On 09/04/2012 at 03:52, Dr Who said:

Very, Very good point & why people are looking to lay "blame" - they have run out of "patience".

But I question our "older generations" grasp of modern day AFL football issues - I think they have a very, very poor understanding.

Yes times have changed incredibly over the last 10-15 years thats for sure.

Maybe they have run out of patience because they havent got anything else to blame!!!

Oh well, I am very frustrated, but I will keep supporting and doing whatever I can. Still wont stop me from being angry when they dish out the tripe like the last 2 weeks!!! But I still love them.

  On 08/04/2012 at 04:00, Bitter but optimistic said:

Who/what the hell are you talking about?

It's the same thing as when you become intuitive about something, like a great guitarist playing free.

He doesn't have to think about his chords or the notes he may play, he just plays them from his sub conscious. Totally creative & spontaneous. Totally Intuitive. You don't think, you do.

Like when you walk, you don't think how to coordinate your muscles & stride to get your rhythm & balance. Your sub conscience does it automatically unless your injured, or in rehab.

When some one loves what their doing & totally believes in what they're doing with the confidence to back it, they just do what they believe is right, spontaneously... This knowing comes from total Honesty & Faith in themselves & what they do.... Like a healthy walker.

Or like a great experienced Coach, like Smith... But he was Outspoken, a Hot Gospeller, which some would be intimidated by his hard words, & probably didn't like those words, so by extension feel threatened by HIM.

He's a threat, we'll sack him.... And so they did.

They may have saved their own face re some ideology, But caused enormous grief to many...

This save face attitude is against Total Honesty, (or God) & only serves to save the shortcomings of those who are in power for their own self indulgences...

More self motivated individuals, rather than those who want to share equally & give everything they know to others who are motivated to learn & Improve.

Eg: some gripe about Barassi's harshness, but the real McCoys you'll find praise him for his help & wisdom.

Pretenders v A Graders. Differing attitudes. Some are thankful for the help, and some are bitter for the pressure, blind to what was given them. They just can't see the truth, but the A Graders, they could, and so took the path.

When someone is prepared to go out on a Limb to help others, who may not like to be helped off that creaking Tree, that Hero needs some understanding, trust, & support...

  On 09/04/2012 at 03:52, Dr Who said:

Very, Very good point & why people are looking to lay "blame" - they have run out of "patience".

But I question our "older generations" grasp of modern day AFL football issues - I think they have a very, very poor understanding.

As one of the older generation I have a very good grasp of footy issues and clubs> I have never been into the "Blame Game" So please don't think we are irrelevent and don't have an opinion which seems only for the young. This is descrimination of the highest order. The older generation actually started this club and made it a great club for you young whippersnappers to support. Things are not great at the moment but nothing lasts forever. Bad Post..

  On 08/04/2012 at 04:17, why you little said:

Yes i was wondering that!!

Deeluded has written some off the wall gear..This one is right up there!

BUILD THE STATUE OF NORM SMITH AT THE MCG...PRONTO.

WYL, Norm IMO, wasn't the type to care of statues. That I think is the whole point, that it's not about Him, (or he would think, It's not about ME)...

It's about wanting to share & achieve things amongst those you love & respect. Your team mates hopefully. your Club. Not for bragging rights, but to know you became & gave your best, and proved 'We Can'.

Norm wore an old overcoat. Not an 'Look at Me' thing about him... It's about teaching people to be Honest & the best you can be. Thats the rush, IMO, for someone like Him. Thats the Giving, Thanks.

  On 09/04/2012 at 04:32, Bossdog said:

As one of the older generation I have a very good grasp of footy issues and clubs> I have never been into the "Blame Game" So please don't think we are irrelevent and don't have an opinion which seems only for the young. This is descrimination of the highest order. The older generation actually started this club and made it a great club for you young whippersnappers to support. Things are not great at the moment but nothing lasts forever. Bad Post..

Yeah - I should not have applied it to all. But I definitely think the words should be many. We have lost a generation of kids - many will quote our lack of success. But other clubs have not suffered the same fate. In fact if it was all about success North should have bucket loads of supporters and Richmond none.

You just cant sell kids our message - but those are the long-term facts. If we dont change it soon we are going nowhere.

  On 09/04/2012 at 04:36, dee-luded said:

WYL, Norm IMO, wasn't the type to care of statues. That I think is the whole point, that it's not about Him, (or he would think, It's not about ME)...

It's about wanting to share & achieve things amongst those you love & respect. Your team mates hopefully. your Club. Not for bragging rights, but to know you became & gave your best, and proved 'We Can'.

Norm wore an old overcoat. Not an 'Look at Me' thing about him... It's about teaching people to be Honest & the best you can be. Thats the rush, IMO, for someone like Him. Thats the Giving, Thanks.

Yes, but Norm was sent packing from his beloved MCG & i think it would at least be a fine gesture to have him standing outside Gate 2 for evermore, so that all can admire his spirit & welcome him back home. Symbolic & Powerful.

  On 09/04/2012 at 04:42, Dr Who said:

Yeah - I should not have applied it to all. But I definitely think the words should be many. We have lost a generation of kids - many will quote our lack of success. But other clubs have not suffered the same fate. In fact if it was all about success North should have bucket loads of supporters and Richmond none.

You just cant sell kids our message - but those are the long-term facts. If we dont change it soon we are going nowhere.

I thought thats the idea of Casey, The MFC do heaps out here and the kids can relate to MFC players and there is a strong ground swells among the kids. It's a start. and you have to start somewhere

  On 09/04/2012 at 04:48, Bossdog said:

I thought thats the idea of Casey, The MFC do heaps out here and the kids can relate to MFC players and there is a strong ground swells among the kids. It's a start. and you have to start somewhere

Yes I agree it a start & yes we have to start somewhere - but why are we using the word "start" this club is over a 153 years young?

  On 09/04/2012 at 04:58, Dr Who said:

Yes I agree it a start & yes we have to start somewhere - but why are we using the word "start" this club is over a 153 years young?

Because we were born out of a ground not a suburb,we didn't have tribal loyalty to fall back on,we were a rich man's club and when it hit the fan supporters fell away. Used to live in Richmond many years ago and the whole street supported Richmond. We have never had that. But footy has changed and multi culture, and people don't have that same loyalty to a suburb in which they live, lots of people move and take that loyalty where ever they go

There's an endless amount of discussion here bemoaning the lack of spirit, or 'culture' at the club that motivates the players to put everything on the line. We slag them off, and the senior players particularly, for not showing the way, or standing up when the chips are down (and those chips are floating somewhere around the s-bend at the moment).

What I think should be remembered, is that these players are in their 20's, some of them only just that, and mostly come to the club having no emotional investment in it. All of us commenting on Demonland are unequivocally emotionally dedicated to the MFC, and I guess most of us have been for decades. This is a massive difference to the 20 year old ex Essendon supporter who finds himself at the MFC running out to play with a bunch of guys he hardly knows.

So what creates that desire to unify with a common emotional purpose, to do anything for the jumper, and your teammates, regardless of the talent?

Leadership! I has to come from one person essentially, a charismatic motivator and unifier. These are men for their time, and if you look back through the AFL premiership coaches, they are a singularly impressive bunch. Of course they are men for their time, such as Barass for the 70's, Hafey too, Matthews and Thompson for the 2000's, Paul Roos, Malthouse, and their influence may ebb, but they have a specific power for a specific period of time.

This is a TEAM game, and you'll get NEVER get away with talent alone. It helps a shedload, but it doesn't define what is essential to success. Conversely, remember that a lot can be acheived with a lack of talent.

We currently have an ordinary playing list, but if any of you think it is 18 goals worse than the Eagles, you are overrestimating how lists are created in modern football. Essentially there is a relatively even spread of talent through the competition, this HAS to be assumed as a result of the salary cap and democratised draft, and yes that includes supposedly poor recruiting.

Which brings me back to the essential element that it is simply too early to tell whether we now have or not.........the coach.

The club personnel and circumstances have been chopped and changed hugely in the past 6 months, and it is simply too early with Mark Neeld whether he has the 'Northey' factor or not.

As woeful and 'lost' as our current on-field disasters in the last 2 weeks have been, on reflection I simply cannot, and nor can any of you, know what the remainder of this season will bring. It is as possible as not that this low talent list could galvanise under Neeld's influence, and give us a team to be proud of by season's end. I'm not talking about premierships, just having a game day team to be proud of.

Pride...............beyond all the structure, planning, talent development, fitness and playing roles that is the province of the now huge staff at every AFL club, pride is the one thing that our team currently don't have enough of to make a difference on game day.

Neeld may deliver it, we just have no choice but to wait and see.

  On 09/04/2012 at 03:20, Hells Gates said:

Probably keeping Cameron Schwab on after we had sacked him. I dont fully know for sure but I still think there is some fishy business going on behind the scenes that we dont know about.

Time for a fresh change at the top. McLardy will be great I think but Schwab seems to not have the full support of the players.

Also did we ever hear about the outcome of that business report?? Not sure of the name of it now but I'd bet there are a few hidden answers in there as we surely can't be this bad, can we?

What the hell do the palyers have anything to do with supporting CS?? He is the CEO, they play. There has been way too much since early 2000's of a player culture that has way too much influenence. Thats why we havnt improved in the last 12 - 13yrs. That's what & why Garry went in there to clunk some heads together...... Btw - that business report would have been read by people like G Lyon over the summer. They knew what was going on & thats why the shake down happened.

  On 09/04/2012 at 05:22, Skipper3 said:

What the hell do the palyers have anything to do with supporting CS?? He is the CEO, they play. There has been way too much since early 2000's of a player culture that has way too much influenence. Thats why we havnt improved in the last 12 - 13yrs. That's what & why Garry went in there to clunk some heads together...... Btw - that business report would have been read by people like G Lyon over the summer. They knew what was going on & thats why the shake down happened.

Which rock have you been hiding under?? I will not continue on your first question as I cant say it on here.

Mates for Jobs kinda thing at MFC.

When are you going to do your Master 5??

  On 09/04/2012 at 05:34, Hells Gates said:

Which rock have you been hiding under?? I will not continue on your first question as I cant say it on here.

Mates for Jobs kinda thing at MFC.

When are you going to do your Master 5??

Well, I think my question is fair enough. Players play - they dont get to choose the CEO!

Master 5?? What are you talking about??

  On 09/04/2012 at 05:34, Hells Gates said:

Which rock have you been hiding under?? I will not continue on your first question as I cant say it on here.

Mates for Jobs kinda thing at MFC.

When are you going to do your Master 5??

Whats going on at the club now is akin to mutiny. Strange how mostly only a couple of players who were not here last season seem to be the only ones doing their job. In the old days mutiny ring leaders( read senior players) were executed and if that didn't work then higher ups (ministers=the board) were forced to identify the real root cause of the problem(Generals= bad leadership/CEO) and remove them.

Need a big free agent! Will be a big mistake if we dont....

Goddard? + small forward + Viney = Good start

OUT - Moloney, Green, Davey, Bate and dare I say it Jamar. IN - experienced seasoned players from other clubs with strong bodies.

Magner, Jones and Viney will be future engine room. Need to surround them with runners ( line breakers).

If we dont do any of these it will be a big mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  On 09/04/2012 at 06:33, jungle dee said:

Need a big free agent! Will be a big mistake if we dont....

Goddard? + small forward + Viney = Good start

OUT - Moloney, Green, Davey, Bate and dare I say it Jamar. IN - experienced seasoned players from other clubs with strong bodies.

Magner, Jones and Viney will be future engine room. Need to surround them with runners ( line breakers).

If we dont do any of these it will be a big mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Much merit in what you say....To me Free Agency is a huge concern to the lower clubs, BUT if the club has the balls to make very hard (ruthless) decisions this year then FA may become a great weapon to us...if we sit quietly & let it come to us then the same system will dilute us even further.

Don Mclardy...you began this ride with Jim...Keep the fire stoked..

  On 09/04/2012 at 05:09, Webber said:

This is a TEAM game, and you'll get NEVER get away with talent alone. It helps a shedload, but it doesn't define what is essential to success. Conversely, remember that a lot can be acheived with a lack of talent.

This is a brilliant point and goes to the very, very central key thinking behind "modern" football theories.

Modern day football is all about structures-game plans, flooding-zones, fitness-recovery its no longer a simplistic man against man game.

Big big mistakes --- just watching Hawks v Cats.

We have Morton. Hawks have Rioli. No brainer.

  On 09/04/2012 at 06:33, jungle dee said:

Need a big free agent! Will be a big mistake if we dont....

Goddard? + small forward + Viney = Good start

OUT - Moloney, Green, Davey, Bate and dare I say it Jamar. IN - experienced seasoned players from other clubs with strong bodies.

Magner, Jones and Viney will be future engine room. Need to surround them with runners ( line breakers).

If we dont do any of these it will be a big mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn sweet post Jungle. Would like to see beamer get a big shaking down by the coach and to be asked the question before we just caste him aside though. Still think there's some upside with the big fella.

But the Magner, Jones, Couch combo (with beamer rotating through too) just might be the roots we can build a gun team around, with Jay coming in for the icing from next year. And yep....a few (or even just one) classy outside line breakers and one small classy forward are desperately needed.

Time for Martin to take over the main ruck duties through the middle.

  On 09/04/2012 at 07:13, Dr Who said:

This is a brilliant point and goes to the very, very central key thinking behind "modern" football theories.

Modern day football is all about structures-game plans, flooding-zones, fitness-recovery its no longer a simplistic man against man game.

You're behind the times Doc. Everyone (who counts) now is into "post-modern" football

Get with it or perish

  On 09/04/2012 at 06:33, jungle dee said:

Need a big free agent! Will be a big mistake if we dont....

Goddard? + small forward + Viney = Good start

OUT - Moloney, Green, Davey, Bate and dare I say it Jamar. IN - experienced seasoned players from other clubs with strong bodies.

Magner, Jones and Viney will be future engine room. Need to surround them with runners ( line breakers).

If we dont do any of these it will be a big mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Definitely. We now need someone to do what Judd did for Carlton in 2008 and what Ablett is doing for the Gold Coast. They are champion players, but they are also great leaders. I would strongly consider using both compensation picks to land a top 20 midfielder.

I remember when players came to Melbourne, they would talk about being struck by the presence of players like Neitz and Robertson. McDonald was the last of that breed, we have no one with that aura anymore.

Neita was a good leader, Junior probably even better.

But they were alone with they're caliber.

  On 09/04/2012 at 08:06, wisedog said:

Definitely. We now need someone to do what Judd did for Carlton in 2008 and what Ablett is doing for the Gold Coast. They are champion players, but they are also great leaders. I would strongly consider using both compensation picks to land a top 20 midfielder.

I remember when players came to Melbourne, they would talk about being struck by the presence of players like Neitz and Robertson. McDonald was the last of that breed, we have no one with that aura anymore.

Problem is there's a chasm of a difference between the effect an Ablett or Judd has and that of a top 20 or 30 midfielder, which is all our bargaining power would probably afford.

And as good a players Neita, Robbo and Junior were, they were never in the game's top-tier elite.

Truth is we'll have to develop our own star/s or unearth them in the next draft.

Following the demons!

Needing to rely on Pick 20+'s from the National Draft, any Preseason Draft Picks and Rookie-listed players to be our "stars". In good teams, these types of players can play the odd cameo, and for average players they can be made to look quite good with decent, well developed first round draft picks.