Rhino Richards 1,467 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 We treated him badly on Saturday. In fact as an supporter I was embarrassed at how we treated him. We didn't. Its a reflection of his form and contribution to date this year. its been well below par. Did you feel the same when we sorrectly started Adem Yze off the bench as "Captain" in the 2005 EF?
rpfc 29,031 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 At Collingwood, Maxwell relinquishes the captaincy every year - he has to win it back. He wants it this way, as he doesn't want to have a situation where he doesn't have the backing of the club and the players. We should do the same.
old dee 24,084 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Yes yes we all went to public schools, have patches on our elbows and call out go on No 31! FMD, the last place I would ever measure the demographic is in regard to the mainly rancid wingnuts the clog football talkback with their stupidity. Success is just not created on expectations. Its built a number of important stepping stones. I telling GWS to publicly [censored] off is cheap fodder for commercial radio ratings but does not deal with the substantive issues. And for what its worth Eddie has done a fabulous job in the role of President of CFC. People often let his radio exposure colour the facts. So RR at the end of 2007 we were a basket case with a poor team, no coach, in fighting at administration level,low position on the ladder with poor results and a $5 million debt. At the end of 2011 4 years later we have a poor team, no coach, in fighting at administration level,low position on the ladder with poorer results but we have eliminated the debt. So on the basis on success by important stepping stone we have taken one step in 4 years. Can you give me some idea when we will make it to the second stone. I am fast running out of years, at this rate from my view we may get there long after I am gone from this agony. I have been a little flipant but IMO the journey is at snail pace.
Robbie57 2,042 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 It was a match committee decision. Throwing mud Lyon and Viney's way based on an assumption is low. Does that mean the coach has no say in who wears the vest or is he not on the match committee? If they were not involved in the decision I am happy to be corrected and apologise to them. More importantly if they are not consulted about it then something is seriously wrong at our club. Whoever made that decision in my view made a wrong decision. I understand they think he was underdone for the game but that doesn't change how it appeared to the world and the message it sent. Its not about "toughening up" or being in the 22, that completely misses my point about the treatment of our captain.
Rhino Richards 1,467 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 So RR at the end of 2007 we were a basket case with a poor team, no coach, in fighting at administration level,low position on the ladder with poor results and a $5 million debt. At the end of 2011 4 years later we have a poor team, no coach, in fighting at administration level,low position on the ladder with poorer results but we have eliminated the debt. So on the basis on success by important stepping stone we have taken one step in 4 years. Can you give me some idea when we will make it to the second stone. I am fast running out of years, at this rate from my view we may get there long after I am gone from this agony. I have been a little flipant but IMO the journey is at snail pace. I think you missed the train. If you cant identify the differences between 2007 and 2011 then no wonder you keep away from sharp objects. And if you are running of years all this negative stuff is not healthy for you. I know lets just expect to win... yes that will do... other clubs do it... Hmm. Is it working yet?
old dee 24,084 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I think you missed the train. If you cant identify the differences between 2007 and 2011 then no wonder you keep away from sharp objects. And if you are running of years all this negative stuff is not healthy for you. I know lets just expect to win... yes that will do... other clubs do it... Hmm. Is it working yet? please explain to this dumb old guy. What are the differences?
Rhino Richards 1,467 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 please explain to this dumb old guy. What are the differences? Why bother as you are so buried in the negative that I think you enjoy all this woe? Try a bit of self education. Go on scare yourself. Grab the 2007 list and grab the 2011 and have a look at the disposition of the players and team make up and see if you can see some differences. You wont be a dumb old guy for too long. Bitter and negative...well...
Deeoldfart 8,205 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 My gut feeling is that Greeny will ask to be relieved of the captaincy in 2012, so that he can concentrate solely on playing football in the twilight of his career. I would expect him to be offered (and to accept), a one or two year deal to take him through to retirement.
old dee 24,084 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Why bother as you are so buried in the negative that I think you enjoy all this woe? Try a bit of self education. Go on scare yourself. Grab the 2007 list and grab the 2011 and have a look at the disposition of the players and team make up and see if you can see some differences. You wont be a dumb old guy for too long. Bitter and negative...well... Oh so I am beneath your contempt RR. That is a great way to move forward. I am trying to self educate that is why I asked you for help. No suggestions? Ok I can only assume I am correct
H_T 3,049 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Does that mean the coach has no say in who wears the vest or is he not on the match committee? That's what Lyon stated last night. That it was a match committee decision. I understand they think he was underdone for the game but that doesn't change how it appeared to the world and the message it sent. Its not about "toughening up" or being in the 22, that completely misses my point about the treatment of our captain. No it doesn't. Let me ask you this. If Green had started on the bench without the vest, would we be having this discussion ?
Guest Gareth Keenan Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Not sure why anyone would seriously think the captaincy is included in contract negotiations. Green would sign a contract, then the leadership group and the captaincy would be set in preseason.
beelzebub 23,392 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 As a club we are way to nice. It starts at supporter level and goes all the way to the top. Essendon,Carlton, Hawthorn and Collingwood would be screaming the house down if they were in our position. The airwaves would be full of members demanding action. They expect success, demand it and in the end get it. We hope it all works out and give our club years and years to get it right. result we never do. when has one MFC person publically told GWS to [censored] off! Eddy does on our behalf how poor is that. yep..nutshell
beelzebub 23,392 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 My gut feeling is that Greeny will ask to be relieved of the captaincy in 2012, so that he can concentrate solely on playing football in the twilight of his career. I would expect him to be offered (and to accept), a one or two year deal to take him through to retirement. I share this sentiment. The club wil lhave no doubt learn t from the Junior fiasco..( that of how to handle things..not the projected outcome ) Brad still has much to offer and without being burdened by th ecaptaincy will I hope return to some free flowing form. His 'older' presence around the club for 1-2 years would be of great benefit also. But the nature of the contract will need scrutiny. Id agree with DOF..likely a 1and 1 offer. If Brads clever...he'll take it.
dee-luded 2,959 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I think the conversation will go along the lines of "Brad you're losing the captaincy and wont be guaranteed a starting 18 position in 2012 but we'd like you to stay at Melbourne". Brad then departs for another club. There won't be a spot for him at his recent standard after 2012 season. Howe and Cook will be coming through plus we have Jurrah, Sylvia, Petterd, and just maybe a young lawrence, not to mention a host of other players.
Flemo56 409 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Brad Green- may b a dam nice bloke, I've never met him,(he plays for the Dee's he must b nice.....lol) -has been a good player for us many times, generally when we win, (downhill skier maybe.......another one) -has been a terrible captain and leader, UNFORTUNATELY -has got woeful media skills -best position wing or hff nowhere else. -would prefer him to stay and finish with us as a player only Geez I hate being negative about the DEE's, but even the TUNNEL with light at the end, which I thought I saw last year, SEEM's to have gone. Maybe it's because of my DEEP DEE DEPRESSION..........lol
old dee 24,084 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Brad Green- may b a dam nice bloke, I've never met him,(he plays for the Dee's he must b nice.....lol) -has been a good player for us many times, generally when we win, (downhill skier maybe.......another one) -has been a terrible captain and leader, UNFORTUNATELY -has got woeful media skills -best position wing or hff nowhere else. -would prefer him to stay and finish with us as a player only Geez I hate being negative about the DEE's, but even the TUNNEL with light at the end, which I thought I saw last year, SEEM's to have gone. Maybe it's because of my DEEP DEE DEPRESSION..........lol Flemo56 you have a lot of mates on that bus Standing room only at present.
Striker475 696 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 He's going to stay. He's veterans list. Whether he's captain is another thing, but he'll definitely stay.
Robbie57 2,042 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 That's what Lyon stated last night. That it was a match committee decision. No it doesn't. Let me ask you this. If Green had started on the bench without the vest, would we be having this discussion ? So does that mean Viney wasn't involved? (or Lyon)? I like both Viney and Lyon and think they are trying to get us going in the right direction with some hard decisions. But seriously Viney must have been involved lets be men about this, he was at least part of the decision. No doubt he made it in good faith as did everyone else, I just think it was a poor one. We disagree about whether it was right or wrong which is fair enough. Starting in the 21 is different given the way the game is played these days. What I do want is the muddle at the club to stop and our players to step up.
old dee 24,084 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 He's going to stay. He's veterans list. Whether he's captain is another thing, but he'll definitely stay. If I were the saints/ carlton I would look at him. In 2010 form he would be just what they need. Would not cost them much in the way of draft etc. Not sure how much the Dees will offer but I doubt it will be close to this years salary. I would not begrudge him a chance at Glory. Like Wells and Alves they gave us great support and left at the end of their carrers for a shot at the big time. He deserves more than we can offer over the next couple of years.
Striker475 696 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 If I were the saints/ carlton I would look at him. In 2010 form he would be just what they need. Would not cost them much in the way of draft etc. Not sure how much the Dees will offer but I doubt it will be close to this years salary. I would not begrudge him a chance at Glory. Like Wells and Alves they gave us great support and left at the end of their carrers for a shot at the big time. He deserves more than we can offer over the next couple of years. But they have to pay double what MFC are paying him, literally.
Guest Gareth Keenan Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 But they have to pay double what MFC are paying him, literally. As a veteran? No, they just have to commit double the cap space. There's no magic wand that makes our money worth twice as much as theirs.
H_T 3,049 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 So does that mean Viney wasn't involved? (or Lyon)? Viney may have had input as caretaker coach. I like both Viney and Lyon and think they are trying to get us going in the right direction with some hard decisions. Right. Well then let them do what they think is best. And just maybe they want the same as you(here) by such action: What I do want is the muddle at the club to stop and our players to step up. We disagree about whether it was right or wrong which is fair enough. Starting in the 21 is different given the way the game is played these days. I agree that we disagree. You're of the simple opinion that the green vest should be off limits to the captain and if he wears it, in your opinion it's humiliating and an embarrassment. I'm of the opinion that I want the same as you - that we want "the muddle at the club to stop and our players to step up", the thing is in order to do this, what steps are you prepared to take ? I'll back those who are "trying to get us going in the right direction with some hard decisions" - oh wait a second..that's what you said. These decisions aren't made lightly...or made on a whim.
QueenC 74 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 fast forward to end 2011 early 2012 - he won't be relieved of the captaincy - he will relinquish it (behind closed doors pressure duly exerted) "I have found my form has suffered with the extra burden of the captaincy and with this bright brigade of well credentialled youngsters that ooze leadership, I have decided that is in the best interests of the club and getting myself back to my best form that I relinquish the captaincy and pass it onto .......(insert your favoured choice here). I am fully committed to this club and see our future blah blah ....." That sounds pretty accurate..... And if that helps us get Brad Green circa 2010 back on the field again, then fine by me.
waikikkamukau 62 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 There are a couple of reasons why i think this may be close to the mark. Green's last couple of contract discussions have been protracted by his management IIRC. Like Cam Bruce, the bag will be only half full, take it or leave it. BUT MFC doesnt give Captaincy or Coach for one year, right or wrong. MFC would be mauled by the press for not sticking fat with Green during this last year. Notwithstanding some journos need for a headline, they would turn pretty damn quick. I dont see a clear alternate at this stage, meself. I hope he can turn it around. I agree, I think a two year deal is on the cards, he will have one more year as captain, and the amount of his contract will not be an issue for him, however a chance for redeption and to prove himself next year under a new coach will drive him to one of the best years on his carrer.
rpfc 29,031 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 But they have to pay double what MFC are paying him, literally. Cam Bruce was on the VL when he left. He may go, I don't think he will, and I don't think he will be captain.
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