Addam Maric

[dee-luded 2,959]

So... You can't come up with a decent argument, and as a result you resort to character assassination.

Classy.

Again, I ask, based on what? His surname?

Dyland Grimes was left for the preseason draft, has done nothing of note so far, so why would you want him?

Because of his surname?

Granted Maric has not done much, but he has shown quite a bit more.

And he went at pick 21 for a reason, whether that potential has been fulfilled or not.

Now, going to dodge the question again..?

OK, call it dodged.

Grimes is a defender the size we need to develop, I see him a little bit like a young Warnock used to be in the

VFL. We know of the families solid culture & work ethic + there's Jack.

He was mentioned as talented in the U-18's so would be a development player which suits.

Warnock & Rivers won't be in the side IMO by 2013.

We'd still need to recruit another Higher rated Key defender hopefully early in this draft.

And we need to draft a tall strong young forward. As well as a later pick for a older Ruck/Forward.

As far as attacking your character, it wasn't an attack, but just an observation. I don't mind if your argumentative with others, unless there upset by you. I don't mind people needing attention, if thats you,,, thats OK, were all different. But what I do mind is people attacking others for a simple thought or opinion.

So I have no problem with you, or your posts generally it's interesting.

So don't feel attacked, it's not necessary.

It's just that I choose to not feel the hostility I feel, when involved in an argument.

Edited September 30, 2010 by dee-luded

[e25 5]

OK, call it dodged.

At least my Cameron Cloke proposal was a joke.

Yours is serious, yet based on nothing other than a surname.

[ox_5 163]

If we take a highly rated young key defender in this upcoming draft with an early pick I am sure I wont be alone in being disappointed. If he is best available, sure. But there is no way key defender of any mould is required. We have the makings of one of the best defences in the league, Grimes wouldn't get a spot in it.

If we thought Grimes was worthy, he would be on our list. We passed on him on several occasions. Namely the PSD.

[Neita3000 37]

Yip sorry got me Selwoods wrong - should read ok... so bloody many of them. However, point remains the same if you look at names after.

All drafts vary, pick 21 cannot be equated to another draft. Sometimes if it a deep draft pick 65 is better. You must compared players ability not where they where taken in a draft.

Levi Greenwood looks pretty handy as well.

Killed us in rd 22

[The Chazz 4,077]

OK, call it dodged.

Grimes is a defender the size we need to develop, I see him a little bit like a young Warnock used to be in the

VFL. We know of the families solid culture & work ethic + there's Jack.

He was mentioned as talented in the U-18's so would be a development player which suits.

Warnock & Rivers won't be in the side IMO by 2013.

We'd still need to recruit another Higher rated Key defender hopefully early in this draft.

And we need to draft a tall strong young forward. As well as a later pick for a older Ruck/Forward.

As far as attacking your character, it wasn't an attack, but just an observation. I don't mind if your argumentative with others, unless there upset by you. I don't mind people needing attention, if thats you,,, thats OK, were all different. But what I do mind is people attacking others for a simple thought or opinion.

So I have no problem with you, or your posts generally it's interesting.

So don't feel attacked, it's not necessary.

It's just that I choose to not feel the hostility I feel, when involved in an argument.

Big call. That makes Riv all of 28 years of age at the start of 2013? Should have a couple more left in him, especially if he continues to play full seasons (there's no doubting his ability).

[e25 5]

Your an argumentative bugger aren't you E? Every thread seems to go to about 6 posts before you end up in an argument.

Or are you just trying to pot anyone after your Cameron Cloke effort?

I asked a fairly reasonable question and was instead told I'm an argumentative attention seeker.

That's beside the point.

If you too are too stupid to realize the Cameron Cloke thread was a joke, then you're also beyond reasoning with.

Did anyone actually read the thread, or just enjoy jumping on the abuse bandwagon?

[e25 5]

OK, call it dodged.

Grimes is a defender the size we need to develop, I see him a little bit like a young Warnock used to be in the

VFL. We know of the families solid culture & work ethic + there's Jack.

He was mentioned as talented in the U-18's so would be a development player which suits.

Warnock & Rivers won't be in the side IMO by 2013.

We'd still need to recruit another Higher rated Key defender hopefully early in this draft.

And we need to draft a tall strong young forward. As well as a later pick for a older Ruck/Forward.

As far as attacking your character, it wasn't an attack, but just an observation. I don't mind if your argumentative with others, unless there upset by you. I don't mind people needing attention, if thats you,,, thats OK, were all different. But what I do mind is people attacking others for a simple thought or opinion.

So I have no problem with you, or your posts generally it's interesting.

So don't feel attacked, it's not necessary.

It's just that I choose to not feel the hostility I feel, when involved in an argument.

Big edit there.

Yeah, sure, wasn't an attack, just an observation.

Is that like me observing that you're a [censored]? Come on...

Back to the point - what makes you think Dylan Grimes is a highly rated KPD?

He's not.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

I dont get why pepole on here think we need more tall defenders.

I mean, we have Frawley, Garland, Rivers, Joel Mac (can play tall), Warnock, and from what I hear Martin.

That is 6, surley that is enough, I could be wrong, but I think we need a big forward more then a big back.

I agree - maybe we are light on for small defenders but the focus is surely on rucks and big forwards.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Big call. That makes Riv all of 28 years of age at the start of 2013? Should have a couple more left in him, especially if he continues to play full seasons (there's no doubting his ability).

Yeah, thats right But IMO, he, currently, is only just around the bottom mark of an premiership player. He may get stronger but I think he's at his peak Now.

Last year, our footy dept could see that Frawley was coming on but new we still needed another Topline big Defender,,, (Brian Lake),,, but we missed him. At the moment, we have one tall Premiership player in Frawls, and I think a smaller counterpart in Garland, who in my reckoning is a genuine in betweener, flanker, to attacking small Key posi player. He can pinch hit on Keys, or smalls, or forward.

If we're trying to build the ideal attacking defence,,, (and I think we can all see how important that half backline rebound is) then IMO, we need to find that Elite CHB. Chip is handy but will have his hands full with the best tall forward. Garland is very handy as a universal player,, and imo is more useful keeping him that way. Not too BIG.

Rivers is, like Jonesy, a player we love and respect, but that does not make him an Elite CHB, that can not only stop opposition attacks but also turn on the attack with pinpoint passes, or visionary setups to our forwards. Or an attacking run, deep into attack with the finishing poise to goal or hit a target on the run.

Then we need to build that small medium attacking flair. How would Harbrow go getting a game with us? We are still to settle those places,,, and people are scratching their heads as to why Warnock is on the market.

We don't have too much time to recruit those types we need. It will take somewher between 2 and 4 years to get those tall boys we recruit into solid form. This is the year to recruit those Talls, as the footy dept told us last year, the 2009 draft wasn't the one for talls. So?

Our forwards have a lot of class about them, but not much toughness or stregth & muscle. But we don't need to use a first Rnd pick for such a beast. 2nd, 3rd or 4th could easily provide a player of this style. The trick is to take 2 or 3, just like tattslotto, more opportunities.

I'd love to get Gaff or Heppell or Smedts, but unless we can get another pick 1st Rnd, I think we'll have to take best Tall. It's easier and quite common for tall forward who didn't cut it in the forward line, to become defenders. So I'm hoping we can go for Talls that have the skills to play either end.

So,, if we were to swap Maric for DGrimes, I would be satisfied with that, as I believe the boys of good character, has the size, is athletic enough, but just isn't at the top of the U-19's. We would give him the best chance. That was my reasoning.

It took Frawley a few years to show he could match it with the big bodies, and Rivers hasn't, he's a good cover to get across to help out. But lacks the attacking flair and class.

I think we need to draft at least, 4 to 5, U-18's this year, so I think there will be more spots to vacate. And likely to try to trade some out.

Ps: I don't know how our List No's stackup right now, so maybe someone better with numbers and the new list rules can enlighten us..

[Red Sox 2]

I asked a fairly reasonable question and was instead told I'm an argumentative attention seeker.

That's beside the point.

If you too are too stupid to realize the Cameron Cloke thread was a joke, then you're also beyond reasoning with.

Did anyone actually read the thread, or just enjoy jumping on the abuse bandwagon?

Mine is a not a high horse E.

Calling you an argumentative bugger is hardly abuse, but your IQ is obviously on a whole other level to the average persons.

Note - for a reference to the average persons IQ, see Cameron Cloke!

Edited September 30, 2010 by Demon Hill

[e25 5]

At least you've got a horse.

[daisycutter 29,711]

. . . the Cameron Cloke thread was a joke, . . .

We know, but are you now claiming it was your original intention? That would be even funnier.

Did anyone actually read the thread, or just enjoy jumping on the abuse bandwagon?

Yep, both B) B)

Edited September 30, 2010 by daisycutter

[jacey 333]

Garland, who in my reckoning is a genuine in betweener, flanker, to attacking small Key posi player. He can pinch hit on Keys, or smalls, or forward.

If you reckon Garland is a flanker, why throw up another flanker in Dylan Grimes. That's right 193. Magic number. Grant Birchall is even taller 194cm i think now. Surely he's KPP.

Garland has both covered and in an age where Key forwards run more and the Goliath types are rare, Garland can play KPP comfortably.

As for Maric. He needs a new role. Maybe a back pocket player who kicks out.

Edited September 30, 2010 by jacey

[GOLF 13]

At the risk of upsetting the proud traditions of this site, I would like to discuss the player mentioned in the thread title: Maric.

At the moment the only role he seems to function in is small forward. As we currently seem to only employ one of these, he is in direct competition with Wona, Bennell and Jetta at least. Where do we think he rates against those three? Admittedly Bennell may take some other roles around the ground, but in general we are well staffed in those other roles as well, so Maric should be considered against all three.

I think he may be ahead of Jetta, but not on Jetta's good days. I also think 3 players for one position is adequate depth. So I can see the case that Maric is surplus to our current, and unless he shows dramatic development, our mid to long term, requirements. It would therefore be A Good Thing if we can trade him for a type we are currently or potentially in need of.

We need a mature bodied ruck as back up for Jamar for the next 2 years. Could even be 28yo. Might get one for Maric if the other club is well stocked with tall timber. We need a tall forward or prospect in case Watts or Fitzpatrick don't make it. Could be up to 19-25yo. Might get one for Maric plus a pick, but won't be a star. We need tall defender prospects who will be AFL ready in 2014 and on. An Apprentice gorrilla-handler would be nice, as Warnock is the oldest of our tall defenders. Might get a youngster (1-2 year player) who wants to come home for Maric and a pick. We can always do, even in a corrupted draft, with improving our draft picks (eg, Maric plus pick 49 for something around 30 or below).

But we will not get outright stars for a player like Maric, even if we throw in late picks. So consider: can we get a trade for any of our required types for Maric plus 49? If not, can we improve our draft pick 49 for Maric? If not, what can we do that is notably better than retaining Maric on the list and trying to develop him into other roles?

[titan_uranus 25,042]

He can go as far as I'm concerned, but not if that makes getting Alwyn Davey any more likely.

[rpfc 28,734]

We know, but are you now claiming it was your original intention? That would be even funnier.

DC - he referred in the thread title to Cameron Cloke being our 'saviour' in the back-up ruck...

Obviously, tongue in cheek.

And, E25 - stop applying March to end of season rules to posts just before trade week.

This is the time when everyone gets silly, unreasonable, and angry.

Posters are getting the former, you are being the middle, and everyone is becoming the latter.

Let the craziness go.

It's spring break!

I mean, it's trade week!

[e25 5]

I'm just not sure what my opinion is anymore...

Am I [censored] off and self-righteous?

Am I tongue in cheek and taking the [censored]?

Am I more correct than anyone else?

Do I even care?

It changes post to post & I can't keep up...

I'ma just embrace the silliness.

But first I gotta get this outta the way - are you gay?

[Carlos Danger 380]

I don't rate Maric and can't see the potential. Would be happy to be proven wrong but he comes across as a list-clogger that will be eventually de-listed. If off-loading Maric brings across the likes of Setanta or Alwyn, I'd be happy with that.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Deez Nutz

[dee-luded 2,959]

If you reckon Garland is a flanker, why throw up another flanker in Dylan Grimes. That's right 193. Magic number. Grant Birchall is even taller 194cm i think now. Surely he's KPP.

Garland has both covered and in an age where Key forwards run more and the Goliath types are rare, Garland can play KPP comfortably.

As for Maric. He needs a new role. Maybe a back pocket player who kicks out.

Let me put it this way. I see Garland as our Sam Gilbert type. He's that handy player that can play on talls & smalls & at CHB against the right matchup.

I don't think he has the frame to carry too much muscle. If he does it will slow him down & he'll lose agility. Just my opinion.

Same as Rivers, I think he'll struggle to get a game ahead of Garland in 2 - 3 years as I think they'll play the same role. Unless garland pushes forward.

[daisycutter 29,711]

I'm just not sure what my opinion is anymore...

Am I [censored] off and self-righteous?

Am I tongue in cheek and taking the [censored]?

Am I more correct than anyone else?

Do I even care?

It changes post to post & I can't keep up...

I'ma just embrace the silliness.

But first I gotta get this outta the way - are you gay?

why would you think rpfc is gay?

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Maybe a name called Morton may be a better trade.

Yeah he could be a handy pick-up however i don't think the Tiges would let him go given his late season form.

I don't know if north would want him but maric and 3rd pick for Hale? Or is that selling them a bit short?

This i agree with. Hale is in a similar boat to Maric in that he got bugger all time in the AFL this year so his currency has slipped somewhat. Of course North have to 'want' Maric but with a lack of small crumbing forwards and Boomer at the back end of his career they may be interested. I have come around on the idea of taking Hale as long as we don't give up too much. Having him as a long forward target, pinch-hitting in the ruck could be really good for our other forwards because he would almost certainly have to command the opposition number 1 defender, leaving the likes of Watts, Jurrah, Petterd and Green to run riot!

It also gives Gawn and Fitzpatrick time to develop. Means we can get rid of PJ and use Spencer as the interim back-up should we cop an injury to Jamar or Hale.

So Maric and 3rd round pick to North for Hale.

Demons then somehow try to secure another pick. The draft is said to run pretty deep for a while with talent and i am still keen on drafting for success for another year or two.

I also think that Harrington's comments on the MFC website about trading for specific needs in trade week will extend to the draft as he made the comment that

"We also need to find out about our own list in the next 12 months - we found this year we had a breadth of midfielders, which was really pleasing and a defence that settled pretty nicely,” he said.

Use our first pick in the ND on either a tall forward or a half back flanker with elite kicking and a big tank.

Use the second pick on whatever we don't take with the third.

Pick up perhaps one or two more kids in the draft anduse the last two to upgrade Spencer and McKenzie.

[e25 5]

why would you think rpfc is gay?

Didn't see survivor the other night? No?

Don't blame you, I only stumbled across it briefly before I went to bed, but it seemed like a lot of people did.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

why would you think rpfc is gay?

Maybe he's cruising for a partner?

My question is why does Maric want out? He hasn't set the world on fire in either the 1sts or 2nds and FIGJAM and uncoachable seem to be thrown about. Is he struggling to be accepted by the rest of the players?

As much as I think he has the tools to be a good player I get the feeling that he might just be one himself.

[The Chazz 4,077]

At the risk of upsetting the proud traditions of this site, I would like to discuss the player mentioned in the thread title: Maric.

At the moment the only role he seems to function in is small forward. As we currently seem to only employ one of these, he is in direct competition with Wona, Bennell and Jetta at least. Where do we think he rates against those three? Admittedly Bennell may take some other roles around the ground, but in general we are well staffed in those other roles as well, so Maric should be considered against all three.

I think he may be ahead of Jetta, but not on Jetta's good days. I also think 3 players for one position is adequate depth. So I can see the case that Maric is surplus to our current, and unless he shows dramatic development, our mid to long term, requirements. It would therefore be A Good Thing if we can trade him for a type we are currently or potentially in need of.

We need a mature bodied ruck as back up for Jamar for the next 2 years. Could even be 28yo. Might get one for Maric if the other club is well stocked with tall timber. We need a tall forward or prospect in case Watts or Fitzpatrick don't make it. Could be up to 19-25yo. Might get one for Maric plus a pick, but won't be a star. We need tall defender prospects who will be AFL ready in 2014 and on. An Apprentice gorrilla-handler would be nice, as Warnock is the oldest of our tall defenders. Might get a youngster (1-2 year player) who wants to come home for Maric and a pick. We can always do, even in a corrupted draft, with improving our draft picks (eg, Maric plus pick 49 for something around 30 or below).

But we will not get outright stars for a player like Maric, even if we throw in late picks. So consider: can we get a trade for any of our required types for Maric plus 49? If not, can we improve our draft pick 49 for Maric? If not, what can we do that is notably better than retaining Maric on the list and trying to develop him into other roles?

This is where I just don't understand how some on here think! No offence at all Golf, not a personal attack at you or anyone else that has the same opinion.

Here is how it stands; In 2014, should Warnock be still on our list, he will be 30 years old, and going by players int he same role (ie Scarlett), it would be fair to say he'd only have 1 or 2 left in him after that 2014 season. That said, he is still a bloody good defender, and while not the most glamorous player on our list, he's as solid as they come, especially against the gorilla forwards of the comp.

Enter Chip Frawley. In 2014, he will be 26. Again, going by that belief of a good full back being able to play until they are 32ish, that gives him up to the year 2020 until he needs replacing.

Colin Garland is in the same boat as Frawley (same age bracket). While it's debateable if he can handle a gorilla forward, he wouldn't need to as long as Frawley is there. As a "back-up gorilla tamer" he is adequate without being first choice.

I haven't even included Tom McNamara who as we know, has had a sniff of AFL footy, couldn't crack a game this year, but that's not to say he wont be "that" defender next year or the year after.

Brisbane are the only team that I would consider having more than 1 gorillas up forward - it's a rare thing to face. When we do, it's then up to a 3rd defender to come and assist the weaker defender - which in this arguement would be Garland, to ensure we aren't belted.

So, when you say we need one AFL ready by 2014, WE DON'T!!! I'm of the view that we need to draft a couple around of kids in 2014/15, with the view that they will have a good 3 years of growing and playing at Casey, then be AFL ready come 2018. It wont be until minimum 2018 that we will really need one (or 2) anyway.

Key Position Defenders seem to come on quicker than other positions. As I said in a previous post, Rivers (again, arguably a KPD, can play it if required) won the Rising Star in his first year, Frawley had cemented himself last year (which was his 3rd season), and had it not been for injuries, what could Garland have been like at the end of his 2nd season/start of his 3rd?

This is of course providing we don't have injuries.

Surely, just surely, this answers anyones concerns we have about needing more defenders?

My point, this draft, and the next 2 drafts have no priority to take tall defenders with our early picks, definitely not trading for one. I'd look at taking one 3rd-5th round pick, or rookie list, that's it.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Yeah he could be a handy pick-up however i don't think the Tiges would let him go given his late season form.

This i agree with. Hale is in a similar boat to Maric in that he got bugger all time in the AFL this year so his currency has slipped somewhat. Of course North have to 'want' Maric but with a lack of small crumbing forwards and Boomer at the back end of his career they may be interested. I have come around on the idea of taking Hale as long as we don't give up too much. Having him as a long forward target, pinch-hitting in the ruck could be really good for our other forwards because he would almost certainly have to command the opposition number 1 defender, leaving the likes of Watts, Jurrah, Petterd and Green to run riot!

It also gives Gawn and Fitzpatrick time to develop. Means we can get rid of PJ and use Spencer as the interim back-up should we cop an injury to Jamar or Hale.

So Maric and 3rd round pick to North for Hale.

Demons then somehow try to secure another pick. The draft is said to run pretty deep for a while with talent and i am still keen on drafting for success for another year or two.

I also think that Harrington's comments on the MFC website about trading for specific needs in trade week will extend to the draft as he made the comment that

"We also need to find out about our own list in the next 12 months - we found this year we had a breadth of midfielders, which was really pleasing and a defence that settled pretty nicely,” he said.

Use our first pick in the ND on either a tall forward or a half back flanker with elite kicking and a big tank.

Use the second pick on whatever we don't take with the third.

Pick up perhaps one or two more kids in the draft anduse the last two to upgrade Spencer and McKenzie.

How about Maric to Richmond for their 2nd Round pick, then forwarded on to North for Hale to come to Melbourne. Means we don't give up any of our picks, we have a loss on Maric (picked him at 21 or something, Tiges 2nd round pick is late 20's), Richmond could do with a small crumbing forward as I think Maric is better than their current options. Roos get a 2nd round pick for Hale.

If anything, I would delist Spencer and rookie Johnson. I have seen nothing in Spencer that makes me think he will make it as an AFL footballer. I'm serious, I have no praise or hope for him whatsoever.