if the thought had already crossed his mind.

[Still Waiting 94]

Crawf52, so now you have elected yourself to be judge and jury of posts here! Glad you agree with me that Neeld knows a lot more about all of this, than you or I do. I am glad you read my previous posts on this and decided to agree with me on that very point. Now the white-ant inference, ouch, that really is hurtfull ! Such rank language is not the sort of stuff we like on here, tut, tut!

People like you just like to disagree with anyone who has the kahoonas to speak their mind. I choose to associate with people who never accept inept performances and I continually strive to eradicate this syndrome from my daily business and friendship circles. You just plod along then...............have fun.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

"I've got a coaching mantra: Everyone has a role in our structure and when it's their turn to go, they must play their part."

Neeld and the boys wont except under performers for too long from here, regardless of whether it's a No.1 draft pick, No. 8 or No. 30. I have faith they'll sort this out (including Watts & others) in the next few months and seasons.

As Neeld said, when it's their turn to go, each player will have to play his part. I'm not worried about past reputations anymore. All players, including Watts, will need to step up or they'll be asked to move aside for those who show that they're fully committed to what's being asked by Neeld and the other line coaches.

Unfortunately it was very obvious last week that Watts appears to have missed the boat....for now. I'm pretty sure Neeld and the boys aren't blind. Question is, where to from here for Watts?

One thing i do know. He'll have to find the "Half Ahead" button pretty quickly. Find some hardness of mind and body, and find it real fast, if he wants to play his part in this new crew going forward. A crew that's already in "Full Ahead" mode.

The rest of this season will be a huge sorting out of those players who are going to meet and make it under the Neeld mantra, and some who unfortunately just wont. Hopefully Watts will be in the former. If not, he wont be the first No.1 draft pick to not make the grade at AFL level.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Rusty Nails

[binman 42,591]

I am honestly perplexed by the trenchant criticisms of Jack Watts by a handful of posters on Demonland. To be clear I am not a Jack Watts apologist nor do i see him through rose coloured glasses. I consider myself to be pretty objective when it comes to rating Melbourne players, have seen alot of them and I rate Watts highly.

I understand the query about his hardness at the ball etc. I had the same concerns (and voiced them on Demonland) before the start of the 2011 season. To summarise those comments, in my opinion, he had to show increased intensity. Which in my mind, having watched him closely all season, he did. This view was largely shared on Demonalnd IIRC and most posters here would also have been watching closely.

The issue of his supposed lack of hardness seems to me to overly colour the view of Jack, in the same way that the occasional flashes of athletic brilliance overly colours the opinions of many about Natanui (top 50 in the league - give me a break). Yes there are times he could be more physical with his attack at the ball but look, at this stage that is not his go - and perhaps never will be. That said his intensity improved last year and was acceptable and likewise has been ok this season.

Clearly Neeld agrees or else he would have dropped him. Neeld made it perfectly clear when he started (and multiple times since) no one would get picked on reputation, that he was starting with a clean sheet, there would be no passengers and furthermore specifically publicly put Watts on notice. Does anyone seriously believe he would compromise himself with his players (who of course know better than anyone who is putting in and who isn't) or risk losing their respect and pick Watts when it wasn't warranted? Watch the snippet of his first speech before answering. So if we assume the answer is no, his continued selection is evidence that in regard to intensity (and his general performance level for that matter) he has satisfied Neeld and the FD, who are both well paid and well placed to make that assessment. That's good enough for me.

So what about the other facets of his game. He is by far the best user of the footy in the team - by far, as evidenced by his disposal efficiency statistics. As we all have seen this is absolutely crucial in footy generally but even more so in a team of disposal spuds. He almost always takes the right option. He kicks equally well of both feet, indeed he is a better left foot kick than almost every other player in the team is on their natural foot in terms of not missing targets. He is clean with his hands, amazing below his knees and quick (for any size).

The deft touches he so often does (clearly influenced by his basketball background) are creative and bring other players into the game. On that point i reckon these taps on and flicks etc sometimes unfairly give the impression he's not going hard at it, but they can be devastating. He is unselfish and has incredibly quick hands - as an example watch the bit of play in the 3rd quarter last week (AFL video on Bigpond) where he gives off to Davey putting him in space (who then gives it to Beamer who gets hungry, doesn't give the easy ball over to Dunn who was completely free and misses a sitter - Watts would have almost certainly got it to Dunn). He is a team player and looks to bring others into the game, as evidenced by his goal assist stats (a stat coaches apparently put alot of store in)

I say all of the above because as i say i reckon many in the media and some on this site are not objective enough about him. There is way too much discussion (and has been throughout his brief career) about being number a 1 draft pick. Its a totally moot point now and again distract from objectively assessing him. Facts are he finished 9th in the Bluey last year and apart from last week has been amongst our best this year and has consistently put in

Is he star at the moment - no. Will he be? I am very confident he will be but understand why others may not. Could he be more physical? Of course, it is one of the weakness in his game. But watching him again on the replay you realise how skinny he still is (this is not an excuse by the way just a fact) and that he probably won't fill into his body until he is 23 or 24. When he does there is no doubt, even if he isn't as aggressive at the ball as say Hurley, he will be much, much stronger and will impose himself more through that strength. In the mean time the dees desperately need his skill and ability to create. Realistically he and Jurrah (and perhaps Frawley, apologies to Trennners) are currently the only players in the line-up who have the potential to be legitimate top shelf, A graders. Neeld has got him early enough and if he is as good a developer of players as his reputation suggest he is then Watts will fulfil that potential (and i'm sure be taught to be more direct in his attack, something another 5 kgs of muscle will help no end)

Edited May 2, 2012 by binman

[Sloth 8]

Pros:

• Would force him see more of the footy
  
• Would improve his physical game- body on the line going in for the bounce etc
  
• ^ I believe this would be good practice for positioning to take a contested mark up front for later on in his career
  
• Is tall enough- only 2cm shorter than Jamar.
  
• Can leap
  
• Has all the coordination needed and then some
  
• With Cook entering the fray as the next travis cloke, LJ back from whatever current dilemma, Clarke, Howe etc our forward line is looking increasingly armed
  
• Should improve his engine
  
• Sellar made redundant with Jamar/Gawn, Watts playing Ruck/2nd Ruck, Cook CHF, Tom Mcdonald becoming dangerous etc
  
• Playing a clear role in the team might improve his tenacity and confidence, since he hasn't really found his niche yet.
  
• We should have abundant small/med sized mid's after this draft so not really needed in the centre's.
  

Cons:

?

[The Chazz 4,077]

Mentioned this a couple of seasons back, so will be interested in seeing some responses...

I don't think it would be a full time option, but as you said, will force him to see more of the ball. Can't see it happening, but I think there are definite arguements for it.

[Jaded No More 68,855]

Cons

Unless you've trained as a ruckman before, your chances of doing a serious injury are very high.

Watts is no ruckman, never was, never will be. Why waste his development learning a very specific craft he'll never use long term?

Kthanxby.

[Nasher 33,607]

The two biggest concerns over Watts are hardness and fitness, and two of the most important attributes for rucking are hardness and fitness. And I don't agree that it forces him to see more of the ball - Mark Jamar wasn't dubbed "donuts" for years for a reason. Playing in the ruck doesn't guarantee getting a lot of the ball.

Edit: I also agree with Jaded's point. I remember seeing Jared Brennan contest his first (and last?) ruck contest for years ago and he got kneed in the guts first up. Most ruckmen have been doing it for years before they enter the AFL system and know what they're doing - I'd hate to see Watts get broken because he didn't.

[Guest José Mourinho]

WOW.

Just... WOW.

[Vanilla Gorilla 204]

I don't think it's such a bad idea at all. If he's going to be totally ineffective out there, he may as well be totally ineffective in the ruck rather than on a wing, in the middle or wherever he's supposed to be playing nowadays.

Being a back-up ruckman might add another string to his bow and continue his football education.

I was forced to play as a ruckman for my under 19's side a while back despite being significantly undersized, but had a leap on my (a la lynden dunn hahaha - still can't believe that actually happened). I saw myself as a "bigger" player in that role and over time it gave me confidence to do other bullocking things around the ground like taking pack marks and laying stronger tackles. Maybe the same might happen for JW?

[Little Richard 6,261]

Cons - he would win next to no hitouts, and the midfielders will see much less of the ball than they already do. We would struggle even more than we already do

[Sloth 8]

Cons

Unless you've trained as a ruckman before, your chances of doing a serious injury are very high.

Moot point. He wouldn't be played there without training (you'd hope).

Cons

Watts is no ruckman, never was, never will be. Why waste his development learning a very specific craft he'll never use long term?

Another string in his bow would be beneficial to the team. Think Lynden Dunn being used in the Ruck- successfully according to Todd Viney. Watts is taller, more skilled, and a better forward. Also Dunn still appears to be in good health

[Viney12 196]

Cons

Having a 105kg beast crashing into him time after time

I'll never forget what Jamar did to NicNat in their first encounter

[Nasher 33,607]

Why waste his development learning a very specific craft he'll never use long term?

Just read this post again and I think the above line should be bolded, italics-ed and underlined. Sums up the idea completely for me.

[Nasher 33,607]

Another string in his bow would be beneficial to the team. Think Lynden Dunn being used in the Ruck- successfully according to Todd Viney. Watts is taller, more skilled, and a better forward. Also Dunn still appears to be in good health

Lynden Dunn is completely dispensable though. If Dunn gets broken, you can just find another one (as harsh as that sounds). What Watts could be is very hard to find and I'd hate to put that at risk for something that doesn't have a lot of upside.

[rpfc 28,247]

We have got a massive investment we are trying to get a return on.

Let's throw him somewhere where he will get cut in half!

No dice.

And no to Clark either. Jamar, Martin, and Sellar can do the plodder's work in the ruck.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I expect we will see Garland proposed for the ruck as well given he has been pitched at nearly every position so far.

And hey why dont we ruck Morton??....Only kidding

[Demons 32 235]

Ugh..... No.

Jamar would be the number 1 ruck on every team besides the Eagles, Swans, Dockers.

Martin would be right in the race to be number 1 ruck at teams like the Hawks, Tigers, Power etc.

Our rucks are fine. Watts will be fine. Clark is fine. Just chill out and wait until we draft some midfielders.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Lynden Dunn is completely dispensable though. If Dunn gets broken, you can just find another one (as harsh as that sounds). What Watts could be is very hard to find and I'd hate to put that at risk for something that doesn't have a lot of upside.

Nasher our single biggest problem is turning out Precious players, Thats our biggest Weakness. Not enough with the guts of a Matty Whelan.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Nasher our single biggest problem is turning out Precious players, Thats our biggest Weakness. Not enough with the guts of a Matty Whelan.

It isnt.

And FWIW, I dont Jamar, Garland, Bartram, Bail, McKenzie, Jones, Tapscott, Frawley are precious.

MFC are not drafting, developing or producing stars.

And this move with Watts does not address the issue at all.

[binman 42,591]

MFC are not drafting, developing or producing stars.

Spot on. And this is not a recent phenomena that can be blamed on Bailey and BP, realistically it stretches probably as far back as the late sixties. Stars in my book are the elite, straight in to the all Austrlaian side no questions asked sort of players. I don't know but i'd be guessing we've had fewer AA selections on average than just about every other team

[P-man 13,366]

This reeks of panic to me. He had a bad week. Let's take a deep breath eh?