That was also my view on the development / recruiting issue. None have improved elsewhere.

Beamer and Ricky were the best two this year and they didn't play better with their new clubs.

It just reinforces my view that recruiting is the single most damning stuff up.

I did not include Beamer or Rivers because they left us so as a result I did not them as rejects.

I did not include Beamer or Rivers because they left us so as a result I did not them as rejects.

I understand that but was just assisting your argument that ii is recruiting and not development that is responsible for our failures.

Hmm.... be it on your head Red if they suddenly turn into......

The Banana splits! Whoa,that takes me back (and dates you BB59 and anyone else who recognises them ). Mind you, with a bit of their run and spread in the midfield, we couldn't have done much worse in the past couple of seasons (and at least it would have been funny )

The Banana splits! Whoa,that takes me back (and dates you BB59 and anyone else who recognises them ). Mind you, with a bit of their run and spread in the midfield, we couldn't have done much worse in the past couple of seasons (and at least it would have been funny )

Who are they R&B ?

Who are they R&B ?

Wacky cartoon show from the late 60's or early 70's. I can still hear the jingle in my head. Perhaps you were too old for cartoons when they were on, OD?

Tra-la-la, la-la-la-la, tra-la-la, la-la-la-la-lah .... .Tra-la-la etc.(ok, so they weren't renowned for their lyrics ... )

Edited September 10, 201311 yr by Red and Bluebeard

Wacky cartoon show from the late 60's or early 70's. I can still hear the jingle in my head. Perhaps you were too old for cartoons when they were on, OD?

Tra-la-la, la-la-la-la, tra-la-la, la-la-la-la-lah .... .Tra-la-la etc.(ok, so they weren't renowned for their lyrics ... )

I have a suspicion you missed my intent R&B

I was suggesting I was too young !!!

Now we have the other 17 clubs all writing to the AFL apparently urging it not to give us the PP. Surely not GC and GWS in that group, considering what we gave up to let them in the AFL.

So we have a rule, a body to decide and behind our backs the other clubs writing secretly to the AFL trying to influence them.

This is real dirty business.

Lets call for some extra tanking investigations and alterations to the fixture in a secret letter to the AFL.

I have a suspicion you missed my intent R&B

I was suggesting I was too young !!!

Sorry OD --- that completely went through to the keeper for me ... FWIW if you can find them on DVD, perhaps your grand-daughter may be interested.

Sorry OD --- that completely went through to the keeper for me ... FWIW if you can find them on DVD, perhaps your grand-daughter may be interested.

Probably on you tube R&B

I will let you know.

Looking like Watts will stay.

Looking like Watts will stay.

Unfortunately Redleg the MFC have made me a "Doubting Thomas"

I will believe it when I see it!

I have a suspicion you missed my intent R&B

I was suggesting I was too young !!!

lol...we know otherwise ...hehe

Looking like Watts will stay.

Apparently Neil Mitchell just tweeted he has heard he will stay. Hope we are both right.

I am just stunned beyond belief, that there are Dees fans on Demonland advocating we shouldn't get a PP.

I don't want to see the word " deserve" mentioned again. It has nothing to do with it.

They should use the word " need" instead.

Our last 7 years are worse than any club I can recall.

We need a PP.

I am just stunned beyond belief, that there are Dees fans on Demonland advocating we shouldn't get a PP.

I don't want to see the word " deserve" mentioned again. It has nothing to do with it.

They should use the word " need" instead.

Our last 7 years are worse than any club I can recall.

We need a PP.

Redleg the anti vote sites two things.

We have had numerous early picks and Extra picks and have managed by bad selection and inability to develop players we have turned them all to crap.

Not one "good" player is the result.

Add we are where we are through bad management and tanking

Why should all that be rewarded?

That argument has some merit.

I want an extra pick but I am not going to get overly disappointed if it does not happen.

It is time we got on with making every post a winner and stop looking for the easy way out.

All this anti pp is about the supposed deserts of a dying man presenting at emergency and then having some play god because a previous strnt and bypass failed. If you need help you need help. You assess whats in front of you.

That said I just enjoyed a yummy banana thickshake.

Redleg the anti vote sites two things.

We have had numerous early picks and Extra picks and have managed by bad selection and inability to develop players we have turned them all to crap.

Not one "good" player is the result.

Add we are where we are through bad management and tanking

Why should all that be rewarded?

That argument has some merit.

I want an extra pick but I am not going to get overly disappointed if it does not happen.

It is time we got on with making every post a winner and stop looking for the easy way out.

The argument has no real merit. Under your reasoning the only club which would ever 'deserve' a PP is one where half the players were killed in a airplane accident. (Even then someone would argue the club's at fault - they should have gone by bus.)

In all other cases, if you are crap, it is because you had some form of bad management. Therefore it would be argued they don't deserve a PP.

There is a whiff of the Victorian-era attitude about only helping what they saw as the deserving poor.

Edited September 11, 201311 yr by sue

Redleg the anti vote sites two things.

We have had numerous early picks and Extra picks and have managed by bad selection and inability to develop players we have turned them all to crap.

Not one "good" player is the result.

Add we are where we are through bad management and tanking

Why should all that be rewarded?

That argument has some merit.

I want an extra pick but I am not going to get overly disappointed if it does not happen.

It is time we got on with making every post a winner and stop looking for the easy way out.

errr, didn't we sack all those managers who were involved in drafting/development/tanking etc etc

no logical reason left why a new pp would be squandered as in the past

It is interesting to note.....

Melb has had 3 PP................2009.......Scully

2003.......Sylvia

1997.......T.Johnsone

Coll has had 2

2005...... Thomas

1999.......Fraser

Haw has had 2

2004.......Roughead

2005.......X. Ellis

Since this......Coll and Haw have been in the top eight and have both won Flags,whilst w have been in the bottom half of the ladder and very close to the bottom for the past 7 years........If we don't deserve one now we never will and the whole PP system should be scrapped.

Edited September 11, 201311 yr by Bossdog

Redleg the anti vote sites two things.

We have had numerous early picks and Extra picks and have managed by bad selection and inability to develop players we have turned them all to crap.

Not one "good" player is the result.

Add we are where we are through bad management and tanking

Why should all that be rewarded?

That argument has some merit.

I want an extra pick but I am not going to get overly disappointed if it does not happen.

It is time we got on with making every post a winner and stop looking for the easy way out.

I agree past drafting has been poor.

Why do you get PP's? Answer, because you are uncompetitive.

It is the fact that you are uncompetitve, not the reason for it, that is the reason for PP's.

If you penalized sides that were uncompetitive, because decisions made led to that, it would be a nonsense.

Nevertheless we are already penalized.

We don't get friday games. That means less exposure. That means less revenue. That means we are a less attractive club to play for. That means we find it harder to entice player trades. That is a penalty.

Interstate games and skilled stadium games, same thing, with added problems or losing more likely and less fans attend.

There are many more of these factors that stop us being a top team. It is no excuse to say the popular games get the TV, because that is about money and not fairness.

Therefore we are starting behind the eight ball every year and yet are just expected to be good.

If other clubs don't want us to get a PP then fine, lets all have the exact same chance to be successful.

I am sick of the biased crap coming from the mouths of the other club's leaders. It is pure garbage.

No PP's fine, then equal AFL in every way and put money last and fairness first.

Do you see that happening OD? Certainly not before hell freezes over.

PS. Get me on TV or Radio with some Club Presidents and I will destroy them over this.

Edited September 11, 201311 yr by Redleg

Guys I am playing the Devils Advocate ( no Pun intended ) here.

I am just relaying the way the "No" argument goes.

BB I am over the new name looks like the signature of a wimp.

I want the ballsy name back.

I agree past drafting has been poor.

Why do you get PP's? Answer, because you are uncompetitive.

It is the fact that you are uncompetitve, not the reason for it, that is the reason for PP's.

If you penalized sides that were uncompetitive, because decisions made led to that, it would be a nonsense.

Nevertheless we are already penalized.

We don't get friday games. That means less exposure. That means less revenue. That means we are a less attractive club to play for. That means we find it harder to entice player trades. That is a penalty.

Interstate games and skilled stadium games, same thing, with added problems or losing more likely and less fans attend.

There are many more of these factors that stop us being a top team. It is no excuse to say the popular games get the TV, because that is about money and not fairness.

Therefore we are starting behind the eight ball every year and yet are just expected to be good.

If other clubs don't want us to get a PP then fine, lets all have the exact same chance to be successful.

I am sick of the biased crap coming from the mouths of the other club's leaders. It is pure garbage.

No PP's fine, then equal AFL in every way and put money last and fairness first.

Do you see that happening OD? Certainly not before hell freezes over.

PS. Get me on TV or Radio with some Club Presidents and I will destroy them over this.

You have my backing, Redleg --- not that it will help you much ...

Guys I am playing the Devils Advocate ( no Pun intended ) here.

I am just relaying the way the "No" argument goes.

I get you, OD, but I think the crux of the argument is deserve vs. need. Perhaps we don't deserve one (how would you do that?), but we need one, and we have the AFL Commission to make judgements like this rather than the 17 other clubs. Put another way, if we don't get a PP now, nothing short of a terrorist attack on our training base will get us one.

I get you, OD, but I think the crux of the argument is deserve vs. need. Perhaps we don't deserve one (how would you do that?), but we need one, and we have the AFL Commission to make judgements like this rather than the 17 other clubs. Put another way, if we don't get a PP now, nothing short of a terrorist attack on our training base will get us one.

That might actually achieve what the recent management almost achieved.