David Hale

[sylvinator 96]

I personally think he'd be an ordinary acquisition.

Yes, he's the TYPE of player we need. But I think a lot of people are being convinced that bc he's the right size and shape that he'll be a good answer. He won't.

He wasn't moved out of the ruck bc of McIntosh and Goldstein, he was moved out of the ruck bc he's a god-aweful ruckman. And as a forward, he very rarely kicked goals, especially of late.

He's not young, he's no good below his knees.

He's just not a very good player. I've got a lot of feedback from North supporters i'm friends with who say he's a spud of the highest order, most neutral supporters rate PJ ahead of him.

If we want another ok, ordinary 200cm player, that will fill a hole, then we should get him. If we want quality, we'll stay away and develop our own or go for a genuinely good player, like Mitch Clarke.

[Red Sox 2]

I personally think he'd be an ordinary acquisition.

Yes, he's the TYPE of player we need. But I think a lot of people are being convinced that bc he's the right size and shape that he'll be a good answer. He won't.

He wasn't moved out of the ruck bc of McIntosh and Goldstein, he was moved out of the ruck bc he's a god-aweful ruckman. And as a forward, he very rarely kicked goals, especially of late.

He's not young, he's no good below his knees.

He's just not a very good player. I've got a lot of feedback from North supporters i'm friends with who say he's a spud of the highest order, most neutral supporters rate PJ ahead of him.

If we want another ok, ordinary 200cm player, that will fill a hole, then we should get him. If we want quality, we'll stay away and develop our own or go for a genuinely good player, like Mitch Clarke.

17 goals from 12 games this year, that's not a bad return. Interesting that he is from Qld but heard that he is seeking a trade that keeps him in Melb.

Having kicked 119 goals from 129 games he seems to have a bit more going for him, especially forward, than PJ. Jamar too has shown he can take a mark going forward. I think they could work ok together, but it would depend on what we had to give up.

Our second pick is all I would be willing to part with for him, and that would make it a tough trade.

[sylvinator 96]

17 goals from 12 games this year, that's not a bad return. Interesting that he is from Qld but heard that he is seeking a trade that keeps him in Melb.

Having kicked 119 goals from 129 games he seems to have a bit more going for him, especially forward, than PJ. Jamar too has shown he can take a mark going forward. I think they could work ok together, but it would depend on what we had to give up.

Our second pick is all I would be willing to part with for him, and that would make it a tough trade.

17 goals from 12 goals playing pretty much 95% in the forward line and playing deep forward is a very poor return, especially for a team that is actually winning quite regularly.

He is not a good player, at best he's an average player. and he's not young either.

i think it would be a mistake to get him, bc it would only be a bandaid.

If we want a big forward we want it to be a real positive addition to our team, not an ok player who probably will play half of the season at vfl level.

[Red Sox 2]

17 goals from 12 goals playing pretty much 95% in the forward line and playing deep forward is a very poor return, especially for a team that is actually winning quite regularly.

He is not a good player, at best he's an average player. and he's not young either.

i think it would be a mistake to get him, bc it would only be a bandaid.

If we want a big forward we want it to be a real positive addition to our team, not an ok player who probably will play half of the season at vfl level.

I certainly can't lay claim to having paid a whole lot of attention to him. But if you say he was playing 95% deep then I'll take your word for it.

I would've thought he had played a fair bit more ruck, considering players like Goldstein had taken his place & kicked a few goals also.

Look, I'm not all for this bloke, I reckon that Fitpatrick is a chance to get some game time next year, but he and Gawn will still take some time. For little loss I believe he could definitely be a better option in tandem with Jamar than PJ.

[sylvinator 96]

I certainly can't lay claim to having paid a whole lot of attention to him. But if you say he was playing 95% deep then I'll take your word for it.

I would've thought he had played a fair bit more ruck, considering players like Goldstein had taken his place & kicked a few goals also.

Look, I'm not all for this bloke, I reckon that Fitpatrick is a chance to get some game time next year, but he and Gawn will still take some time. For little loss I believe he could definitely be a better option in tandem with Jamar than PJ.

my point isn't that Hale won't be better than PJ. He probably would.

My point is that if you're in the market for a big forward who can play ruck, let's get a really quality one and turn a weakness into a weapon. I'd prefer that than getting a couple of ok players who might do some reasonable jobs for us every now and then. We've had a few of them in the past, and they've been servicable (Ben Holland, PJ, even Meesan was brought in as a bandaid fix), but we should be on the look out for real quality

[sylvinator 96]

Or even better, draft our own key forward. I've recently become a very big fan of Lucas Cook

[Red Sox 2]

my point isn't that Hale won't be better than PJ. He probably would.

My point is that if you're in the market for a big forward who can play ruck, let's get a really quality one and turn a weakness into a weapon. I'd prefer that than getting a couple of ok players who might do some reasonable jobs for us every now and then. We've had a few of them in the past, and they've been servicable (Ben Holland, PJ, even Meesan was brought in as a bandaid fix), but we should be on the look out for real quality

Or even better, draft our own key forward. I've recently become a very big fan of Lucas Cook

Yes, I can see the logic in concerning ourselves more with the 'deep' key forward. I think we will end up with Darling. Besides who it is, a deep forward around the others we currently have, would be the final piece in the forward line. Fitpatrick will play games and get time deep around that structure also.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Demon Hill

[dee-luded 2,959]

17 goals from 12 games this year, that's not a bad return. Interesting that he is from Qld but heard that he is seeking a trade that keeps him in Melb.

Having kicked 119 goals from 129 games he seems to have a bit more going for him, especially forward, than PJ. Jamar too has shown he can take a mark going forward. I think they could work ok together, but it would depend on what we had to give up.

Our second pick is all I would be willing to part with for him, and that would make it a tough trade.

2nd Rnd pick is too much. We need it. And hopefully another 2nd Rnd pick comes our way.

[Red Sox 2]

2nd Rnd pick is too much. We need it. And hopefully another 2nd Rnd pick comes our way.

Yep, am sold on the alternative. No David Hale!

[Kit Walker 225]

Yep, am sold on the alternative. No David Hale!

Our second round pick is pick 32 in an already weakened draft. All else being equal (ie. reasonable contractual demands), I'd bite the North rep's hand off to take that deal. I tend to think it may be a bit more expensive than that but who knows.

The reality is we lack a big bodied goal-kicking forward and a decent second ruckman. Unless you have more faith in PJ than I do, or think Newton may step up to the plate in this role, the next options are untried/untested kids in Spencer, Gawn and Fitzpatrick - none of whom are likely to make an impact in the next two years. Neither would a new draftee in this position - certainly not at pick 32.

If Hale was genuine A-Grade at this point, he wouldn't be on the table. Not for pick 32 and not for pick 12. He does have talent though, is only 26 and is available. Just as importantly I think he fills a serious need we have.

[old55 23,353]

You might be expecting a bit much from Hale's tackling when he's played at full-forward compared to playing in the middle.

Also worth noting that Leigh Brown is 194cm to Hale's 201cm. Brown plays all over the ground as well, giving more opportunities to tackle.

Ryder is also 197cm and probably one of the most athletic big men in the game who again spends most of his time in the middle. Again, more opportunities to tackle.

Clark is the only one comparable to Hale in terms of height given he is 200cm, yet he also plays more of a roaming ruckmen type role. I'm not sure if your stats are career averages or just from last year, but i fully expect that if Hale played in the centre of the ground and not a full-forward for the Kanagas then he would have had more tackles.

Anyway, i'd feel pretty confident the club could get him to improve on his tackling if it was a concern.

Regardless, for mine he just ticks the right boxes for our lineup. Can play as a second ruck, go forward and kick goals, is another legitimately big body, and is reasonably mobile to play around the ground. He's worth a shot and would be a real upgrade over pj.

I agree he does tick a number of boxes but he doesn't tick them all if he can't apply defensive pressure. It's not helpful to say it's unreasonable to expect him to tackle because he's 201cm - if he can't do it then he's not the right player. You may have a point about opportunity to tackle because he plays deep - Kosi, Roughy and Hall are all in the 1-2 tackle range. My key point is that if he's not agile or quick enough to apply some defensive pressure then that can't be learnt and I'd be looking closely at this. We can't afford players who are weak links defensively in our forward line.

[Bonkers 994]

17 goals from 12 games this year, that's not a bad return. Interesting that he is from Qld but heard that he is seeking a trade that keeps him in Melb.

Having kicked 119 goals from 129 games he seems to have a bit more going for him, especially forward, than PJ. Jamar too has shown he can take a mark going forward. I think they could work ok together, but it would depend on what we had to give up.

Our second pick is all I would be willing to part with for him, and that would make it a tough trade.

I haven't seen too much of Hale but the fact that he can't get a game at the Kangaroos and from all reports on here that his quality is that of a VFL player I'de only be willing to give a pick after Rnd 3 of the draft or pick him up in the pre-season. In a couple of years Gawn & Fitzpatrick will be pushing for a spot in the side and probably take his spot anyway. A second round pick is still a pretty good pick and with that pick the club could gain a good U18 player.

I think if the club are going to be serious about picking up a quality 0-25m from goal KPF they should go hard at offering a trade with high picks & or a player swap to acquire proven quality or take no risk at all and try the rookie draft the same as Geelong has with J Pod. The only way to improve the list now is to bring in quality players, risk nothing at all and go through the rookie draft or develop what we have. Speculative picks on a player like Hale could end up bringing in more of what we already have with experiments like P.Johnson, Meesen & Martin.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Bonkers

[dee-luded 2,959]

Our second round pick is pick 32 in an already weakened draft. All else being equal (ie. reasonable contractual demands), I'd bite the North rep's hand off to take that deal. I tend to think it may be a bit more expensive than that but who knows.

The reality is we lack a big bodied goal-kicking forward and a decent second ruckman. Unless you have more faith in PJ than I do, or think Newton may step up to the plate in this role, the next options are untried/untested kids in Spencer, Gawn and Fitzpatrick - none of whom are likely to make an impact in the next two years. Neither would a new draftee in this position - certainly not at pick 32.

If Hale was genuine A-Grade at this point, he wouldn't be on the table. Not for pick 32 and not for pick 12. He does have talent though, is only 26 and is available. Just as importantly I think he fills a serious need we have.

People tried to say that last year as well.

Where was it that we picked up Gawn & Fitzpatrick again?

I'd try to get the 'Q' with a 3rd or 4th Rnder, or a J Charman as a very short termer, these would come cheaper than Hale who may well be a spud that could cost us a good future player to one of our future rivals.

Stay the long term course,, with cheap quick fixes along the way.

Edited September 15, 2010 by dee-luded

[old55 23,353]

If Josh Fraser's knee passed medical scrutiny I'd take at him depending on the price - assuming he's OOC.

I think he's a smart footballer and we want him to play fwd-ruck not #1 ruckman.

He's definitely a better player than Hale.

He doesn't have the physical presence of say the big Q but I'm unconvinced Q is a smart footballer or that he can mark overhead.

At 29 in 2011 Fraser could play 3-4 years - we'd probably need to offer him 3 years.

If he is OOC Collingwood have to trade realistically, if he's in contract forget it.

We have some players who may be looking for more opportunities that may appeal to them.

Edited September 15, 2010 by old55

[pm24 451]

I personally think he'd be an ordinary acquisition.

Yes, he's the TYPE of player we need. But I think a lot of people are being convinced that bc he's the right size and shape that he'll be a good answer. He won't.

He wasn't moved out of the ruck bc of McIntosh and Goldstein, he was moved out of the ruck bc he's a god-aweful ruckman. And as a forward, he very rarely kicked goals, especially of late.

Sylvinator, in this case i'd hate to say it but you are just plain wrong on the reasons why Hale was moved out of the ruck.

Here's what they say on the Nth Melbourne site:

Darren Crocker 2009 review:

With the retirement of Nathan Thompson, it was a perfect fit for Haley to come in and take on the responsibility of our key forward. But he had an indifferent year. His five-goal performance against Fremantle was his best haul. There was a period there when I took over where he was starting to mark the footy again. Against Sydney he took 10 marks but unfortunately kicked four points. Against Hawthorn he took nine marks in the wet down at Launceston. There were glimpses he was actually starting to get back into a little bit of form. Like his whole year, it was just really spasmodic and he couldn't have the consistent impact on games we were hoping for. We're really keen to make sure he can get back to where he was a year or so ago. He's a quality person so I can't see any reason why he can't get back to being a pretty important player for us.

So in other words, he was moved into the forward line as part of a structural decision to play the role that Nathan Thompson did. They had a glut of good ruckman, so they chose to try him in the forward line after he lead the teams goal-kicking in 2008.

I don't think we would have to give up much to get him either. It's not like he's a required player.

And would people stop going on about getting Mitch Clark!!! There's a snowflakes chance in hell that Brisbane would want to move him, and no financial need to do so with Rischitelli, Brennan and others moving.

[felixdacat 459]

Not a fan Pass!

[Fan in the outer 0]

I'd rather recruit his partner Pace, with a surname like that he might have some run....

[sylvinator 96]

LOL you actually think a North person is going to openly admit he was moved out of the ruck bc McIntosh and Goldstein surpassed him by a country mile.

I'm not dead-wrong, he's not a good ruckman, and that's why he hasn't played as a ruckman this season.

Oh, and he's not a particularly good forward either.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I'd rather recruit his partner Pace, with a surname like that he might have some run....

Touche`.

[Whispering_Jack 29,757]

I'd rather recruit his partner Pace, with a surname like that he might have some run....

Very good point. I saw Hale at close quarters a few weeks ago in the Qualifying Final when North Ballarat beat the Casey Scorpions. He's not only slow on the ground but he's very ordinary below the knees. Very sluggish and clumsy. As much as we might need a big bodied tall up there on the forward line, I can't see him fitting in all that well at Melbourne.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,726]

Melbourne targets North Melbourne Ruckman David Hale

According to the HUN, we're chasing David Hale in the trade period.

Could be a good acquistion as he can help Jamar out in the ruck, but also prove a target in the forward line. Kicked 38 goals in 2008 including a bag of 8 against Geelong. Also kicked 5 goals against Freo in 2009.Hale is an accurate kick at goal.

In Demonland tradition where we all overate MFC players and bag the crap out of all opposition players, I expect most people to be close minded to the idea of getting Hale.

[Kit Walker 225]

Melbourne targets North Melbourne Ruckman David Hale

According to the HUN, we're chasing David Hale in the trade period.

Could be a good acquistion as he can help Jamar out in the ruck, but also prove a target in the forward line. Kicked 38 goals in 2008 including a bag of 8 against Geelong. Also kicked 5 goals against Freo in 2009.Hale is an accurate kick at goal.

In Demonland tradition where we all overate MFC players and bag the crap out of all opposition players, I expect most people to be close minded to the idea of getting Hale.

I think it's fair to say that I'm not close minded to the idea given my previous views on the matter.

Obviously it's early stages in terms of working out what North and Hale are after but I think it's a good fit.

[beelzebub 23,313]

for whom ??

[Hannabal 4]

In the last 3 years the match committee and list management heads have hardly pulled a wrong rein. On this occasion they've taken leave of their senses.

Hale is a spud.

[GRUN DEE 69]

for whom ??

Pick 134!