Father son drafting rules

[Viney+Brayshaw+Hogan=Flag 32]

Hi can someone please explain to me exactly how the father son works. If we end up with pick 4, can a team with pick 10 make us use pick 4? Or can only a team with a better pick than our first pick force us to use it? Can a team use any first round pick whether it be pick 2 or pick 16 to force us to use our first pick?

[Striker475 696]

Only a team with a pick above us can force us to use it.

If we had pick 1, we would not have to use it on JV. The teams bid on the particular player. The club must then take the player with the next available pick or elect to give the player up. If they give it up, the club that bid higher is obligated to take them IIRC (don't think it's happened yet though)

[Bang Na Demon 165]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father-Son_Rule

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

You would have to think at this stage we are a chance for 16th spot. I would have thought before the year we would at least finish before Port and Bris, but now im not so sure...

I wonder if we did finish 16th, above GC and GWS, if one of those clubs would make us use our first pick for Jack, knowing we have already committed to him (assuming he ends up being a top 5 player)?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

You would have to think at this stage we are a chance for 16th spot. I would have thought before the year we would at least finish before Port and Bris, but now im not so sure...

I wonder if we did finish 16th, above GC and GWS, if one of those clubs would make us use our first pick for Jack, knowing we have already committed to him (assuming he ends up being a top 5 player)?

We have committed, we WILL be forced to use any pick after 1 i would bet alot of money on it.

Would we force Essendon to use pick 2 on Daniher even if we didnt think he was worth it? every day of the week

We will end up paying even odds for Viney in my eyes, around pick 3-5

[daisycutter 29,605]

just to add to the wiki article

next available pick does not include our compo picks - only regular draft picks based on finishing position

[Redleg 40,864]

We have committed, we WILL be forced to use any pick after 1 i would bet alot of money on it.

Would we force Essendon to use pick 2 on Daniher even if we didnt think he was worth it? every day of the week

We will end up paying even odds for Viney in my eyes, around pick 3-5

Not so sure that GWS or GC would make us use say pick 3 if we finished 16th as we could actually then take one of the two best players in the country. They would probably be better than JV. I don't think they would risk it. If we finished higher than 16th we would probably have to give our first round pick. That is how I see it. Also you could trade a player or picks etc and include that condition in the deal.

[JJJ 1,220]

I'm not too concerned. I have it on excellent authority that we will make out like bandits no matter where we pick.

The best bit is that Jack fills a lot of needs for our midfield.

The Daniher kid is pretty good too.

[dennis jones 1]

I'm not too concerned. I have it on excellent authority that we will make out like bandits no matter where we pick.

The best bit is that Jack fills a lot of needs for our midfield.

The Daniher kid is pretty good too.

[daisycutter 29,605]

i don't follow your logic redleg

we have contracted with jv to take him

[dennis jones 1]

Sorry about that!

Surely we have made a huge error with regard to the very public acceptance of him into our club.

Would it not be too late to tear up the 'heads of agreement' ,with Todd and Jack's knowledge, and tell the football world we will not be using our first pick on him?

In effect, we will be calling the bluff of GWS and others into taking him first ,running the risk they will miss on Whitfield etc.- a risk they will be unwilling to take.

As it stands, we will be taking Viney pick 3 or 4 in the hope he is that good! If others pass we will get him in the second round. If they nominate him we can still take him, although unethical. We have the possibility of securing 3 first rounders + Viney- at least that is my understanding- sadly I think the horse has well and truly bolted!

[Vanilla Gorilla 204]

I have a question. (Assuming we have to take Jack in the 1st round) Can we use of of our 2 compensatory picks to take JV? Or does it have to be our actual draft pick?

[daisycutter 29,605]

I have a question. (Assuming we have to take Jack in the 1st round) Can we use of of our 2 compensatory picks to take JV? Or does it have to be our actual draft pick?

see #6 above

[Dee Fan 3,247]

just to add to the wiki article

next available pick does not include our compo picks - only regular draft picks based on finishing position

It's my understanding we only activated one compo pick, the one directly after our first pick, is that the case?

[daisycutter 29,605]

It's my understanding we only activated one compo pick, the one directly after our first pick, is that the case?

pretty sure it was both robbie. someone else may cohirm

[Redleg 40,864]

It's my understanding we only activated one compo pick, the one directly after our first pick, is that the case?

We activated both.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

pretty sure it was both robbie. someone else may cohirm

Yep, we've activated both picks. http://www.afl.com.a...93/default.aspx

EDIT: Beat me to it while I was looking for the link, Redleg

Edited April 8, 2012 by Good Times Grimes

[Dee Fan 3,247]

We activated both.

Thanks guys I just googled it too, all the better in a good draft year.

[redman 28]

So thinking out loud here - this is how I understand the situation: Assuming we finish where we feel we will after the past two matches - 16th.

Mini Draft

Pick 1 - GWS

Pick 2 - GC

Pick 3 - Demons

Pick 4 - Compo Pick (first round)

Pick 9 - Compo Pick (mid first round)

We don't have to use either of our Compo Picks so they remain the same, so the only way we would need to use Pick 3 on Viney is if either GWS or GC nominate him pre-trade week that they would use either Picks 1 or 2 respectively on JV.

However, if we decide not to match that bid then they are locked in to using that pick on Viney. That then allows a Whitfield type to slip down to us at 3 in a worst case scenario

Therefore, it comes down to whether they want to give up a Whitfield/Stringer for instance for Viney and risk that Melbourne does match the bid with the next available (Pick 3),

With the strong family link there's not a hope in hell that we wouldn't match it - but do they still risk it?

So in a perfect situation they don't match it and we keep picks as above and use our second round pick in the late 20's (factoring in other compo picks pushing it down the order) on JV.

That's 4 first round quality players in super draft being compared to the Hodge/Judd/Ball in depth.

Not bad.

[DirtyDees DDC 176]

Beat me to the punch Redman.

From Wikipedia:

Current Rule

In 2007 the AFL made an important amendment for the father-son rule, establishing a bidding system to determine which draft pick a club must give up to secure the potential recruit. The current system works as follows:^[2][3][4]

• 1. Individual clubs are free to nominate potential father-son recruits within the above eligibility guidelines.
  
• 2. A meeting is held on the Monday before the start of trade week where clubs can bid for the nominated players. Each club has the option to bid, in reverse ladder order, for the nominated players.
  
• 3. If a bid is made, the club that nominated the father-son player must use its next available selection if it wishes to retain its hold on that player. If a club nominating the father-son player declines to match the selection nominated, the club with the successful bid must use that selection at the Draft to select the player.
  
• 4. Any club that makes a successful bid on a father-son selection must commit to pick the player they nominate.
  
• 5. If no bid is made by another club, the club that nominated the father-son eligible player will forfeit its last selection in the draft to select the player.
  

For example in 2008 the Western Bulldogs had to use their 1st round selection, #14, to secure Ayce Cordy after St Kilda bid their 1st round selection for him. Ayce's father, Brian, played 124 games for theBulldogs in the 1980s.^[5]

Possible scenario: If we finish 16th ahead of GWS and GFC, they will have to bid for Viney to force us to match their bid, and we select him at pick 3. I believe the club will certainly honour their commitment to pick jack under the father-son rule.

If they don't, and another club bids for him with their first round pick, we can wait till round 2 to use our selection. Is this correct?

That would give us 3 first round selections, plus the opportunity to get a top grade draft pick between selections 21 and 30. Based on our current form, we will make every effort to win as many games as possible this year, and still finish 16th.

Edited April 8, 2012 by DirtyDees DDC

[whatwhat say what 22,708]

I don't think in the scenario of finishing 16th we get pick #9 as our mid-round one compensatory pick - it's after all other teams outside the 8 have used their picks, I think.

As the Dogs have elected to use their after their round 1 selection pick for Ward, it'd be pick #13 assuming they finish outside the top 8 as well.

I think GC17 have one too, but theirs is tied to where Adelaide finish, and they should - on balance - be a top 8 side.

[rpfc 28,280]

Not so sure that GWS or GC would make us use say pick 3 if we finished 16th as we could actually then take one of the two best players in the country. They would probably be better than JV. I don't think they would risk it. If we finished higher than 16th we would probably have to give our first round pick. That is how I see it. Also you could trade a player or picks etc and include that condition in the deal.

I think even if one club has the chance to make us take Viney with our highest pick they will make us take him.

It's what I would do.

[dennis jones 1]

Redman - you are absolutely correct in your summary!

My point is come out NOW and state that Viney is not definitely ours and call the bluff of Sheedy.

Sadly, i believe we're to far down the line to show this courage and I am extremely fearful that Jack does not warrant pick 3. Even if he does, our actions have all but precluded us for getting him at a 'bargain' in the second round.

To be honest this is far harder to swallow than the 100+ point loss to the Eagles etc.

[rpfc 28,280]

Can we just forget that?

Their is no bluff to make, we are not playing poker.

We will take Viney, the competition knows this.

It's the price you pay for keeping the Crows away last year.

GWS will finish below us, no matter how bad we play, therefore forget it - we will pay full price for Viney.

He is just what we need though, so I wouldn't worry.

[daisycutter 29,605]

Redman - you are absolutely correct in your summary!

My point is come out NOW and state that Viney is not definitely ours and call the bluff of Sheedy.

Sadly, i believe we're to far down the line to show this courage and I am extremely fearful that Jack does not warrant pick 3. Even if he does, our actions have all but precluded us for getting him at a 'bargain' in the second round.

To be honest this is far harder to swallow than the 100+ point loss to the Eagles etc.

?????????