Sack Bailey

[Guest lambtotheslaughter]

Sack the coach and who do you replace him with

This is a serious question as I believe ho should go but what happens for the next thirteen games?

[beelzebub 23,200]

This season is over.. We begin the next one now...Its all about how we do so.

[Crompton's the man 659]

I've never watched netball but I would guess I understand it better than you do the plight of the MFC at the moment.

We are the second youngest side in the AFL. Fact.

We are missing 8 - 11 of our 22. Fact.

Our list development is not at the stage that we can cope with losing 11 players. Fact.

You said you wanted us to play an attacking brand of footy last night. You mean like Essendon did? They were very exciting to watch. They would kick 16.... and their opponents 26. No-one got their hands dirty.

The players are clearly playing for the coach, contrary to your belief. They tried to execute a game plan, they competed, they lost.

Rabble is the word that emotional keyboard heroes use to deal with their bad childhoods.

Well Choko

I know that your post may appear to be well reasoned and not inflammatory and basically sensible and yet you must be prepared to recognise that this approach will be extremely unlikely to sate the blood lust of those you probably consider simplistic, reactionary and short-term thinkers.

You probably further think that what happened to Freo today lends credibility to your argument : take the gun ruckman out of the side and see what happens I can imagine you saying.

And then I can extrapolate and suppose your argument might run : what do you suppose might happen if we took eight or ten of the better players out of the Freo team and ran the remainder of the list against any of the in-form teams.

Well I think - why not roll the dice? - jump horses midstream and take the chance that whatever horse we might jump on ( whoever might be available at the time I say ) might be able to effect a change of mentality that will produce results against all apparent odds.

Now I can't really think of any rational basis to diagree with what you have written so I'm going to say I disagree and I'm prepared and I'm going to come right out of the closet and say I know it's irrational but the course of action many others have suggested ( it used to be called self-immolation but I prefer the term "changing coaches mid-season")

I may be writing this because I've been refusing to take my medicatio these past few days.

In short - I don't like sensible arguments : what else can I say?

Give me the crazy zany white-anters any day of the week : I'm with you all to the edge of the precipice - AND BEYOND !!!

Edited May 28, 2011 by QueenC

[Guest Thomo]

The same posters that had a million reasons why Bailey is the right man for the job are now using the injury excuse. I agree that Melbourne will struggle with their current injury list, but that's not the main issue, with an almost full list in the first few round of the season, the same problems existed, and it revolves around the way the team are playing.

Firstly, Melbourne do not work hard enough to defend in the forward half. Every other team does, but Melbourne do not. This is not due to player skills or years of development. Almost every time this year the opposition has scored a point, they move it out of there back half with ease. Football has changed, and Bailey has got no idea what is happening. Some argue that we are working on the next game plan to beat the current winning one. I would argue that it is like saying every other team no longer bombs it long to a pack, they kick to targets, and the interchange bench is now used for high rotations, these are now a fundamental parts of the game. I see high pressure tackling in the forward half the same. The next dominant plan is not going to involve less pressure from the forwards, it is now a part of football, like zones and rotations. Every other person in football can see this, why not Bailey?

The other big problem is clearing the ball from Melbourne’s defence. Last night when a point was kicked Frawley would walk over and retrieve the ball, then walk to the goal square with his back to play, turn around, pretend to look for a target in a stagnate midfield, kick to himself, run ten metres and kick to Jamar (even though he wasn't playing) 55 metres out on the right hand side, this would normally result in a throw in or a turnover.

There are several problems with this. Firstly, move quickly, get the ball moving before the opposition are set up. Secondly, do not turn your back to the game, it's hard to spot options facing the crowd. Thirdly, mix it up. Carlton often had more players where the kick out was directed, because everyone knew where it was going. Melbourne’s play was so predictable that Frawley almost ran into a Carlton player that had been positioned to stop the play on and kick that he kept doing. Due to Frawleys slow back the game predicable play, he didn't even see the player who was standing in his way. It would have been actually funny if I hadn't paid for my membership.

To continually use this same play, that was clearly not working, for Frawley to continue to slowly walk back when retrieving the ball, and for no other players creating options, and importantly the coach continuing to allow this to happen, can only mean that this is the instruction that they have been given.

These problems are not dependant on the age, size and experience of the players. 18 year old players can position themselves in the forward half, 18 year olds can mix up the kickins, 18 year olds don’t have to remain stagnate during a kickin. The coach seems to have instructed the players to play differently than every other side, and it has fundamental problems.

A few on here disagree, but the vast majority of people in football agree that the way Melbourne are going about the game is highly flawed, much like the criticism of Matthew Knights last year.

I'm sure is most of the football world can see this, players must be having the same feelings.

I suspect that after a week of embarrassment and pressure from the media and public the Players took it upon themselves to play their natural game against Adelaide, and worked hard in the forward fifty and moved quickly out of defence, providing movement and options through the middle.

Players have a relatively short career, and I'm not sure that they will want to put up with this current coach for much longer. Do you think they want to waste the rest of the season to wait for a review to say we need a new coach? Why wait, try someone else in the interim, and start the search for a new coach.

[Deeflated 0]

Another rubbish post.

Essendon had the exact opposite problem. They attacked and couldn't defend. Hird called it dishonest. That attacking game is what you and others are actually calling for.

Our arousal level, workrate and appetite for the contest were not the problem last night. We basically matched them in hard ball gets, clearances, contested bll and tackles. So get your facts right.

You're missing the point. Throwing numbers in our defensive 50 is not effective in today's football. We need to start defending in our FORWARD 50 and apply more pressure to force turnovers and in some cases goals. You've seen it before, its what everyone else does to us!

Why do we find it so hard to move the ball out of defence while the opposition stroll out of ours.

This is not an assessment based on last night. Our structures are wrong and have been all year.

[DemonOX 8,701]

The same posters that had a million reasons why Bailey is the right man for the job are now using the injury excuse. I agree that Melbourne will struggle with their current injury list, but that's not the main issue, with an almost full list in the first few round of the season, the same problems existed, and it revolves around the way the team are playing.

Players have a relatively short career, and I'm not sure that they will want to put up with this current coach for much longer. Do you think they want to waste the rest of the season to wait for a review to say we need a new coach? Why wait, try someone else in the interim, and start the search for a new coach.

Well said and I second that.

[Deeflated 0]

Firstly, Melbourne do not work hard enough to defend in the forward half. Every other team does, but Melbourne do not. This is not due to player skills or years of development. Almost every time this year the opposition has scored a point, they move it out of there back half with ease. Football has changed, and Bailey has got no idea what is happening. Some argue that we are working on the next game plan to beat the current winning one. I would argue that it is like saying every other team no longer bombs it long to a pack, they kick to targets, and the interchange bench is now used for high rotations, these are now a fundamental parts of the game. I see high pressure tackling in the forward half the same. The next dominant plan is not going to involve less pressure from the forwards, it is now a part of football, like zones and rotations. Every other person in football can see this, why not Bailey?

I 100% agree, it's the same question I've been asking myself since we got smashed by Essendon in the NAB Cup.

The 2 things Bailey supporters keep banging on about are 'we're young' and 'why should we copy them..'

How about because they're beating us?

[Guest Thomo]

I 100% agree, it's the same question I've been asking myself since we got smashed by Essendon in the NAB Cup.

The 2 things Bailey supporters keep banging on about are 'we're young' and 'why should we copy them..'

How about because they're beating us?

I'm glad you have not quote my whole post, could make it a long thread.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

They're beating us BECAUSE we are young, why is that so hard to hard understand?

And now, they are beating us because we are young AND injury-depleted.

[Guest Thomo]

They're beating us BECAUSE we are young, why is that so hard to hard understand?

And now, they are beating us because we are young AND injury-depleted.

Did you read my post, anything you disagree with?

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Jurrah needs to be dropped. He is utterly useless.

Maybe try waiting 24 hours or so after the game before posting.

[Deeflated 0]

They're beating us BECAUSE we are young, why is that so hard to hard understand?

And now, they are beating us because we are young AND injury-depleted.

We didn't have many injuries are the start of the year.

Last night is irrelevant. We were never going to win with the injuries we have.

What is relevant is the performance against Hawthorn, West Coast and North Melbourne. And I'm not talking about losing, it was HOW & WHY we lost.

I agree some were expecting way too much this year, I certainly wasn't expecting finals. But I was expecting a more contemporary brand of football. It won't get much better this year no matter who returns from injury.

[Choko 493]

hahaha... I love ur post Crompton's. Awesome.

[Choko 493]

You're missing the point. Throwing numbers in our defensive 50 is not effective in today's football. We need to start defending in our FORWARD 50 and apply more pressure to force turnovers and in some cases goals. You've seen it before, its what everyone else does to us!

Why do we find it so hard to move the ball out of defence while the opposition stroll out of ours.

This is not an assessment based on last night. Our structures are wrong and have been all year.

I agree to a large extent regarding the year. I haven't said otherwise. But people, including youm have been critical of last night. And last night in context was not so bad.

[Deeflated 0]

I agree to a large extent regarding the year. I haven't said otherwise. But people, including youm have been critical of last night. And last night in context was not so bad.

I don't remember being critical of last nights performance. Feel free to post my comments and prove me wrong.

[mrtwister 652]

Can noone think of a proven coach that is able to take young players and turn them into quality Finals teams? I'm sure I know someone who's done this before with great success.

Can someone please jog my memory?

[Choko 493]

I don't remember being critical of last nights performance. Feel free to post my comments and prove me wrong.

Sorry if not u. Most.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Did you read my post, anything you disagree with?

Didn't actually read it (a long winded post about the same old crap arguments doesn't hold much interest for me, but I'll have a read just for you).

I was replying to "Deeflated".

[Guest Thomo]

Didn't actually read it (a long winded post about the same old crap arguments doesn't hold much interest for me, but I'll have a read just for you).

I was replying to "Deeflated".

IF you didn't read it how do you know it's the same old crap? As you run out of reasonable arguments for your love for Bailey, the quality of your posts disintegrate. Give up.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

IF you didn't read it how do you know it's the same old crap? As you run out of reasonable arguments for your love for Bailey, the quality of your posts disintegrate. Give up.

Bailey's his dad.

[biggestred 4,820]

3 of our best backline out

4 of our best midfield out

Jurrah is clearly injured.

What the hell did you expect?

what i got - with better umpiring.

Ah Benno, I find it very difficult to judge him when all he's got are spuds, and those spuds clearly aren't playing to the game plan (unless that game plan is to constantly kick to a 4 on 1, which if so definitely sack him!).

completely agree

see u next tuesday

thats not very nice.

anyone on these boards watch south park?

[drdrake 3,124]

The major concern is we still have the same issues that we had 3 years ago. We can't stop teams scoring against us, we don't go inside our 50m arc enough, we have a big gap between our good and bad footy. All we have heard for the past two years is we have talent but for some reason that talent hasn't been able to get on the park together or show the ability they had when they were drafted.

Our issues are bigger than just sack the coach, we have a soft culture at our club and it has been there for some time. We can't keep players fit, we take the last 4 drafts and the talented players we should have Morton, Grimes, Maric, Strauss, Blease, Taspcott, Gysberts, Scully have had long periods injured. You add Watts and Trengove to that list, these are the guys we hear that we need to play more games and more games together and this week hopefully we can see this, with only 2 not available with injury.

Last year our defense looks great, we lose Wellman back to Essendon, a club with no defense that with Wellman they now have a strong defense. We replace him with Brian Royal, we look dis-organised and confused back there. Royal has a very bad choice for the club. Our forward line has never looked organised, the push to far up the ground and we never have a player front and square. Our midfield on paper looks good but we still can't transit from the back line to forward, this is Mark Williams domian. West has done OK with our stoppage work. If you look at Essendon, West Coast and Carlton they went after good assistant coaches a mixture of experience and players just out of the game. We need to clean out our assistant coaches, Scott West stays and gets the full midfield role but the other three need to go.

Bailey is the coach and he is the front for the coaching department but Chris Connelly needs to step up and lead, make a tough assessment on the people he manages, the medico's, Conditioning staff, assistant coaches and the head coach.

I would rather go down playing good hard positive footy then go out like we did on Friday night. We had a full defensive mind set, the coaches gave our players no chance to play well from the start. Please start to back your players don't drop a loose man behind the footy from the first bounce, everytime we have done this we get smashed. A game like Friday night we should of challenged our players to go one on one, lest see who can play go hard contested one on one footy.

Edited May 28, 2011 by drdrake

[Guest Artie Bucco]

IF you didn't read it how do you know it's the same old crap? As you run out of reasonable arguments for your love for Bailey, the quality of your posts disintegrate. Give up.

I admitted I didn't read it, so I thought it would be obvious I just made an assumption.

You sorta have to do that - you can't read something to decide whether to read it or not.

I didn't say it was full of the same arguments, just that I assumed it was.

Hence I replied to another poster and not you.

I haven't run out of reasonable arguments - I just grow tired of having to point out to posters why they are wrong.

I just wish they could figure it out for themselves.

It's a bloody full time job, and even then a lot of them are too stupid to understand.

And I don't love Bailey - I take an even measured approach to judging him, I don't let emotion get in the way, and I get tired of narrow-minded posters that don't do the same.

Have fun, ride the rollercoaster, take pride in telling everyone you were right all along when he eventually does get the axe (as all coaches eventually do).

I won't.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

what i got - with better umpiring.

completely agree

thats not very nice.

anyone on these boards watch south park?

In regards to "Pates" raising the issue of spuds not correctly following the gameplan, do you think maybe that's reflective of the disadvantage of not having our own VFL team (as opposed to an affiliate)?

In that, we can't make the VFL team follow the seniors gameplan as a carbon copy, so players enter the senior team well-versed in what is expected of them?

And we can also more accurately assess their ability to perform at the next level?

I have watched south park at times.

Rabble rabble.

The OP went over a lot of beads though, I think.

[rpfc 28,052]

what i got - with better umpiring.

completely agree

thats not very nice.

anyone on these boards watch south park?

I know you wanted to be ironical and all, but you just opened up an inevitable channel (a thread) for this.

Didn't really matter what the OP contained...

Edited May 28, 2011 by rpfc