Strange no one cares to justify Judd escaping elligibty exemption . Simply suggesting as it occurred in an 09 final makes it ok despite actuallly having a penalty. Does the inconsistency not matter... Are finals fair go ?

I don't buy his ( CJ) sanctimonious justification of his heroic altruism for his once beloved club. He went to Carlton for his own benefit and have no problem with that ... Until he spins to suit.

Each to their own

What is there to justify? this rule has been in place for as long as I can remember. It's only today that we are questioning it?

How can you say finals are fair go? He got rubbed out for 3 or 4 weeks FFS. And, the last I knew, the Brownlow Medal is awarded to the Best & Fairest of the Home and Away season. Is that justification enough? Just like the Coleman Medal - you don't add your goals kicked in the Finals series to determine the Coleman Medalist.

Ok, let's question the Fairest aspect in relation to the Pav incident, HE DIDN'T GET REPORTED SO HE IS STILL ELIGIBLE TO BE THE BEST AND FAIREST FOR THE YEAR.

Am I missing an underlying issue in regards to Judd? All I will say to the Melbourne supporters that are whinging - would you like to see Tom Scully not accept a Brownlow because he got suspended in the finals series from the year before? Would you like to see Jack Trengove not accept his medal because he got away with elbowing Joel Selwood in the face? I doubt it! I'm as one-eyed as the rest of you, but this group of sooks on here make you look absolutely pathetic.

As I commented on in an earlier post, I can't believe we, Melbourne supporters, are whinging about this. If other teams are complaining, let them, we as Melbourne supporters are better than that, and don't need a % of our supporters carrying on like spoilt little brats. Grow up, you are giving the rest of us a bad name.

A tad over the top. Opinions on a forum about the winner of the highest profile AFL award of the year, the day after the event, aren't the end of the world. I suppose there are <insert afl player #212323> trade/draft threads to bump.

A tad over the top. Opinions on a forum about the winner of the highest profile AFL award of the year, the day after the event, aren't the end of the world. I suppose there are <insert afl player #212323> trade/draft threads to bump.

Fair point.

All for opinions/disagreements, but when we have facts slapping us across the face, and people are arguing against them, makes some look like they are chopping heavy on a bunch of sour grapes. I expect that from Collingwood and Geelong supporters, not us.

Edited September 21, 201014 yr by billy2803

Judd is a class act both on and off the field. He enriches our game. He is a credit to himself, his club and the AFL. He is an outstanding character and footballer who I have had the privilege of getting to know on a personal level. His reasons for choosing Carlton over Melbourne was only a result of 2007 being the start of the great Melbourne rebuild rather than the end (like Carlton). If he had of come to the Dees we would not have the list we have now and still be as far away from a premiership as we have ever been. He did not go to Carlton for the money. In the end there was very little monetary difference between the Melbourne and Carlton offers and associated offer (Melbourne had a Visy lined up as well). Juddy once told me that he left the meeting with Stynes and Lyon rang up Bec and said "I am going to Melbourne". Some time after this reality set in. He wants to win a Premiership and mark my words if Juddy had come to Melbourne at the end of 2007 he and the MFC would not have any chance of winning a premiership in his career. Give credit to the guy for doing the right thing by us and himself.

I have watched a couple Melbourne games with Juddy and I can report he still has a soft spot for our team. (No he will never play for us.) He was speaking highly of Frawley in 2008 before most on this site could see the talent. He was no fan of Robo (dropped to the ground too much, no defensive pressure), but rates Trengrove the highest of all our young guns. He thinks Melbourne is now a potential premiership list but warns me that it is going to take much longer than we would like to think.

Those who are paying Juddy out should stop. It sounds like sour grapes. You are discrediting yourselves.

Congratulations on a well deserved second Brownlow Juddy!

If all that is true, and again, it might be, why the spin and the [censored]? Why not come out and say that?

Does he think he'll be made to look like a tool, when in hindsight our list is probably as good if not better than Carlton's? (which I agree, it probably wouldn't have been had he agreed to play for us).

It's the flat out lying that shits me. He never had the guts to come out and say "this is why I chose Carlton", he just went on to rubbish other clubs and point out things like training facilities (back when Princess Park was a crapheap mind you).

At the end of the day he is an incredible footballer, who got lucky last night because he is surrounded by utter mediocracy, he knows it, and we know it.

I don't wish him or the filthy scumbags he plays for any success whatsoever, and he can keep his gushing about our club to himself. Nobody cares what he thinks about us now.

The ying and yang of the Judd comments today! GNF, you are spot on. He is a champion footballer. He was always going to poll well. I never thought he would win it, but there you go.

I have very little time for the filth but it is far too easy to say the rest are duds and Judd hogs the vote, he is a star and plays inside football that DESERVES to catch votes.

I can't understand why people want to slag Judd.

Jaded, spin? What spin is he throwing? You seem to be sure of Judd's reasons being purely monetary? Is that wrong that he looked to seek the most financially rewarding offer? Wanting to be able to set himself and his family up for life? Is that selfish? To who? MFC supporters?

And who does he owe any right to, to tell the full truth behind his move and choice anyway? His wife and family and that is about it, to a lesser extent maybe even some at WCE, other than that he owes you and everyone, nothing.

The ying and yang of the Judd comments today! GNF, you are spot on. He is a champion footballer. He was always going to poll well. I never thought he would win it, but there you go.

I have very little time for the filth but it is far too easy to say the rest are duds and Judd hogs the vote, he is a star and plays inside football that DESERVES to catch votes.

I can't understand why people want to slag Judd.

Jaded, spin? What spin is he throwing? You seem to be sure of Judd's reasons being purely monetary? Is that wrong that he looked to seek the most financially rewarding offer? Wanting to be able to set himself and his family up for life? Is that selfish? To who? MFC supporters?

And who does he owe any right to, to tell the full truth behind his move and choice anyway? His wife and family and that is about it, to a lesser extent maybe even some at WCE, other than that he owes you and everyone, nothing.

Does he have a family

What is wrong with thinking he shouldn't have won. Some of his three votes were laughable.

Does he have a family

What is wrong with thinking he shouldn't have won. Some of his three votes were laughable.

Which ones?

Personally I didn't think Scull deserved 3 votes against the Bulldogs. Losing team, half his possessions in one quarter, worth 3 votes? Would have though 1 for sure, 2 if he was lucky. That said I am stoked for the kid to get rewarded with a BOG for the match.

Oh boy, I have a feeling I'm going to pay for this one!!!!

Edit - the bit in italics. Had to try and save myself somehow!

Edited September 21, 201014 yr by billy2803

Judd is a class act both on and off the field. He enriches our game. He is a credit to himself, his club and the AFL. He is an outstanding character and footballer who I have had the privilege of getting to know on a personal level. His reasons for choosing Carlton over Melbourne was only a result of 2007 being the start of the great Melbourne rebuild rather than the end (like Carlton). If he had of come to the Dees we would not have the list we have now and still be as far away from a premiership as we have ever been. He did not go to Carlton for the money. In the end there was very little monetary difference between the Melbourne and Carlton offers and associated offer (Melbourne had a Visy lined up as well). Juddy once told me that he left the meeting with Stynes and Lyon rang up Bec and said "I am going to Melbourne". Some time after this reality set in. He wants to win a Premiership and mark my words if Juddy had come to Melbourne at the end of 2007 he and the MFC would not have any chance of winning a premiership in his career. Give credit to the guy for doing the right thing by us and himself.

I have watched a couple Melbourne games with Juddy and I can report he still has a soft spot for our team. (No he will never play for us.) He was speaking highly of Frawley in 2008 before most on this site could see the talent. He was no fan of Robo (dropped to the ground too much, no defensive pressure), but rates Trengrove the highest of all our young guns. He thinks Melbourne is now a potential premiership list but warns me that it is going to take much longer than we would like to think.

Those who are paying Juddy out should stop. It sounds like sour grapes. You are discrediting yourselves.

Congratulations on a well deserved second Brownlow Juddy!

Wouldn't he have gone to Collingwood if he wanted a premiership. Carlton are no closer than us.

I think you'll find that money motivates the man.

Lets look at a few Home Truths on Chris Judd shall we....Firstly i think Chris would have loved to play for the Demons, but when the Poo hit the fan at Wet Coke we were in no position to lure such a player.

5-6 million in debt and growing. Still training at the Pathetic junction oval (by far the worst in the league at the time) a board that was tired and Bereft of ideas, who i will say tried dam hard, but ultimately failed)

If Chris Judd had come to visit Melbourne 12 months later i think it would have been a very different story.

That Being said i want to see the MFC smash Carlton regularly while he is playing-That includes september.

I don't know what was said inside the Club after Chris declined our offer, but maybe it was the First move when the Club realized that the Big Change had to be made.

But as i said, i think Judd leaving Wet Coke was 12 months too early for the MFC.

Just my 20 cents worth......

All this proves is that stats don't mean anything....

Collingwood won games because of a team effort from multiple star/superstar players

Carlton snuck into the finals because of 1 player, a superstar of the game

In all honesty, Judd 100% deserves his brownlow like everyone always does, he carried a team on dodgey shoulders

Just like Bartel deserved it even though he wasn't as flashy as Ablett

Just as Cooney deserved it being the star of a top 4 team

Just like Woewodin deserved it for being one of the reasons we were able to rech a grand final in 2000

Just like Goodes deserved it in a year they made the grand final

Every year people will whinge and say so and so was better etc.

End of the day in 30 years people won't be thinking about who 'should' have won. They will think about who actually won.

from bigfooty

http://i56.tinypic.com/15zjdoo.jpg

Priceless

Wouldn't he have gone to Collingwood if he wanted a premiership. Carlton are no closer than us.

I think you'll find that money motivates the man.

Simply, WC would not deal with Collingwood. When forced were not prepared to trade 2 first round draft picks (or equivalent) and could not fit Juddy into their salary cap.

Judd is a class act both on and off the field. He enriches our game. He is a credit to himself, his club and the AFL. He is an outstanding character and footballer who I have had the privilege of getting to know on a personal level. His reasons for choosing Carlton over Melbourne was only a result of 2007 being the start of the great Melbourne rebuild rather than the end (like Carlton). If he had of come to the Dees we would not have the list we have now and still be as far away from a premiership as we have ever been. He did not go to Carlton for the money. In the end there was very little monetary difference between the Melbourne and Carlton offers and associated offer (Melbourne had a Visy lined up as well). Juddy once told me that he left the meeting with Stynes and Lyon rang up Bec and said "I am going to Melbourne". Some time after this reality set in. He wants to win a Premiership and mark my words if Juddy had come to Melbourne at the end of 2007 he and the MFC would not have any chance of winning a premiership in his career. Give credit to the guy for doing the right thing by us and himself.

I have watched a couple Melbourne games with Juddy and I can report he still has a soft spot for our team. (No he will never play for us.) He was speaking highly of Frawley in 2008 before most on this site could see the talent. He was no fan of Robo (dropped to the ground too much, no defensive pressure), but rates Trengrove the highest of all our young guns. He thinks Melbourne is now a potential premiership list but warns me that it is going to take much longer than we would like to think.

Those who are paying Juddy out should stop. It sounds like sour grapes. You are discrediting yourselves.

Congratulations on a well deserved second Brownlow Juddy!

Just a couple of loose ends:-

1. I thought Garry Lyon but not Jimmy was involved in the negotiations to get Judd. Surprised therefore that there was a meeting involving him at that time because Jim didn't become President till mid 2008, and

2. Surprised also that Visy would have been involved in a commercial arrangement with Melbourne at that time given that Dick Pratt was the boss of both Carlton and Visy. Actually, more than surprised - amazed!

Just a couple of loose ends:-

1. I thought Garry Lyon but not Jimmy was involved in the negotiations to get Judd. Surprised therefore that there was a meeting involving him at that time because Jim didn't become President till mid 2008, and

2. Surprised also that Visy would have been involved in a commercial arrangement with Melbourne at that time given that Dick Pratt was the boss of both Carlton and Visy. Actually, more than surprised - amazed!

In Reply:

1. Yes I can confirm the meeting was with Jim and Gary despite Jim not yet being President yet. Others were also involved.

2. I never said that the commercial deal was with Visy. I said it was a Visy like deal. It was with another company in which a member of our previous board was closely associated with. I know more but would prefer to leave it at this.

I am not on hear big noting myself rather just giving you infomation I think members would be interested in and also I get fed up with the [censored] which I constantly hear on here about Juddy. If you choose not to beleive me thats fine.

Judd is a class act both on and off the field. He enriches our game. He is a credit to himself, his club and the AFL. He is an outstanding character and footballer who I have had the privilege of getting to know on a personal level. His reasons for choosing Carlton over Melbourne was only a result of 2007 being the start of the great Melbourne rebuild rather than the end (like Carlton). If he had of come to the Dees we would not have the list we have now and still be as far away from a premiership as we have ever been. He did not go to Carlton for the money. In the end there was very little monetary difference between the Melbourne and Carlton offers and associated offer (Melbourne had a Visy lined up as well). Juddy once told me that he left the meeting with Stynes and Lyon rang up Bec and said "I am going to Melbourne". Some time after this reality set in. He wants to win a Premiership and mark my words if Juddy had come to Melbourne at the end of 2007 he and the MFC would not have any chance of winning a premiership in his career. Give credit to the guy for doing the right thing by us and himself.

I have watched a couple Melbourne games with Juddy and I can report he still has a soft spot for our team. (No he will never play for us.) He was speaking highly of Frawley in 2008 before most on this site could see the talent. He was no fan of Robo (dropped to the ground too much, no defensive pressure), but rates Trengrove the highest of all our young guns. He thinks Melbourne is now a potential premiership list but warns me that it is going to take much longer than we would like to think.

Those who are paying Juddy out should stop. It sounds like sour grapes. You are discrediting yourselves.

Congratulations on a well deserved second Brownlow Juddy!

Let's not confuse outcomes with intentions here. It is not as if we should erect a statue to Juddy: 'from the Demons, with love'. He was hardly thinking of our well-being when he chose to sign on with the Cheats.

He is a glorified Greg Williams who drives a Prius. In other words, he is a filthy merc. And he can take that 'soft spot' for us and get Twiggers to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

Edited September 21, 201014 yr by Biffinator

In Reply:

1. Yes I can confirm the meeting was with Jim and Gary despite Jim not yet being President yet. Others were also involved.

2. I never said that the commercial deal was with Visy. I said it was a Visy like deal. It was with another company in which a member of our previous board was closely associated with. I know more but would prefer to leave it at this.

I am not on hear big noting myself rather just giving you infomation I think members would be interested in and also I get fed up with the [censored] which I constantly hear on here about Juddy. If you choose not to beleive me thats fine.

Juddies Buddy?

Let's not confuse outcomes with intentions here. It is not as if we should erect a statue to Juddy: 'from the Demons, with love'. He was hardly thinking of our well-being when he chose to sign on with the Cheats.

He is a glorified Greg Williams who drives a Prius. In other words, he is a filthy merc. And he can take that 'soft spot' for us and get Twiggers to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

Bingo.

People who are disappointed with Judd's win should just accept that the way the Brownlow is voted for, this problem is bound to occur, and that by changing the scoring method or anything, it's not the Brownlow anymore. But what if there were a second, side-award given to the highest vote getter from the team which scored the highest number of votes. In this case, I think that would have been Swan. This way you reward players from good teams even when there's a surprise god amongst worms, so to speak (as Judd was, compared to his team-mates.)

In Reply:

1. Yes I can confirm the meeting was with Jim and Gary despite Jim not yet being President yet. Others were also involved.

2. I never said that the commercial deal was with Visy. I said it was a Visy like deal. It was with another company in which a member of our previous board was closely associated with. I know more but would prefer to leave it at this.

I am not on hear big noting myself rather just giving you infomation I think members would be interested in and also I get fed up with the [censored] which I constantly hear on here about Juddy. If you choose not to beleive me thats fine.

Ok ... I was wrong. You have changed my mind. What you say sounds like perfect sense to me.

I am not on hear big noting myself rather just giving you infomation I think members would be interested in and also I get fed up with the [censored] which I constantly hear on here about Juddy. If you choose not to beleive me thats fine.

You've been a very good advocate here for the Chris Judd camp and I'm not doubting you when you say that you know him and that he's given you his version of the events of three years ago.

That version is however, at odds with the information passed on to me and to others by a then board member of Carlton who confirmed that an official of the club had been in contact with Judd and his management as early as June 2007 and that by early August 2007 he was "in the bag". The same board member told me at the time (i.e about three weeks before the end of the home and away season) that a number of players were being put on ice for the rest of the year (including Fevola), that Melbourne was "a monty"'to win it's Round 22 game against Carlton and that getting the priority draft pick was crucial to the club's strategy of getting Judd across to the club. All of this took place before Judd announced his intention to leave West Coast.

Subsequently, I met the same board member when the Judd decision was imminent. At that time, the decision was between the four clubs which he was going to interview - Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon and Melbourne. I think the media had the Pies as the favourite to win his services with us as a chance followed by the Blues. Essendon was a rank outsider. The Carlton official was adamant that Judd was in the bag, that none of the other clubs were capable of matching the financial package offered and he scoffed at the possibility that he could end up at Melbourne. He said we were "wasting our time".

In the end, everything he said proved to be true. Media reports later confirmed that Steven Icke had met Judd in Perth in July. Judd's revelation about his friendship with Greg Swann being the main factor getting him to the club further confirms that scenario. The reports of the Carlton financial deal also tend to support the fact that it was far superior to our offer and we're all in agreement that the lame story about Melbourne's poor training facilities being the deal breaker was, in your words "bullshit" (so how do we know what parts of the rest of his story are bullshit?).

I've been convinced ever since that the entire process of meeting four clubs was a charade. It was all a business decision that he and his management were entitled to make but the way it was handled by his management was poor from my perspective. The MFC and its supporters were treated with contempt and that's why I always greet Judd's "I supported the Dees as a kid" line with the same amount of contempt.

Incidentally, I was against us chasing Judd in the first place back then because I also believed that if we were going to rebuild, it had to be a total process and not one based upon putting most of our eggs in the Judd basket and that was leaving aside the enormous cost in financial terms to get him. There were also salary cap issues which I believed might exist at the time but which now, thanks to new interpretations of what comes under total player payments, have been airbrushed out of the equation. Dollar for dollar, it's gratifying to know that Juddy's almost as good an environmental ambassador as he is a footballer. Anyway, given the financial woes that the club was suffering from at the time, I would suggest that the securing of Judd might well have bankrupted us and we might have been preparing for 2011 as the Gold Coast Demons.

Bottom line: In hindsight, while Judd was and is a great footballer, he wasn't a good fit for Melbourne in 2008 and Melbourne wasn't a good fit for Judd either. And, I'm happy with the fact that he went to Carlton and not to us.

Thanks WJ for re-establishing a truer perspective.

Thanks WJ for re-establishing a truer perspective.

So, is this (WJ's post) why you disagree with his winning of the Brownlow?

You've been a very good advocate here for the Chris Judd camp and I'm not doubting you when you say that you know him and that he's given you his version of the events of three years ago.

That version is however, at odds with the information passed on to me and to others by a then board member of Carlton who confirmed that an official of the club had been in contact with Judd and his management as early as June 2007 and that by early August 2007 he was "in the bag". The same board member told me at the time (i.e about three weeks before the end of the home and away season) that a number of players were being put on ice for the rest of the year (including Fevola), that Melbourne was "a monty"'to win it's Round 22 game against Carlton and that getting the priority draft pick was crucial to the club's strategy of getting Judd across to the club. All of this took place before Judd announced his intention to leave West Coast.

Subsequently, I met the same board member when the Judd decision was imminent. At that time, the decision was between the four clubs which he was going to interview - Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon and Melbourne. I think the media had the Pies as the favourite to win his services with us as a chance followed by the Blues. Essendon was a rank outsider. The Carlton official was adamant that Judd was in the bag, that none of the other clubs were capable of matching the financial package offered and he scoffed at the possibility that he could end up at Melbourne. He said we were "wasting our time".

In the end, everything he said proved to be true. Media reports later confirmed that Steven Icke had met Judd in Perth in July. Judd's revelation about his friendship with Greg Swann being the main factor getting him to the club further confirms that scenario. The reports of the Carlton financial deal also tend to support the fact that it was far superior to our offer and we're all in agreement that the lame story about Melbourne's poor training facilities being the deal breaker was, in your words "[censored]" (so how do we know what parts of the rest of his story are [censored]?).

I've been convinced ever since that the entire process of meeting four clubs was a charade. It was all a business decision that he and his management were entitled to make but the way it was handled by his management was poor from my perspective. The MFC and its supporters were treated with contempt and that's why I always greet Judd's "I supported the Dees as a kid" line with the same amount of contempt.

Incidentally, I was against us chasing Judd in the first place back then because I also believed that if we were going to rebuild, it had to be a total process and not one based upon putting most of our eggs in the Judd basket and that was leaving aside the enormous cost in financial terms to get him. There were also salary cap issues which I believed might exist at the time but which now, thanks to new interpretations of what comes under total player payments, have been airbrushed out of the equation. Dollar for dollar, it's gratifying to know that Juddy's almost as good an environmental ambassador as he is a footballer. Anyway, given the financial woes that the club was suffering from at the time, I would suggest that the securing of Judd might well have bankrupted us and we might have been preparing for 2011 as the Gold Coast Demons.

Bottom line: In hindsight, while Judd was and is a great footballer, he wasn't a good fit for Melbourne in 2008 and Melbourne wasn't a good fit for Judd either. And, I'm happy with the fact that he went to Carlton and not to us.

Thanks WJ,

You may be surprised but I agree with most of what you say here, I just have a different slant on it. By joining our information we can probably get a pretty good idea what actually happened. It is clear that Juddy met Carlton before leaving Perth and it is also clear that Carlton were front runner from the beginning. However, I have been told (but cant confirm) that Melbourne and probably others had also met Juddy during 2007. I don't believe the interview process was a charade, I am convinced it was not. There was no point in having an interview process if he had of already made up him mind. He is not the sort of person who puts on a media show for the sake of it, he is not the sort of person who bullshits around, to the contrary he goes to incredible lengths to keep out of the public eye as much as possible. He does the absolute minimum public appearances that he can get away with, even going as far as refusing to sell his Wedding Photos. I also don't believe that Juddy has simply lied to me about wanting to go to the Dees after his interview, but the reality was that we were not in the right spot.

At the end of the day Carlton were probably front runner and after the interview process and the reality of where Melbourne was at, Carlton was confirmed.

The right decision was made for all.

Judd is a great footballer.

Judd is a pretty good person (although it seems that sometimes he says what people want to hear - don't we all?)

Judd deserves to win the Brownlow.

But Judd deserves to go down in history as the best & fairest player in the AFL for season 2010???? That's the problem.

To say "yes" to this last statement, you need to believe that the umpires are better judges of "best & fairest" than all the players, all the coaches, the All-Australian selectors yes he got in, but only on the bench) and every single media commentator, none of whom had Judd even in their top 3.

The Brownlow is no longer the best measure of "best & fairest", but is the best measure only of who appeals most to the umpires. As it always has been. It's just that it has the aura that goes with history and tradition.

So, is this (WJ's post) why you disagree with his winning of the Brownlow?

I was commenting that Wjs post is a truer version of the events leading to Judds choice of Carlton . you're just a bit challenged obviously

Dog+Bone> you

give it a rest Billy .. Or are you working on vol 3

Wow!! A bombshell. Judd actually started speaking with Carlton in 2007.

Does anyone believe that any player or at least their manager doesn't start to talk to others, even before it may become public knowledge?

Since when does he owe the MFC a damn thing? It is his right to look for the best deal financially.

He spoke well with his acceptance speech and the only reason he mentioned the "I barracked for the Demons" was because of the night dedicating much time to Jim Stynes, which they did very well I would add.

The fact that Stynes mentioned the importance of family, friends etc in comparison to football and the fact that Judd won on the night, it allowed for some synergy from Judd's comments earlier in his career about footballers being role models.

If Stynes wasn't there, Judd would not have made a single mention of MFC. But he had to, to explain to some extent how he felt about Jim.

An out and out star of the game, I enjoy watching him play fantastic football. Good luck to him that he secured the most fiscal deal available to him.

As as been pointed out, it was never going to be good for either Judd or MFC to come together. Can't people just accept that he is a great player to watch and let him be? At least he accentuates how average the rest of the filth are!