Best 18

[Nasher 33,129]

Sorry guys - I know I've missed the deadline by some days, but I'm not going to get an opportunity to write anything up. My current schedule only allows for very short visits; nowhere near enough to do this thread justice, especially after seeing the great contributions of the Bob brothers and t_u. If anyone wants to judge in my place then I'd be willing/grateful.

Sorry again for making a commitment and failing to deliver.

[H_T 2,941]

Sorry kids, poor effort on my part I know. However it is the silly season and I have been working monster hours. Would still like to thro in a consideration after NY if that's acceptable

If you could MrReims, that would be appreciated.

Sorry guys - I know I've missed the deadline by some days, but I'm not going to get an opportunity to write anything up. My current schedule only allows for very short visits; nowhere near enough to do this thread justice, especially after seeing the great contributions of the Bob brothers and t_u. If anyone wants to judge in my place then I'd be willing/grateful.

Sorry again for making a commitment and failing to deliver.

Thanks for the response and apology Nasher.

Any volunteers to step in for Nasher ?

Like I posted earlier. If we could get it done by Saturday 8th Jan (new deadline). All is needed is as in old55's guidlines as I quoted just a couple of posts ago. 5-4-3-2-1 votes and summary/reasoning/explanation of each 'entrants' side put together by the draft - Best 18 based on the criteria of winning the 2011 Flag.

edit: Looks as though we may have 45HG16 to judge in place of Nasher. Awaiting confirmation.

Edited January 4, 2011 by High Tower

[45HG 1,539]

Hey guys,

I'd be happy to judge if everyone's cool with that.

The way I'd probably do it would be to give each player a score out of 10, then each section of the ground (backs, mids, forwards) a score out of 30 and then an overall "vibe" score out of 30. That would leave each team getting a score out of 300 with some reasoning.

Does that sound cool?

[H_T 2,941]

Does that sound cool?

Thanks 45HG16 for assisting in Nasher's absence. That seems reasonable enough to me (cool enough ) and I take it that system would form a good basis of judging for you to cast your 5-4-3-2-1 votes.

Leave it to you.

[MrReims 305]

the COMP

E25; B

B: Ryder, Morris, Toy

HB: Gram, B. Reid, Hartlett

C: Palmer, Goodes, Van Berlo

HF: Sylvia, Kennedy, S. Johnson

F: Cunnington, Clark, Rioli

R: Kreuzer, Pendlebury, Martin

Solid team. Diversity, youth, flexibility and some old fashioned brute strength. I would have preferred Kreuzer and Clark the other way around but that comes down to week to week match ups i realize. 'PalmerGate' has been well publicized, so I'll leave it alone. Defense has a question mark over it and the forward line is creative, but any team with Kreuzer, Goodes, Ryder and Clark is going to cause problems I think. Would have been AMAZING to include Pavlich at CHF.

Ox_5; B+

B: J.Gibson (Haw), C.Tarrant (Coll), S.Thompson (Nth)

HB: J.Winderlich (Ess), H.Taylor (Gee), C.Enright (Gee)

C: S.Black (Bris), D.Kerr (WC), D.Pearce (Port)

HF: S.Higgins (WB), N.Riewoldt (Stk), J.Porplyzia (Adel)

F: L.Jurrah (Melb), J.Riewoldt (Rich), L.Jetta (Syd)

R: R.Warnock (Carl), M.Barlow (Freo), M.Rischitelli (GC)

Great team. The obvious x-question is how well do the veterans in Black and Kerr perform this year. If the answer is 75% capacity or more, then here is your premiership team. Solid defense lacking a little pace, more than competitive midfield and a forward line worth drooling over.

eth38; C

B: Harbrow Garland Rawlings

HB: Drummond Pears Gilbee

C: Foley Hodge Simpson

HF: Gray Cloke Fyfe

F: Byrnes Walker Milne

R: Mumford Hayes Priddis

Not a fan. Backline appears soft, midfield heavily reliant on Hodge for some creativity and almost all the frustatingly inconsistent forwards of the comp together. Pass.

the master; C

FB: J. Surjan (Port) N. Grima (NM) S. Hurn (WCE)

HB: J. Kelly (Geel) L. McPharlin (Fre) J. Adcock (Bris)

C: D. Thomas (Coll) S. Thompson (Adel) S. Hill (Fre)

HF: M. Morton (Rich) L. Henderson (Carl) D. Swallow (GC)

FF: A. Monfries (Ess) L. Franklin (Haw) A. Schneider (StK)

R: M. Jamar (Melb) J.P. Kennedy (Syd) R. Griffen (WB)

Midfield would compete but be beaten by a lot of the top 5. Forward line is the biggest worry. Morton, Monfries, Schneider al together? Good grief! Backline could possibly sell a lot of end of year calenders as they are all the brute boys with the exception of McPharlin perhaps who is very close to past it in my opinion.

Range Rover; C+

B: B.Waters (WC) B.Lake (WB) J.Brennan (GC)

HB: A.Davey (Melb) B.Goddard (StK) D.Jackson (Rich)

C: S.Salopek (Port) M.Murphy (Carl) G.Ibbotson (Fre)

HF: J.Lewis (Haw) S.Gumbleton (Ess) C.Knights (Adel)

F: B.Green (Melb) B.Fevola (Bris) L.Thomas (Nth)

R: D.Jolly (Coll) J.Bartel (Geel) D.Hannebery (Syd)

A good to great group of players, average team. Backline is full of class, but absolutely no height! A quality resting ruckman or tall forward would crucify this high rebounding team. Only one real 'defender'. Midfield has its charms but the forwardline also has huge holes. Lest pretend Fev will actually play this year, he was still in less than inspiring form last year, Gumby is a massive risk, Knights hasn't played in a year, Lewis has peaked and Thomas is incosistent. Greeny would have to kick 65+ (sh!t I hope so!) this year to even make the finals.

Deestroy All; C+

B: S.Selwood(WCE) D.Merrett(Bris) C.Brown(GC)

HB: B.Deledio(Rich) M.Scarlett(Geel) N.Malceski(Syd)

C: N.Dal Santo(St.K) T.Boak(Port) C.Bateman(Haw)

HF: D.Motlop(Port) L.Hansen(North) R.Petterd(Melb)

F: H.Ballantyne(Freo) B.Hall(WB) C.Dawes(Coll)

R: D.Hille(Ess) *C.Judd(Carl) B.Vince(Adel)

Aging backline but no questioning the class. Hille is a concern in the midfield and without a second ruck of worth here is your first big problem. Mid runners are decent if not aging. Forward line is decent but possibly too old fashioned and limited x-factor. Meh.

Trengove; B

B: Nick Maxwell (Coll) Darren Glass (WCE) Cale Hooker (Ess)

HB: Grant Birchall (Haw) Kelvin Moore (Rich) Jack Grimes [VC](Melb)

C: Domenic Cassisi (Port) Jarred McVeigh (Syd) Leigh Montagna (StK)

HF: Brent Harvey (Nth) Jonathan Brown[C] (Bris) Travis Varcoe (Gee)

F: Liam Patrick (GC) Kurt Tippett (Adel) Jeff Garlett (Carl)

R: Aaron Sandilands (Freo) Matthew Boyd (WB) Brad Sewell (Haw)

What i really like about this team is it is full to the brim with out of the mould players. Moore, Maxwell, Harvey, Garlett, Patrick, Tippet all play/play in positions where their body shapes break the norm. I like that. Browny will be the big question mark. If he has a year like he's capable of, this could be one hell of a team. Grunt through the midfield, pace in the HF/HB lines, the best ruck by a mile (sorry Russian) and a good all round balance. Well done.

Roger Mellie; B+

B: C Newman (Rich) T Chaplin (Port) J Rivers (Melb)

HB D Rich (Bris) S Fisher(St Kilda) N Krakoeur (GC)

C R Douglas (Adel) K Jack (Syd) J Melksham (Ess)

HF A Didak (Coll) J Roughead (Haw) R Murphy (WB)

F M Le Cras (WCE) J Podsiadly# (Geel) E Betts (Carl)

R T Goldstein (North( J Selwood *(Geel) D Mundy (Free)

Talk about fire power in every shape and form. A forward 6 where each and every one is more than capable of kicking 6+ individualy? All right! One of the best young rucks also scored well with me, solid if not a little workman like midfield with a huge question mark over Melksham IMHO. Defense cost this team the premiership, although it has its charms. Rich's boot of the HBF to name just one....

Deez Nutz; C

B: A. Rance (Rich), J. Waite (Carl), M. Hurley (Ess)

HB: G. Broughton (Frem), S. Gilbert (SK), J. Sherman (WB)

C: D. Wells (NM), S. Mitchell (Haw), R. Tambling (Adel)

HF: P. Chapman (Geel), B. Staker (Bris), R. O'Keefe (Syd)

F: A. Wonaeamirri (Melb), G. Ablett (GC), C. Hitchcock (PA)

R: N. Naitanui (WC), D. Swan (Coll), D. Cross (WB

Ablett at FF, the inclusions of Staker, Waite, Tambling and Rance to critical positions crippled this team from the first look. NicNat also has major issues. How you lost your way i'm not sure, but you had Ablett, Swann, Chapman, Mitchell. Then it all came crumbling down.....

High Tower; B

Backs: J.Frawley (Melb) A.Carlile (Port) J.Gwilt (St.K)

H-Backs: B.Gibbs (Carl) N.Bock (G Coast) A.Mackie (Geel)

Centres: *T.Scully (Melb) J.Watson (Ess) T.Cotchin (Rich)

H-Fwds: S.Burgoyne (Haw) **M.Pavlich (Frem)S.Sidebottom (Coll)

Fwds: T.Banfield (Bris) J.White (Sydney) P.Dangerfield (Adel)

Foll: D.Cox (WCE) A.Cooney (W B'dogs) A.Swallow (Nth Melb)

High class backline with all the trimmings. Inexperienced but quality midfield with a mix of inside/outside strength. Cox has one more B+ grade season in him. Forward line not optimal but with the Pav for starters and another of my favs in Dangerfield. Just wouldn't get the score on the board to topple the top teams in finals.

So;

5. High Tower

3. Trengove

3. e25

2. Roger Mellie

and the Winner is........

1. Ox_5

Well done to all involved, really enjoyed reading the thread and would have loved to have been a part of it.

Cheers and Beers,

Luke

Edited January 5, 2011 by MrReims

[ox_5 163]

Thanks for all your analysis mate.

Is your 5 to 1 in which order? e25 best, or my team best? Need to know for bragging rights, basically. From reading it I would say I got the nod, which surprises a little.

Edited January 5, 2011 by ox_5

[H_T 2,941]

Thanks for all your analysis mate.

Is your 5 to 1 in which order? e25 best, or my team best? Need to know for bragging rights, basically. From reading it I would say I got the nod, which surprises a little.

I'd say you got it ox_5 based on you and Roger getting B+'s and the rest of us (e25, Trengove, myself) getting B's.

Thanks MrReims for your analysis and votes.

[MrReims 305]

Thanks for all your analysis mate.

Is your 5 to 1 in which order? e25 best, or my team best? Need to know for bragging rights, basically. From reading it I would say I got the nod, which surprises a little.

edited for effect.

[H_T 2,941]

edited for effect.

You might want to also edit who got 3rd and 4th as there are 2 3's. Or better still sort out 3rd, 4th & 5th.

[MrReims 305]

You might want to also edit who got 3rd and 4th as there are 2 3's. Or better still sort out 3rd, 4th & 5th.

Sorry, thought it was obvious that they are tied for third. That's how it is commonly written.....

[H_T 2,941]

Sorry, thought it was obvious that they are tied for third. That's how it is commonly written.....

Ahh ok, no problem. We'll leave it to old55 to decipher on his return then.

[45HG 1,539]

3 of you people have been judged! (Cue scary music)

This is taking me ages! Tough process and I'm thinking my judging will end up being the things judged - but that's fair enough it could just add to the fun!

[Whispering_Jack 28,010]

Poor effort to say you'd do it and then not have the courtesy to post particularly given the effort put in by everyone concerned.

I'd suggest that those judges that haven't put in their votes say if they are going to do it or not and if they don't want to then a couple of others could volunteer.

What do you think?

I think it's pretty slack on the part of the judges you're referring to. Off with their heads, I say!!!

Oops. I think I'm one of them (thanks High Tower for the reminder).

Apologies. Guilty as charged. I've been in holiday mode and plumb forgot.

I'm in transit back to the big smoke for the next 24 hours but will get onto it as soon as I'm back.

In the meantime, perhaps the delay will heighten the suspense.

Sorry,

WJ

[biggestred 4,337]

i thought the whole point of this was to vote at the END of the season?

[H_T 2,941]

i thought the whole point of this was to vote at the END of the season?

No I think you have your wires crossed. You might want to read the last couple of pages. As DA suggested (which you may have read) he will keep some sort of Supercoach points score for each team throughout 2011 with Ladder or an END of season tally to determine which best 18 side is better during H&A season.

For now old55 (thread creator) has established ~6 judges to rate each of the sides and their thoughts based on each side using the criteria of winning the 2011 flag.

[45HG 1,539]

Firstly, I'd just like to say that I enjoyed judging the different teams. I think it opened my eyes about a number of players after doing research etc.

I decided that to judge, I may as well leave myself open to criticism about certain decisions (as with all judging) so I've judged each player, team and area of the ground separately. Many may disagree with my decisions, and some may be wrong. But I think overall it should have evened out.

I think perhaps I was too lenient with my ratings, but they generally are pretty fair I think. Whilst I'm aware I have probably made some howlers, I think anyone would understand the difficulty of comparing so many different types of players that bring many different things to their teams - also perhaps appreciate putting yourself out there!

It's fair to say I wrote an essay. So here goes:

[45HG 1,539]

Range Rover’s Team

B: B.Waters (7) B.Lake (8) G.Ibbotson (7)

HB: S.Salopek (7) **B.Goddard (9.5) D.Jackson (6.5)

C: * A.Davey (7.5) J.Bartel (6.5) D.Hannebery (7.5)

HF: C.Knights (6.5) S.Gumbleton (5.5) B.Green (8)

F: J.Brennan (6.5) B.Fevola (7) L.Thomas (6.5)

R: D.Jolly (7.5) J.Lewis (6.5) M.Murphy (7)

Vibe Score: 21/30 Total Player Score: 128.5/180 Total Score: 213.5/300

Backs: Obviously a vitally important part of the team, I think you’ve got a decent backline. The only question mark over your backline is height, you’ve got Lake who can play on the bigger types and possibly Goddard. Jackson is an honest tryer who will unspectacularly do a job, Salopek is classy and should be coming into his prime. Beau Waters is tough but I have question marks over his ability. Brian Lake is obviously quality, and even showed that he could go forward and kick goals if needed (unfortunately). The gem of your backline, indeed of your team, is Brendon Goddard. Throughout the year I’ve come to think of him as the perfect footballer, quite tall, very quick, strong, great disposal, can play middle, back, forward probably even ruck. I think there’s quality in your backline, but a few holes which could be tough to cover. 22/30

Mids: I must say that I really like your midfield, it’s probably the strength of your team. The 2010 Premiership-winning ruckman, a couple of tough bodies and some speed and class. Davey is perfecting his role and I think will step up again next year, Hannebery will be an out and out superstar IMO. I don’t think Bartel is the player he once was, and this will be shown up moreso with the loss of Ablett IMO. However he’s still a good in and under player who would get the footy to the other guys regularly. Not so sure about Jordan Lewis, but he’s a player who generally gets the job done. Altogether I think you’ve got three very skilful players, two big bodies in there and the Premiership ruckman who played a massive role in his team’s success. 24/30

Forwards: When at its best, I could see this forward-line being very damaging. However, a similar theme came to mind when looking at most of the players. I just don’t regard many of them as being consistent players. Knights, Thomas and Brennan are all great talents, but for too long and too often in matches go missing. Brennan and Knights also have the added benefit of going through the middle, however even then I don’t think they get enough footy for long enough periods. Fevola is mercurial at best and repugnant at worst, obviously a quality forward but tough to see him having a dynamite year for a variety of reasons. Gumbleton could be something, but he’s as likely to not be there at the end of the season having only played 22 games in 4 seasons (obviously injuries have taken their toll. Brad Green, as I’ve often said, I rate as an A-grade footballer and he’s a very good pick. However, altogether I just don’t see this forwardline being consistent enough. 19/30.

High Tower’s Team

Backs: J.Frawley (8) A.Carlile (6.5) J.Gwilt (6.5)

H-Backs: B.Gibbs (7.5) N.Bock (7) A.Mackie (7)

Centres: *T.Scully (7) J.Watson (7) T.Cotchin (6.5)

H-Fwds: S.Burgoyne (7.5) **M.Pavlich (8) S.Sidebottom (7)

Fwds: T.Banfield (6) J.White (7) P.Dangerfield (7.5)

Foll: D.Cox (7) A.Cooney (7.5) A.Swallow (7.5)

Vibe Score: 23/30 Total Player Score: 128/180 Total Score: 217/300

Backs: Looking across your team, I don’t see a lot of weaknesses. Any that I do see, I feel can be covered by those around. As it is with your backline, I see a couple of players who I don’t particularly rate but I also see a very versatile set of players that I think would work well together. Frawley is obviously a gun who, scarily enough, still has room for improvement. Gibbs is a serious talent. Gwilt and Carlile I don’t particularly rate and I’d argue they’re the weaknesses in your backline, but at the same time I think Gwilt is a decent gap filler and Carlile should be improving each year. Mackie is an interesting one, because he doesn’t play how he looks (soft!), so I never used to rate him however over time I appreciate how he handles opponents, goes hard at the pill and gets enough of the ball in an attacking fashion. Overall, I feel your defence would be quite capable of shutting down opposition forwardlines whilst it also contains a bit of run and class to springboard. 22/30

Mids: Similarly with your mids, there aren’t any names that particularly scream at me but altogether I see quite a damaging unit. Cotchin and Scully are obviously quite young, but are skilful and talented enough to be helpful if surrounded by good mids. Watson is probably the best Essendon mid, however I see that as more of a reflection on Essendon than on Jobe himself. Rightly or wrongly, I see him much the same as Brock Mclean. Cox, as you’ve been at pains to point out, is still a high quality ruckman. But with Naitanui improving and Cox aging, I don’t think he’ll carry the same amount of impact as previous years. Swallow is a gun, he’s a damaging and classy player and together with Cooney and Watson in the middle, with Cox putting it down their throat, I think it’s a very damaging centre. 24/30

Forwards: There’s something about your forwardline I don’t like, and I’m not particularly sure what. Maybe because they’re a bit midgetish (Danger, Rednut, and S.S.) but again at the same time Dangerfield is a gun, Burgoyne is more of a midfielder which may hurt your forwardline but overall definitely helps your team. If Pavlich was Victorian he’d be regarded as one of the top few players of the last decade, and he’s still not even 30! Jesse White could continue to improve but I could also see him stalling, he’s an iffy one who I’d probably sit Sidebottom alongside with. Banfield is a handy goalsneak who will need to add more strings to his bow IMO. 20/30

E25’S team

B: P. Ryder (7) / D. Morris (7.5) / J. Toy (5)

HB: J. Gram (7) / B. Reid (7) / H. Hartlett (6)

C: R. Palmer (7) / A. Goodes (7.5) / N. Van Berlo (7.5)

HF: C. Sylvia (7.5) / J. Kennedy (6.5) / S. Johnson (7.5)

F: B. Cunnington (6) / M. Clark (7) / C. Rioli (7.5)

R: M. Kreuzer (7.5) / S. Pendlebury (7.5) / D. Martin (7)

Vibe Score: 21/30 Total Player Score: 125.5/180 Total Score: 207.5/300

Backs: E (or is that e?), you’ve got a very, very interesting team that I initially gave 19 for vibe, but then upped it. It’s probably more a team designed to win the 2015 Premiership, but at the same time I think it’s an exciting team that could be hard to stop when it gets on a roll. Unfortunately, it sort of reminds me of Carlton two-three years ago, would be exciting to watch but heavily scored against. I found a few of your guys very hard to rate, but obviously the aim of judging is to make judgements, so judge I did! Toy I haven’t seen much of but have heard very good things. It’s very hard, however, to rate him very highly as he’s obviously a first year player. Dale Morris is a gun, who along with the big-bodied Reid could halt some of the best forwards. Ryder’s presence in the back pocket worries me, though it does help your team overall. I don’t think Gram was as damaging this year, but I think he’s good enough and young enough to get back to his best. Hamish Hartlett is another youngster in your team who could be good, but needs to get his body right and get more games into his career. Overall, it’s a defence that may be able to find match-ups for most opposition forwards, but I don’t think it will do it well enough to be a feared backline. 17/20

Mids: There is some absolutely fantastic talent in your midfield. I love it, and I think you should benefit for also have Ryder and Clark as back-ups for rucking duties (not to mention Sylvia!) not to mention guys like Sylvia, Hartlett, Cunnington and Rioli who can go through the middle. Kreuzer is a freak, the kid could be anything and should only improve next year. Pendlebury is a quality ball winner who always seems to step up in the big games. Martin should be a quality player, tough ball-winner who uses it pretty well from what I’ve seen. Goodes is Goodes, you don’t win multiple Brownlows without being a great player and, although he’s aged a bit, we saw against us that he can still turn it on. Palmer is sort of the forgotten youngster, but thinking back to his debut year it was something else, if he can get back to full fitness he should have a great 2011. Likewise, van Berlo should be in for a solid 2011. He and Vince are just so damaging. There’s still just too much of a “youth factor” to regard them as being consistent enough. 24/30

Forwards: I think your forwardline suffers a bit because there’s a couple of guys that should be played elsewhere. Cunnington only kicked one goal this year, Clark 9. Rioli and Johnson are great little forwards and I thought Sylvia would explode this year and should really only get better this year (which is a worry for the opposition!). If Clark and Kreuzer were swapped I think it’d be a better forwardline. As it is, it’s pretty tough to match up on but with Clark, Kennedy and Cunnington there probably isn’t enough class there. 20/30

Eth38’s team

B: J.Harbrow (7), C.Garland (7), B.Rawlings (7)

HB: J.Drummond (7.5), T.Pears (7), L.Gilbee (7.5)

C: N.Foley (7), L.Hodge (8.5), K.Simpson (6.5)

HF: R.Gray (6.5), T.Cloke (6), N.Fyfe (7)

F: S.Byrnes (6.5), T.Walker (6.5), S.Milne (7)

R: S.Mumford (6.5), L.Hayes (8), M.Priddis (7)

Vibe Score: 22/30 Total Player Score: 126/180 Total Score: 209/300

Backs: Your team immediately excited me upon looking it at...until I got to your forwardline (but we’ll get to that later). It’s a very solid, if not a bit small, backline. A few of your players were boarderline being rated higher – Garland is a quality KPD who, if he has another solid year, could be considered one of the better backs in the league. Pears is much in the same boat, I struggled to rate them higher based solely on what they’ve shown, but from what they promise I could envisage rating both an 8 this time next year. Harbrow, Gilbee and Drummond are all quality running defenders, with Rawlings a high-quality stopper. My concern is half on the height of the backline and half on their ability to stop their opponents, each are quite aggressive and may struggle to contain 3 opposition forwards. Good quality players all round though. 22/30

Mids: Your midfield is an interesting one. On their own, I rate them as being 4 honest tryers and 2 superstars. Together, though, I think they would work quite well. Hayes and Hodge are obviously the best players in your team, and could probably win several matches on their own. I honestly don’t know a great deal about Foley, but he seems to get enough footy and tries hard. Likewise Simpson, though he seems to just float around gathering touches, I don’t see him as being overly damaging. Priddis, on the other hand, puts in 100% effort all day and can actually hurt teams on the scoreboard. Mumford would be able to get enough footy down to these players and they’d probably be able to do enough with it. A concern I do have is over the speed of this 6. 22/30

Forwards: Here’s where your team falls down IMO. Gray, Byrnes and Milne (#$%#$%) play very similar roles, and only one of them play that role very well in my view (although I do admit that Byrnes got better this year). Taylor Walker has a lot of natural ability and if he gets his head straight could be one of the most damaging forwards in the game. As it is, however, I think he is far too hot and cold. Cloke is a big fat, overrated, waste of space but I love Fyfe and think he’ll have a great year. Overall, however, too many players playing the same role, too up and down in form and not enough quality. 17/20

Destroy All’s Team

B: S.Selwood(6) D.Merrett(6.5) C.Brown(6.5)

HB: B.Deledio(8) M.Scarlett(7.5) N.Malceski(7.5)

C: N.Dal Santo(7.5) T.Boak(7.5) C.Bateman(7)

HF: D.Motlop(6.5) L.Hansen(6.5) R.Petterd(6.5)

F: H.Ballantyne(7) B.Hall(7) C.Dawes(6.5)

R: D.Hille(7.5) *C.Judd(9) B.Vince(7.5)

Vibe Score: 24/30 Total Player Score: 128/180 Total Score: 221/300

Backs: Your team’s a very good one I reckon D.A., at first glance it’s quite solid with few real weaknesses. Your full back line is solid at best, but I think good enough to do a job as a unit. Selwood, as you say, is obviously the weak link – but he’s only 20 and with his pedigree I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns into a decent footballer. Merrett does the job each week and doesn’t look easy to play on. Brown, I may sound controversial, but I have problems seeing him as much more than a glorified thug who doesn’t get enough footy and isn’t damaging enough when he gets it. However, again, he can fill a role when need be. Your half-backline is a massive strength. Deledio is an absolute gun, I could easily have rated him higher. Only twice this year did he have less than 20 touches, and most of them would have been classy as bro. Malceski is a damaging runner and Scarlett is still a quality backmen. Whilst you may argue away that I’m “underrating a professional athlete,” I don’t really see a player in your backline that could go with a Buddy Franklin/Jack Riewoldt (not that many can!). It’s a very solid backline with real drive and could probably cover most forward lines in the game. If Selwood was, well, not Selwood, it’d have scored even higher. 23/30

Mids: Wow! There’s just so much quality here. Not really sure where to start. Bateman at his best is a real quality player who slipped in his standards this year, and next year (approaching 30) he will need to work hard to get to his 2008-9 best. Dal Santo who is a class act who I rate, great user of the footy and a smart player. He needs to learn how to get his own footy and stay in the game for longer periods of time, however. Travis Boak is just getting better and better and is probably near to the level of Gibbs/Selwood. Your centres are just stacked with quality as well. David Hille is one of the better rucks in the game, and can also go forward and be a damaging, difficult to match up on, target. Also a good leader. Chris Judd doesn’t need me to say much and Bernie Vince is just a prolific ball winner who uses it well. My only question mark is how well they are all able to find their own ball, as I see them as largely outside players – save of course from Judd. 25/30

Forwards: IMO this is the weakest part of your team. Your flankers can be damaging but in their own way haven’t shown enough that I would rate them as consistently damaging players. Unfortunately I see Motlop as largely wasted talent – should be one of the more dominate and dangerous forwards, instead I regard him as a player who can have swings of form but basically for 3 and a half quarters in any given match will be non-existant. I have perhaps rated Petterd a little harshly, but that’s because he hasn’t been able to show over long periods of time how good he can be and exactly where he will play. Lachie Hansen is getting better, but I’ve not seen enough of him to say that he’ll really take that next big step in 2011. Ballantyne is certainly the annoying [censored] you wanted in your team. Even more annoying because he does such a good job. Something tells me that in an average team he would be just that, but in your team he would fly. Barry Hall showed in 2010 that he still has it, and along with the ever-improving Chris Dawes would form a formidable forwardline. With two big power forwards, a young mobile tall, two skilful flankers who can be very dangerous and near impossible to match up and along with a quality crumber, it could be quite a handful. At the same time one could argue that it has two flakey flankers, a very young CHF, an ancient FF, a runt pocket and a still wet behind the ears big FP. Instinct tells me the answer is in the middle. 21/30

Trengove’s Team

B: Nick Maxwell (7.5) Darren Glass (7) Cale Hooker (6.5)

HB: Grant Birchall (7) Kelvin Moore (6) Jack Grimes (7.5)

C: Domenic Cassisi (7.5) Jarred McVeigh (7) Leigh Montagna (8)

HF: Brent Harvey (8) Jonathan Brown(8) Travis Varcoe (7)

F: Liam Patrick (5) Kurt Tippett (6.5) Jeff Garlett (6.5)

R: Aaron Sandilands (8.5) Matthew Boyd (8) Brad Sewell (7)

Vibe Score: 21/30 Total Player Score: 128.5/180 Total Score: 214.5/300

Backs: Your team has an interesting backline. My first thought (which has remained through my other thoughts [yes, I sometimes have more than one thought]) is that it’s too tall. It would need to face a team of giants to be best suited. Birchall and Grimes, and to a lesser extent Maxwell could possibly manage the munchkins, but I don’t think it’s any of their specific forte’s. Maxwell I’ve rated a little higher than I actually see him as he is a Premiership captain, you don’t get to this position without doing exactly what your team needs and without being a good leader. Glass has been a fantastic defender for a decade, but coming back at 30 after a year out may be too much for him. I’ve assumed full fitness for all teams, however, and as such have still rated him highly. I haven’t seen enough of Hooker that says to me he’ll take a big step up in 2011. Kelvin Moore a just don’t rate very highly. Grimes is obviously the best AFL player since the Great MFC No. 45 and, assuming full fitness, will easily fit in the Hannebery category. Birchall is a good user of the ball who gets the job done. Overall a decent backline that is a bit too tall and lacks a little class. 20/30

Mids: Your midfield intrigues me. At no point did I look at it and think “whoa, that’s quality,” but when I looked at each player individually I couldn’t really fault any of them. Cassisi, the Port captain, is obviously a good leader who gets a lot of footy and uses it well most times. McVeigh I’ve never particularly rated (oddly enough I think it’s just because of the way he looks) but he also just gets the job done. He’s also still quite young at 25. A hard worker who I’ve perhaps underrated. Leigh Montana I can’t stand, but can recognise that’s he’s a quality footballer. Gets so many touches and when he goes missing you notice, because often it’s when St. Kilda go missing. Sandilands is the best ruckman in the comp who has also added a few damaging strings to his bow. I love Matty Boyd, just churns through the possessions and is such a workhorse. He is a vital cog in the ‘Dogs midfield machine. Sewell I’m iffy about. Whilst he now has managed to get a bit more of the footy, I’m not convinced that he does enough with it. He is versatile though. All around I think it’s a very solid, if unspectacular, midfield which may just lack a little class. 25/30

Forwards: I must say that I really don’t like your forwardline. Now I’m sorry to rate Patrick a 5 (I hope the young man has a great career) but I just find it hard to rate him any other way. Tippett has got to be the most hot and cold player in the league and unfortunately he’s often colder much more often than the other. Much in the same boat as Walker - can be damaging, can get on a role, can play in a couple of roles, but too often goes missing or looks lazy. Garlett is pretty dangerous, I think he will improve in 2011, but not greatly. The half-forwardline is potent if not ancient. Brent Harvey is a freak – each yeah I feel he will diminish in his powers but it just doesn’t seem to happen. His 2010 was amazing and there’s little real reason, aside from age, to think he won’t do it again. Jonathon Brown is quite similar. He and Harvey are both match winners and it’s exciting to see them side by side (both have been pretty handy for the Vics!). Varcoe has been a great improver this year though I’m not sure how much improvement is left in him from here. An up and down forwardline – but with a dodgy full-forward line and a half-forward line relying on two older guys, I found it hard to rate this area highly. 20/30

OX’s Team

B: J.Gibson (7.5), C.Tarrant (7), S.Thompson (6.5)

HB: J.Winderlich (7), H.Taylor (7.5), C.Enright(7.5)

C: S.Black (7.5), D.Kerr (7.5), D.Pearce (6.5)

HF: S.Higgins (7.5), N.Riewoldt (9), J.Porplyzia (7)

F: L.Jurrah (7.5), J.Riewoldt (8.5), L.Jetta (7.5)

R: R.Warnock (6), M.Barlow (7.5), M.Rischitelli (7.5)

Vibe Score: 23/30 Total Player Score: 132.5/180 Total Score: 224.5/300

Backs: Similar to Trengove’s backline IMO, it’s just too tall. There’s some good players in there but I think it would be a pretty dysfunctional unit with little class getting the ball out of the backline (In my opinion!). Many of them also seem quite similar to me. Tarrant managed to turn his career around at Freo, but I think at his age it’ll be tough for him to have a massive impact at Collingwood. Josh Gibson is pretty solid, whilst Thompson is just a tryer IMO. Corey Enright is obviously class and is as consistent as they come. I love Harry Taylor, his job on N.R. in the Grand Final was almost enough to put him at an 8 in my view. Winderlich is a player I’ve never fully understood and, to be honest, have not taken too much notice in (I tend to try and avoid Bombers matches). From what I have seen, I think he is more of a midfielder. Overall, having 4 similar talls, a mid-fielder and a flanker doesn’t seem settled enough for me. 19/30

Mids: At its best, this is a very dangerous midfield – however there are a few question marks. I’m not convinced that Kerr is the player he once was, however he’s still only 27 and could very well have a big 2011 assuming he is fit. Black is turning 32, but is as classy as ever. Danyle Pearce does nothing for me, I just don’t think he’s kicked on like he should have and can’t really see it happening next year. Likewise for Warnock – who, in fact, I’ve probably seen less positive signs from. Another question mark is Barlow. How would you rate him? Obviously the kid has talent, but does one year of it cement a rating? How will he cope not only in a second year, but also after coming back from an horrific injury. I’m going to be positive with him because, to fight into the AFL from the VFL he must have some quality character and I don’t think you can fluke his form. Rischitelli is a pretty potent midfielder who seems to have a knack of popping up at important times, winning the footy well and using it properly. Overall, quite a decent (if questionable) midfield which would suffer from getting service from a second rate ruckman. 23/30

Forwards: POTENT! I don’t really know what else I can say. Higgins is a bloody classy footballer who can also rotate, with great effect, through the middle. Nick Riewoldt I’ve often considered to be the best player in the comp, or at least the most important (Goddard has probably taken this mantle from him IMO). To have him in the same forwardline as Jack – well, what more can I say! This team would be incredibly damaging in the air. Nick, Jack and Liam can all take great pack marks and are all very, very mobile. Higgins and Jetta can play the crumbing role, the midfilder role and even along with Porplyzia the lead-up forward role. The more I look at this lineup, the more I like it. The porpus is probably the weak link, and even he is a very damaging player when fit. 27/30

Roger Mellie’s Team

B: C Newman (7) T Chaplin (6.5) J Rivers (7)

HB D Rich (7) S Fisher(7.5) N Krakoeur (6.5)

C R Douglas (7) K Jack (7.5) J Melksham (6)

HF A Didak (7.5) J Roughead (7) R Murphy (7.5)

F M Le Cras (8) J Podsiadly (6) E Betts (6.5)

R T Goldstein (7) J Selwood (8) D Mundy (7.5)

Vibe Score: 21/30 Total Player Score: 127/180 Total Score: 213/300

Backs: I think you’ve got a hard-working backline that lacks a bit of class IMO. I like Newman, I think he’s a good leader who goes 100% every game but I wouldn’t put him amongst the better defenders in the league and seeing him alongside Chaplin and Rivers doesn’t inspire much confidence in me. Chaplin I just find OK, he does a job but I don’t think is good enough to really worry sides, especially without a lot of help (I must say that I haven’t seen a great amount of him, if I’ve underrated him I apologize but I guess that’s just part of judging 180 players). Rivers is obviously a top reader of the play and is a great 3rd man in. I have serious concerns over his disposal and his ability to cover an opponent. I only rated him as high as I did because every time I speak with someone from the club they seem to love him and whatever he does, so he’s obviously doing something right by the team. Krakoeur I put in the same thought as with Chaplin, just OK who won’t worry top teams too much IMO. Sam Fisher is quality, and along with Rivers, would be pretty good at controlling the air. This backline would probably work better as a unit than I give the individual players for. I worry about Rich on a back flank. I’m not sure about how much upside he has and I’m not sure he’s quick enough to be ultra-damaging off a back flank. The types of players you have in the backline are pretty good, but I’m not sold on the actual players themselves. 19/30

Mids: It’s a solid-quality midfield you’ve got there. Goldstein indeed did have a great year, though if McIntosh, Petrie and Hale increase their game time he may not get much of a look in (or might, whatever happens at North). Assuming he plays though, I think he’s a very talented young ruck. Joel Selwood, all sledges aside, is a match-winning midfielder who will surely only get better as he reaches his mid-20’s. I reckon he’ll be a player to step up even further with Ablett. Mundy is also a worry for opposition teams, very versatile and a headache in any position he occupies. Douglas is a solid player who forms a formidable lineup along with Vince and van Berlo. Kieran Jack is amazing – I was very close to rating him an 8 but just couldn’t do it after one brilliant season. I’m quite sure, however, that in 12 months he’d be up there. Melksham is the weak link in your midfield. He could turn into a decent player, but I haven’t seen enough quality from him to see him being a key player in 2011. 24/30

Forwards: You are raving about your small forwards, and with Le Cras and Didak you probably have two of the best. Creative, damaging players who can turn a game in an instant and also play above their stature. Eddie Betts I’m no where near as big a fan of. I think if you took his goals from inside 20 out of his tally, he’d be nearly nought. However, that to a degree is the role of a small forward I suppose. Bob Murphy is a classy outside player who, when on, could do some serious damage with those midgets. Your talls I have big question marks over. J. Pod had one very good year, but away from the Cattery I can’t see him doing any damage and I can only see him going downhill pretty quickly unfortunately. The majority of his goals were kicked at home, he was largely ineffective away from the dunghole. Roughead is an odd one, a very very odd one. I swear he’s actually a CHB. He completely goes missing when Franklin plays. On his own he seems to work harder and make his presence felt, but too often his big body is rendered useless by laziness. Overall, some quality smalls and a very good mid-sized, but too many question marks over your talls to make it really count. 22/30

Deez Nutz’ Team

B: A. Rance (6.5), J. Waite (7), M. Hurley (7)

HB: G. Broughton (7), S. Gilbert (7), J. Sherman (7)

C: D. Wells (6.5), S. Mitchell (7), R. Tambling (6.5)

HF: P. Chapman (7.5), B. Staker (6.5), R. O'Keefe (7.5)

F: A. Wonaeamirri (6), G. Ablett (9), C. Hitchcock (6.5)

R: N. Naitanui (6.5), D. Swan (8.5), D. Cross (8)

Vibe Score: 21/30 Total Player Score: 127.5/180 Total Score: 208.5/300

Backs: Deez, mate, your team just seems... I don’t know. There’s lots of pretty good players in there, and a couple of guns, but it’s just not balanced at all. Waite and Hurley are damaging talls (I rate Hurley and think he’s in for a big year) but I think both should be in the forwardline – that’s where they play their best footy IMO. I think Hurley only played back as a lesson to him. Gilbert is a bit of a general and the Tank would provide fierce drive off the half backline. Broughton consistently gets his hands on the footy and is also good to have in the backline. Rance is just OK, I don’t see him setting the world on fire in 2011. I think you’ve really only got two talls there, and one of them is an inexperienced KPF. Two quality running halfbacks but I find it hard to ignore players I don’t like in certain positions. 18/30

Mids: All things considered, I think your midfield deserves bonus points for having so many quality players spread throughout your team. Swan, Ablett and to a lesser extent Cross and O’Keefe are all elite. Sherman and Chapman can also have pretty handy stints through the middle. Naitanui is a tough one to rate. He just has no football brain – but in this team I don’t think he’d need to do too much, because he’d have so many quality mids around him. Wells has not done nearly enough of what he promised, and that’s very disappointing IMO. Tambling’s move west may help his career, but like Wells, he has not lived up to his promise. Not that it should come into it, but it’s hard to ignore, considering his draft position it just hasn’t happened for him. He’s probably good enough to have a good year, maybe it’ll be like Rodan moving west – then again, maybe it won’t. The extractor is a great little player, tries hard and can get the hard ball better than most. Swan and Cross collect millions of possessions per game and with Ablett, Chapman and O’Keefe, the midfield rotation would be very difficult to stop. 26/30

Forwards: Here’s where it all comes to a head however. I just can’t see how a forwardline of midgets and an average half back player can kick winning scores consistently. They may get enough delivery, but any half decent backline would repel pretty easily. Ablett is an amazing mark above his head for his size, but he just wouldn’t get a look in. Chapman and O’keefe are hardnut ball winners who can kick a goal but also rely on bigger bodies around them to have an impact – not to mention the runt Hitchcock. Aussie could have a decent year, but he’s too long out of the game (8 games in 2 years) and hasn’t shown enough of a glimpse to get much of a ranking IMO – still, I’m certainly not writing him off. As I said, you’ve got quality players (which is reflected in your high midfield score) but I just can’t give high marks to a criminally undersize forwardline which still containts 3 average players. 16/30

The Master’s Team

FB: J. Surjan (6.5) N. Grima (7) S. Hurn (7)

HB: J. Kelly (7) L. McPharlin (7) J. Adcock (6.5)

C: D. Thomas (7.5) S. Thompson (7) S. Hill (7.5)

HF: M. Morton (6.5) L. Henderson (6.5) D. Swallow (5.5)

FF: A. Monfries (6.5) L. Franklin (8.5) A. Schneider (7)

R: M. Jamar (7.5) J.P. Kennedy (7) R. Griffen (7)

Vibe Score: 22/30 Total Player Score: 125/180 Total Score: 211/300

Backs: Unspectacular backline, but I think together it would work alright. Adcock and Surjan I see as OK players, Adcock probably slight above that, who do the job as needed but wouldn’t be a big concern for opposition teams. Especially considering Adcock has missed much of the last two seasons. Hurn is a good rebounding defender with a strong body and a booming kick. Kelly gets a lot of footy, though it’ll be interesting to see how he plays in 2011 when that Cats are on the decline (IMO). Grima and Mcpharlin are very important to their teams, together in your defence they could probably manage most combinations of forwards. Indeed, I think your whole backline is quite flexible but without a great amount of quality or star presence. 22/30

Mids: You’ve got a very solid midfield with no real weaknesses that I can see. Indeed, Griffen and Thompson were boardering on 7.5 but I just couldn’t put them there. There’s something about Thompson that tells me he’s past my best, and Griffen isn’t consistently damaging enough IMO. Jamar is obviously in All-Australian but it will be interesting to see if he can back it up – I think he will have a good year and should give your quality midfield good ball use. Each time I’ve seen Kennedy I’ve liked what I’ve seen, he’s still young and had a big finish to the year. I think he will have a good 2011. You don’t finish 3rd in this year’s Swans B and F if you aren’t a good player. Your wings are the strength of your middle I reckon. Hill is electrifying and is a joy to watch and Dale Thomas had a fantastic 2010 which saw him mould into a much more rounded, consistent and damaging player. I worry a little about players in your middle winning their own ball, as I really only see Thompson as a traditionally inside player. 23/30

Forwards: You’ve got an interesting forwardline. At its best I think it’d be hard to match up on, but I don’t think there’s enough genuine talent and experience their to make it count in 2011. If Mitch Morton can get his head straight for a season he could be a very difficult prospect – but I won’t hold my breath. I think Monfries is a very overrated footballer, I don’t think he has great disposal and I think he gets too much soft footy to be regarded as a dynamo in 2011. Lachie Henderson I think will be a talent, but like a few other young tall forwards, I just can’t see him really stepping up to be a quality, premiership-winning CHF in 2011. Schneider is a quality small forward who know how to find the footy and knows where the goals are. Heading into his prime, he should be a damaging proposition. I’m sorry to rate Swallow so low, but I had to be fair to the other guys who have first year players for the GC who haven’t played. I’ve heard amazing things, and if he’s indeed better than his brother he’ll be a star. However, I just can’t rate a guy who’s never played AFL very highly. Franklin is the jewell of your team. He is a superstar and is almost enough to make any defensive unit shiver. I just worry that in this forwardline, there’s not enough else (in 2011 at least). 19/20

So, the finals standings:

Ox5: 224.5 (1st)

Destroy All: 221 (2nd)

High Tower: 217 (3rd)

Trengove: 214.5 (4th)

Range Rover: 213.5 (5th)

Roger Mellie: 213

The Master: 211

Eth 38: 209

E25: 208.5

Deez Nutz: 208.5

Let the stone throwing begin!

[H_T 2,941]

Wow. I think you like judging 45.

Thankyou for all that time & effort you've gone too. Impressive detail and good critical analysis. Like the way you've gone about scoring (incl. vibe scoring) to arrive at your order for votes.

Thanks to all the judges to date. Great exercise.

[ox_5 163]

Wow. Super effort 45.

Thanks for taking the time and plenty of effort to do that.

[Keyser Söze 0]

I find it interesting to read such a comprehensive rating of all those players, 45.

You've critically underrated a few, & similarly overrated a few, since this is essentially a prediction for performance in the 2011 season (if I understand correctly).

Edited January 7, 2011 by Keyser Söze

[45HG 1,539]

I find it interesting to read such a comprehensive rating of all those players, 45.

You've critically underrated a few, & similarly overrated a few, since this is essentially a prediction for performance in the 2011 season (if I understand correctly).

Good to see you go out on a limb and pretty much echo what my prefacing post said.

[Keyser Söze 0]

Yeah, I know.

But some just stick out as mind-boggling to me.

It is, as you said, obviously a hard task and then difference of opinion has to come into it.

I just can't fathom how Goddard is worth 9.5, but Hodge 8.5, or how Josh Kennedy, the best young CHF in the L doesn't rate higher than a 6.5...

[45HG 1,539]

I just can't fathom how Goddard is worth 9.5, but Hodge 8.5, or how Josh Kennedy, the best young CHF in the L doesn't rate higher than a 6.5...

Yeah I can see what you mean.

Personally I'd rather have Goddard than Hodge. I just see him as the complete footballer who can pretty much do everything Hodge does as well as him, but can also play in more positions and is more of a danger with his height.

Having said that, I'd probably rate Hodge at least even with Judd who I think I gave a 9. So Hodge probably deserves a 9.

Kennedy may have been more an instinct decision but it's hard to rate young KPPs. As you say I may have underrated him, but I also felt his form dropped away towards the end of the season, making it tough to rate him - especially considering the season he could be in for at W.C.

[Keyser Söze 0]

West Coast are an awful team, but Kennedy still kicked 41.19 for the 2010 season.

Like his teammate Le Cras, he doesn't often miss.

Imagine him in a good team that could get him the footy cleanly...

Anyway, you could go through your list and pick holes in it for eternity, but that would be said no matter who had done it.

It's a bloody hard thing to do and I'm not about to do it myself.

But seriously -- Kennedy a 6.5?

Rivers got 7!

Jason Winderlich got 7!

and then Cotchin only got 6.5!

Marc Murphy got 7, but Hanneberry got 7.5?

I could pick holes in this all night...

but that would be mean.

[45HG 1,539]

I could pick holes in this all night...

but that would be mean.

And no one would read it.