A TALE OF TWO GAMES

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

The slowness of the team I believe has a lot to do with poor acceleration (not necessarily top speed). I've mentioned this many times but Trengove's biggest weakness is his first five steps. It's interesting watching Jurrah who might not have the greatest top speed but over his first ten metres he really fires up. This needs to be how all the players are, it creates space and gives them more time and opportunity to dispose of the ball. This will also help increase disposal efficiency as players aren't forced to hit targets under as much pressure. This would also help with the spread, as I mentioned earlier Geelong think two or three possessions ahead, they move for one and other to create opportunities instead of just ball watching all the time.

Even watching GWS today, the players always looked to be light footed, never standing around always moving and when then did move their acceleration was quick. I hope the coaches have noticed this too because it is glaringly obvious.

I agree CB Trengove has little acceleration over his first few steps, and it is critical to his career.

Allen Jakovich was not quick but his initial 5 steps were very quick allowing him to own front position often.

With Trengove if he has no acceleration then his possessions are often rushed, thus not to our advantage.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Comparing Trapper to White shows you have NFI about football. The amount of revisionist [censored] hung on good players like White and a good coach in Danners around here is an absolute disgrace. We contested six finals series from 98 to 06 and Jeff White was superb in this period, particularly in 04, when he was the best ruckman in the land. You imply White had no heart, well he showed steely resolve against the Dogs in late 05 to get us into the finals and got his face destroyed by Geelong's Steven King trying to contest a ball for his troubles. Guys like Jamar, always conspicuously absent from the leadership group, are the reason we lack leadership; not fantastic players from a decade ago.

There's no point in heaping [censored] on White but neither is there in heaping it on Jamar. I've seen Jamar come off the ground barely able to walk so I don't think you can question his commitment or leadership. I think it was the game against Port in Darwin a couple of years ago that he was so exhausted after the game he asked if he could sit when they interviewed him.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

You sure about that champ. Which way does he run, ONLY FORWARDS. When he attempts to bust through the pack and he gets HTB, who points fingers and gets angry at teammates?? Who is the one that comes out to play in the lesser games?? Who is the supposed on-field leader, heart and soul of the club, who doesn't give a yelp for more than half the game??

That's right, one B.Moloney!

So buddy, look at his stats, look at his gamestyle, look at his onfield antics and then come talk!

I'm talkin.

So you'd quickly get rid of one of our only hard bodied, experienced mids, passionate about the club, recent Bluey winner?

We need him. In what is a very poor midfield, he's perhaps amongst our most important players.

May not be performing ATM, granted, but not good enough reason to crucify him. We would have few left on the park at years end if that was the measuring stick.

Amazing how quickly we kick a player when he's out of form. Talk about short memory.

Ridiculous.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

So you'd quickly get rid of one of our only hard bodied, experienced mids, passionate about the club, recent Bluey winner?

We need him. In what is a very poor midfield, he's perhaps amongst our most important players.

If Beamer is one of our most important players going forward, we are in dire trouble. 2 disposals in the 3rd Q yesterday when the game alive.

I do not want him teaching Jack Viney the ropes next year.

[DEELIRIOUS 156]

If Beamer is one of our most important players going forward, we are in dire trouble. 2 disposals in the 3rd Q yesterday when the game alive.

I do not want him teaching Jack Viney the ropes next year.

Well Moonshadow, this says it all, against his old team mind you!

[stuie 7,374]

Yup, people bagging the bejesus out of our reigning BnF for not setting the world on fire when we're 0-5 and he has zero help (aside from Jones) in the middle...

Must be the Demons.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

Yup, people bagging the bejesus out of our reigning BnF for not setting the world on fire when we're 0-5 and he has zero help (aside from Jones) in the middle...

Must be the Demons.

Yes it must be, and why not.

It's 0-6 actually.

Things must change.

Edited May 6, 2012 by why you little

[monoccular 17,573]

Some general observations from today's game:

One key observation I made today between the two teams - Geelomg's pin point passing. How many times did they hit the lead up target with a drilled pass that gave our defenders no chance to spoil. Whereas if you look at our team, which players came close in to matching this high skill level? You would struggle to name them.

I may be reading too much into this, but... Brent Moloney's body language is terrible. Not sure if to do with the leadership or what, but needs to lift his game.

Leg speed: we do not have it! How many times did Geelong players burn us through the middle of the corner with shear pace.

I haven't seen the last two games, but if this is true, IF he has the sulks re "leadership" then he can go pi55 off!!!

T'would be totally unacceptable behaviour.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

If Beamer is one of our most important players going forward, we are in dire trouble. 2 disposals in the 3rd Q yesterday when the game alive.

I do not want him teaching Jack Viney the ropes next year.

I'd be pretty certain there will be more than one person working with JV next year.

In amongst a group of quality mids, Beamer will be a very good contributor. In a team with few mids, he's targeted by opponents as one of the only that can have an impact.

Few outside of here would say the game was really alive in Q3, that is unless you are comparing it to 186.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

I'd be pretty certain there will be more than one person working with JV next year.

In amongst a group of quality mids, Beamer will be a very good contributor. In a team with few mids, he's targeted by opponents as one of the only that can have an impact.

Few outside of here would say the game was really alive in Q3, that is unless you are comparing it to 186.

The MFC were 14 points behind during the 3rd Q. I call that game on.

If Beamer was a real gun he would find a way to impose himself on a game against class midfields. He doesn't sadly.

I know he loves the club, but he just does not impose when really needed. 2 disposals from our "best" midfielder during the premiership quarter does not cut it.

[stuie 7,374]

The MFC were 14 points behind during the 3rd Q. I call that game on.

If Beamer was a real gun he would find a way to impose himself on a game against class midfields. He doesn't sadly.

I know he loves the club, but he just does not impose when really needed. 2 disposals from our "best" midfielder during the premiership quarter does not cut it.

Ok, so where's the "I blame Beamer for" thread now... Ridiculous

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Ok, so where's the "I blame Beamer for" thread now... Ridiculous

I don't think it's a case of blaming Beamer it's more a case of realising his limitations and understanding that even if he's close to our best midfielder he just doesn't measure up to the best other sides have. Unfortunately when the heat is on, like the rest of our senior players over the last few years, he goes missing.

Perhaps someone can point to a game where we have won because Beamer produced a stellar performance in the last quarter to get us over the line. For that mater can anyone think of any game over the last 5 or 10 years where any one of our players has carried the club to victory where we've been facing defeat.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Ok, so where's the "I blame Beamer for" thread now... Ridiculous

Sounds like its all Beamer's fault.

Sheesh!

[stuie 7,374]

I don't think it's a case of blaming Beamer it's more a case of realising his limitations and understanding that even if he's close to our best midfielder he just doesn't measure up to the best other sides have. Unfortunately when the heat is on, like the rest of our senior players over the last few years, he goes missing.

Perhaps someone can point to a game where we have won because Beamer produced a stellar performance in the last quarter to get us over the line. For that mater can anyone think of any game over the last 5 or 10 years where any one of our players has carried the club to victory where we've been facing defeat.

Look, I'm not saying the guy is an elite midfielder, but the way some are bagging him on here is WAY over the top.

And personally, I think the reason alot seem to think he "goes missing" is because no one steps up to shoulder some of the load, can you name ANYONE from our midfield that has stepped up in a 4th quarter, or even a 3rd quarter, it just doesn't happen, so Beamer cops all the attention and responsibility, and then cops all the abuse on here for not being Judd.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Look, I'm not saying the guy is an elite midfielder, but the way some are bagging him on here is WAY over the top.

And personally, I think the reason alot seem to think he "goes missing" is because no one steps up to shoulder some of the load, can you name ANYONE from our midfield that has stepped up in a 4th quarter, or even a 3rd quarter, it just doesn't happen, so Beamer cops all the attention and responsibility, and then cops all the abuse on here for not being Judd.

No, no one is capable of doing it, Jones tries but just doesn't have the talent.

That's because he's our most senior and decorated midfielder, more is expected of him.

[stuie 7,374]

No, no one is capable of doing it, Jones tries but just doesn't have the talent.

That's because he's our most senior and decorated midfielder, more is expected of him.

I just think the expectations are a bit high of someone who has little to no backup, which is essential to ANY successful midfield

[rpfc 28,762]

I don't think Beamer would be happy with how things are going, so why should I?

[rpfc 28,762]

I just think the expectations are a bit high of someone who has little to no backup, which is essential to ANY successful midfield

We are not looking for 'world beating Moloney' - we are looking for him to get back to his 2011 form (even if it was up and down).

And as for the 'backup' issue - he is not giving much to Jones who seems to be a lone, consistent hand in there at the minute.

So it is hardly that problem for Beamer at the minute. They are all down, but we all expect more from Beamer because he can provide more and because he is a senior player.

[Axis of Bob 11,841]

You need to look at Beamer for what he is - a good solid AFL inside midfielder. He was OK on the weekend, but we look at other teams and expect our number one midfielder to be a star. Beamer is our best midfielder, but he's not in the top class.

Just because he's our best doesn't make him a star. But he's still a good player for us.

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

Comparing Trapper to White shows you have NFI about football. The amount of revisionist [censored] hung on good players like White and a good coach in Danners around here is an absolute disgrace. We contested six finals series from 98 to 06 and Jeff White was superb in this period, particularly in 04, when he was the best ruckman in the land. You imply White had no heart, well he showed steely resolve against the Dogs in late 05 to get us into the finals and got his face destroyed by Geelong's Steven King trying to contest a ball for his troubles. Guys like Jamar, always conspicuously absent from the leadership group, are the reason we lack leadership; not fantastic players from a decade ago.

Lets get our facts right the comparison with White & Trapper is two guys with absolute natural talent who never got the best out of themselves and yes White was very good in 04 from memory an AA in that year. Still stand by him never being as good as he could have.

Wow he nailed a goal in 2005 and thats steely resolve is it, plenty of players have done that, ask Jordy Mcmahon. Get a tape of the 2005 final against Geelong it was a simple ruck contest from a boundary throw in the ball went loose and KING wildly lashed out in an attempt to kick the ball and took Whites head off. I don't think it was a case of him throwing his head where angels fear to tread but you keep playing with the facts.

Check other posts I have made Danners left our list in a terrible state for his refusal to turn the list over, Yze, Trapper White and others all got games when they should have been dropped. In Danners defence the club did not give him much in the way of cash to assist with FD staff but with a few tweaks and accountability to the list at his disposal and we could and should have almost taken a flag between 2000-2006

Edited May 6, 2012 by Pennant St Dee

[Moonshadow 17,677]

I don't think Beamer would be happy with how things are going, so why should I?

I don't think anyone here is happy with where we are, but throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the answer. There is no answer as simple as that.

Yes, as the current most senior mid we would like to see him show more. However, i believe he's worth more to us than the trade we would get for him at years end, partic if it was us offering him up. The reality is we don't have an A grade midfielder, far from it, but Beamer shouldn't be the scapegoat for poor midfield recruitment and development.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

I don't think anyone here is happy with where we are, but throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the answer. There is no answer as simple as that.

Yes, as the current most senior mid we would like to see him show more. However, i believe he's worth more to us than the trade we would get for him at years end, partic if it was us offering him up. The reality is we don't have an A grade midfielder, far from it, but Beamer shouldn't be the scapegoat for poor midfield recruitment and development.

Beamer is not a scapegoat at all.

What he is, is over rated by most.

Hawthorn will rip him to bits if he plays.

And supporters will make all the excuses. Read all the demon forums on facebook...Beamer is a legend. It is actually quite sad.

If Hawthorn belt MFC next friday & GW$ beat the $un$...we the great MFC could be 18th on the ladder.

Beamer will still be a legend though...things must change.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Beamer is not a scapegoat at all.

What he is, is over rated by most.

Hawthorn will rip him to bits if he plays.

And supporters will make all the excuses. Read all the demon forums on facebook...Beamer is a legend. It is actually quite sad.

If Hawthorn belt MFC next friday & GW$ beat the $un$...we the great MFC could be 18th on the ladder.

Beamer will still be a legend though...things must change.

Didn't realise that I was calling Beamer a legend. My apologies wyl.

[Guest gidon]

WYL, if you expect Moloney to carve up the Hawthorn midfield you are expecting way too much of one man. Moloney needs alot of help from his midfield 'just' to be competative. You are right about, if Moloney is our best midfielder we are in trouble. He is our best midfielder and we are in trouble. If Moloney was our 4th or 5th best midfielder he would be very valuable and we would be a finals team

Im not sure why a forward like Watts would be better off playing on the 3rd best defender with the inclusion of Clark and a potentially dangerous forward like Martin/Sellar like was touted pre-season, and Moloney would not be better off not being tagged with 3 to 4 better midfielders taking the pressure off him..

Moloney is very good footballer, and he should not be the best mid fielder in a team. He is what he is and is still important to our make up and the development of the young ones. Just like Magner is important and he has only played 5 games

[Geddy Lee 582]

Lets get our facts right the comparison with White & Trapper is two guys with absolute natural talent who never got the best out of themselves and yes White was very good in 04 from memory an AA in that year. Still stand by him never being as good as he could have.

Those aren't facts PSD.

We should have not pinched a flag between 00-06, we were never the best team or had the best list. Daniher got a lot out his teams, with limited resources.

If you feel the need to pot White, go ahead, but you obviously didn't see the Dogs game if you're comparing his effort to Jordan McMahon's. He was a bloody good player, shorter than Jack Watts, and should not be compared to Travis Johnstone as lazy, an unfulfilled talent and an underserved selection.