... like trying to change a golf swing

[Dr. Mubutu 694]

Jazz musicians have got far more ability to improvise and do their own thing within the team. In a classical orchestra that would be frowned on.

Perhaps the football analogy is that we want a structured, disciplined team but ultimately with some ability for individual improvisation. Don't want to kill the 'joy of football' completely.

Probably should have clarified:

Yes, you're right, but in jazz, you have to have more knowledge of and trust in your fellow musician because of this.

That is the analogy we want, but I'm still yet to see why these skills and the basic effort is not coming across. This would be the easiest thing to apply, but the players STILL aren't getting it.

[Ouch! 2,034]

Frankly, at the moment, I'd settle for clinically perfect. Even without the feel, surely the players can deliver that? It seems at the moment, they have just forgotten even how to play football. You can't blame a gameplan for that.

Me too

This is probably where the music and footy analogies end. The players don't have the feel/instinct to do things spontaneously. With Music you know whats coming, you know when you are verse/chorus etc. You know you when to play loud, soft, when to start when to finish, when your shredding guitar solo is.... its all prepared and known before hand, and there are no suprises unless someone throws something @ you on stage!

Footy is unpredicable and this is where the instinct and knowing where you are/should be, and those around you... Without "this" touch we look slow, unsure, flat footed, prone to errors.

[monoccular 16,043]

Jazz musicians have got far more ability to improvise and do their own thing within the team. In a classical orchestra that would be frowned on.

Perhaps the football analogy is that we want a structured, disciplined team but ultimately with some ability for individual improvisation. Don't want to kill the 'joy of football' completely.

Maybe, though I am sure classic musos may question it, maybe jazz players have more intrinsic passion and drive (and ability) to change?

We want our guys to have the basic skills, but without the passion, and the ability to improvise, that will get absolutely nowhere.

Edited May 23, 2012 by monoccular

[Rob Mac...... 605]

Jazz musicians have got far more ability to improvise and do their own thing within the team. In a classical orchestra that would be frowned on.

Perhaps the football analogy is that we want a structured, disciplined team but ultimately with some ability for individual improvisation. Don't want to kill the 'joy of football' completely.

Enjoying the music analogies from over here. I've been a full time muso for 44 years or so & have always thought Aussie rules has so many analogies to music improvisation mostly (what I often do). Classical is about reading the chart verbatim & nothing else, but improvising is exactly like footy where the players are never twice in exactly the same position on the field (relative to everyone else) & at all times have to make the best move under those constantly changing, at least slightly, if not very unique situations. The simple aim may be win & maintain possession then kick goal, but achieving that is a constantly evolving fascinating art that I love.

[Ouch! 2,034]

Enjoying the music analogies from over here. I've been a full time muso for 44 years or so & have always thought Aussie rules has so many analogies to music improvisation mostly (what I often do). Classical is about reading the chart verbatim & nothing else, but improvising is exactly like footy where the players are never twice in exactly the same position on the field (relative to everyone else) & at all times have to make the best move under those constantly changing, at least slightly, if not very unique situations. The simple aim may be win & maintain possession then kick goal, but achieving that is a constantly evolving fascinating art that I love.

I like that analogy, makes sense