Why has no one mentioned TRADING BARTRAM?????????

IMO we have many same type players to cover (or players that could develop into)... James Strauss is being developed as a similar type in the VFL, difference is he kicks the ball very well.

Before people have a go, lets look at his disposal and try and remember the last time you were not nervous when he had the ball.

I will miss his heart, and never give up attitude, but we need a touch of class coming out of the backline.

The same reason were not trading Garland or Jamar...

Bartram is atm is doing his job exceptional well and is a required player.

And how can you say Strauss can take his spot when he has barely proven him self at afl level, two games is all his played!

But yeah i do get nervous when he gets the ball.

The same reason were not trading Garland or Jamar...

Bartram is atm is doing his job exceptional well and is a required player.

And how can you say Strauss can take his spot when he has barely proven him self at afl level, two games is all his played!

But yeah i do get nervous when he gets the ball.

Someone will and can step up, we have depth.

Bartrams disposal kills us, i mean i love the guy and wish others had his heart but either he gets better or we get something out of a trade.

Junior will play on,he's in our best 10 and we need his experience in finals next year.If this was his last year his farewell game would be round 22 at the G,do you really think a player of Junior's calibre/class wouldn't be farewelled by Melbourne on the G for all of us to say thanks & goodbye.

You've got to be kidding me!!!

Bye bye Miller,Martin,Bell.

PJ definately plays next year.Russian does his knee in round 14,who steps in and takes on Ottens,Gardner,Jolly et al? Gawn,Meeson,Spencer,Fitzpatrick,Sylvia?

Give me a spell!!!

Ummn, I hope your right!

What has Martin done to stay.?

Answer: Was injured for all of 2010 and never, therefore, able to show anything. Besides, he is contracted for 2011 I believe. Good enough for you?

Bring on 2011 for Steffy Martin!

Edited August 18, 201015 yr by DeezMan

What has Martin done to stay.?

According to ID, he has a contract in 2011.

You got ask the same question about Newton though.

Someone will and can step up, we have depth.

Bartrams disposal kills us, i mean i love the guy and wish others had his heart but either he gets better or we get something out of a trade.

We dont have a player who plays the small defender role better than Bartram.

He has been very good this year. And another posters showed some stats revealing that his ineffective disposals rank in 23rd the Club.

A bad case of letting your perception cloud the reality.

And you would cut Spencer and Bartram but keep a crock in Meesen. Amazing list management.

We dont have a player who plays the small defender role better than Bartram.

He has been very good this year. And another posters showed some stats revealing that his ineffective disposals rank in 23rd the Club.

A bad case of letting your perception cloud the reality.

And you would cut Spencer and Bartram but keep a crock in Meesen. Amazing list management.

Agree. Whilst his disposals at times make us scream, he is playing his role very well. I suppose with Bartram, when he does stuff up, it is usually a howler as opposed to others who might turn it over from a quick pack kick or something similar. But keep him.

Plus we also need some experience on our list. With Junior and Bruce close to the end. More falls onto the likes of Davey, Green, Russian, Rivers, Bartram, Bate, Jones, Beamer et al to guide the youngsters.

Why do people keep calling for Bartram's head? How much must he do to prove himself? Yes, it's likely he'll be pushed out of the team in the next few years, but ATM he's our best small defender by a fair way. Give the man some credit.

We can't afford to lose Bartram. We have precious few small defenders with good closing speed & Experience, as well as a developed body.

Retire

0 - James Mcdonald (Veterans List)

Move from Senior List to Veterans List

1 - Brad Green

Delist

2 - Brad Miller

3 - Daniel Bell

Trade - Players who may seek greater senior opportunity elsewhere

4 - Cheney: solid half back who may see too many others in front of him at the Dees

5 - McNamara: running medium half back who like Cheney may see too many others in front of him

6 - Warnock: 26 year old solid full back who seems to have fallen out of our best 22 and may seek senior footy elsewhere. I would prefer he stays.

National Draft Pick

1 - First selection

2 - Second selection

3 - Third selection

Rookie Elevation

4 - McKenzie

5 - Spencer

Pre Season Draft

6 - PSD 1..only if Warnock goes in a trade.

Queries

Paul Johnson - Colin Wisbey got PJ right, a Not Quite Right Tall. But with Fitzpatrick and Gawn very raw and needing time at VFL level to develop he will most probably stay as an insurance policy. Spencer will hopefully have a big pre season and avoid injury and usurp PJ as our Nm 2 Ruckman.

We can't afford to lose Bartram. We have precious few small defenders with good closing speed & Experience, as well as a developed body.

I confess to being biased towards Bart's. It's easy to see the errors players make and remember them for it but it's worth a look at replays of some of the games this year to see the stuff he does off the ball. He seems to have a massive engine this year which is a plus as well. Running to space to recieve the ball in the last quarter against the Hawks then to kick that point, (I so knew that was coming) when most of the other players were tiring. He has had a great year I recon and good on him.

For the record. I like every one else that supports Melbourne, want a Premiership, and with that wish the players to deliver it, whom ever they may be. I am fortunate to have seen Melbourne win one as a kid but i think i would appreciate one more as an adult who has supported the club for nearly 5 decades.

Go Dee's.

Retire

0 - James Mcdonald (Veterans List)

Move from Senior List to Veterans List

1 - Brad Green

Delist

2 - Brad Miller

3 - Daniel Bell

Trade - Players who may seek greater senior opportunity elsewhere

4 - Cheney: solid half back who may see too many others in front of him at the Dees

5 - McNamara: running medium half back who like Cheney may see too many others in front of him

6 - Warnock: 26 year old solid full back who seems to have fallen out of our best 22 and may seek senior footy elsewhere. I would prefer he stays.

National Draft Pick

1 - First selection

2 - Second selection

3 - Third selection

Rookie Elevation

4 - McKenzie

5 - Spencer

Pre Season Draft

6 - PSD 1..only if Warnock goes in a trade.

Queries

Paul Johnson - Colin Wisbey got PJ right, a Not Quite Right Tall. But with Fitzpatrick and Gawn very raw and needing time at VFL level to develop he will most probably stay as an insurance policy. Spencer will hopefully have a big pre season and avoid injury and usurp PJ as our Nm 2 Ruckman.

Agree with most of that, although I'd hold on to Warnock. He's still a very good player and should remain on our list to swap in when Frawley/Rivers/Garland suffer injuries.

Agree with most of that, although I'd hold on to Warnock. He's still a very good player and should remain on our list to swap in when Frawley/Rivers/Garland suffer injuries.

And Cheney friggin' stays!!! He is a fantastic depth player. Very VERY solid in the VFL and restricts his mid-sized opponent to minimal goals.

And Cheney friggin' stays!!! He is a fantastic depth player. Very VERY solid in the VFL and restricts his mid-sized opponent to minimal goals.

I wouldn't be too fussed if Cheney stayed, although he merely seems to be a depth player and in time some of the kids and new draftees (I know he's young himself) will get a few more games and surpass him.

My point was more focused towards Warnock though.

Clint has had a great year but still needs to work on his kicking. The odd clanger hurts in modern possession football.

so does Frawley

Well which is it?? Does Bartram just kick the ball short to uncontested situations or does he chronically turn it over with bad kicking???

Nobody is trying to label him as some kind of playmaking laser boot. But to suggest that his spot on the list would be under threat due to some kind of atrociously high level of poor kicking would be wrong.

Unless it is a simple straightforward sideways kick to switch play to a wide open teammate, Bartram struggles.

Even those kicks he sometimes gets wrong, but by virtue of the space around those players they manage to cover for him so an ordinary kick doesn't get a bad stat.

If he has to actually make a forward movement with the footy, unless it is a basic chip kick right infront of him, his kicking isn't just poor, he really really struggles to choose the correct option.

It's like he has this innate ability to not see the best course of action and if it eventually turns out ok it is more out of luck than anything.

This is not every time he has the footy, but it is more often than not.

He is a liability with the footy in his hands.

You may not agree with me; if that is the case, then I ask you to watch him closely in our next game and see what decisions he makes with the footy in hand, the positions he gets the footy in, and the result of his kicks.

Edited August 18, 201015 yr by E25

Retire

0 - James Mcdonald (Veterans List)

Move from Senior List to Veterans List

1 - Brad Green

Delist

2 - Brad Miller

3 - Daniel Bell

Trade - Players who may seek greater senior opportunity elsewhere

4 - Cheney: solid half back who may see too many others in front of him at the Dees

5 - McNamara: running medium half back who like Cheney may see too many others in front of him

6 - Warnock: 26 year old solid full back who seems to have fallen out of our best 22 and may seek senior footy elsewhere. I would prefer he stays.

National Draft Pick

1 - First selection

2 - Second selection

3 - Third selection

Rookie Elevation

4 - McKenzie

5 - Spencer

Pre Season Draft

6 - PSD 1..only if Warnock goes in a trade.

Queries

Paul Johnson - Colin Wisbey got PJ right, a Not Quite Right Tall. But with Fitzpatrick and Gawn very raw and needing time at VFL level to develop he will most probably stay as an insurance policy. Spencer will hopefully have a big pre season and avoid injury and usurp PJ as our Nm 2 Ruckman.

Hard to argue with that, although Warnock is a keeper if at all possible. I would be inclined to try to find PJ a new home rather than him.

Retire

0 - James Mcdonald (Veterans List)

Move from Senior List to Veterans List

1 - Brad Green

Delist

2 - Brad Miller

3 - Daniel Bell

Trade - Players who may seek greater senior opportunity elsewhere

4 - Cheney: solid half back who may see too many others in front of him at the Dees

5 - McNamara: running medium half back who like Cheney may see too many others in front of him

6 - Warnock: 26 year old solid full back who seems to have fallen out of our best 22 and may seek senior footy elsewhere. I would prefer he stays.

National Draft Pick

1 - First selection

2 - Second selection

3 - Third selection

Rookie Elevation

4 - McKenzie

5 - Spencer

Pre Season Draft

6 - PSD 1..only if Warnock goes in a trade.

Queries

Paul Johnson - Colin Wisbey got PJ right, a Not Quite Right Tall. But with Fitzpatrick and Gawn very raw and needing time at VFL level to develop he will most probably stay as an insurance policy. Spencer will hopefully have a big pre season and avoid injury and usurp PJ as our Nm 2 Ruckman.

Moving beyond the fact that we can't honestly expect to trade out three depth defenders in one year, trading Cheney, Warnock and McNamara will mean getting some compensation - it doesn't just equate to a delisting straight up, i.e. we will get something in return to use.

Warnock, in this draft - probably early 2nd round

Cheney and McNamara - lucky to get a pick in the 40s or 50s.

Cheney and McNamara - lucky to get a pick in the 40s or 50s.

Cheney > MacNamara

times 50.

Cheney > MacNamara

times 50.

Not entirely fair...we haven't seen a lot of McNamara yet, given he was bottom-age in '07.

Not entirely fair...we haven't seen a lot of McNamara yet, given he was bottom-age in '07.

Cheney has proven soooo many times in the VFL Seniors how much more solid he is than everyone else (bar Warnock) down back. Kyle has been in the "best players" countless times and, with his personal performance, Gotch is beginning to say, "He just did it again" or words to that effect.

Cheney is making a difference to that Casey side and that's why he's been getting rewarded with games for the Dees in which he was a sound contributor (although not in our best 6-7). Need to hold onto this guy.

DEFENCE RANKING:

1. Frawley

2. Grimes

3. Rivers

4. Garland

5. Warnock

6. Bartram

7. MacDonald

8. Cheney

*have not included Bail/Morton/Bruce as backmen as they float up the ground a lot more.

I confess to being biased towards Bart's. It's easy to see the errors players make and remember them for it but it's worth a look at replays of some of the games this year to see the stuff he does off the ball. He seems to have a massive engine this year which is a plus as well. Running to space to recieve the ball in the last quarter against the Hawks then to kick that point, (I so knew that was coming) when most of the other players were tiring. He has had a great year I recon and good on him.

For the record. I like every one else that supports Melbourne, want a Premiership, and with that wish the players to deliver it, whom ever they may be. I am fortunate to have seen Melbourne win one as a kid but i think i would appreciate one more as an adult who has supported the club for nearly 5 decades.

Go Dee's.

Bart was recruited as having very good endurance.

I to want that premiership, & no token wins will appease that desire. That is why I have a suspicion, that in this talented But shallowish draft,,, that again we may well trade out, to try to get some early pick or 2. Just, as we have done before.

I'm of the opinion that our current list,whilst looking good, is not quite there Yet.

Bate, in my opinion, is an awkward one, he's not the fastest but is OK on a lead. Has hard hands, fumbles too much, so that could be a problem in Big Finals games. I don't see him as a future full time Forward, but may play higher up the ground. But I don't see him an elite Back either. But a very handy Utility player. As we move forward, I think he'll be overtaken from within our list. I wonder if he's at his highest point following last seasons form. We could get a good pick for him IMO at a team that is also in rebuild. Or starting.

IMO,,, we Need an Elite CHB, one with topline disposal & taking it on. Someone we can rotate with Chip. This sends Riv to 3rd, or Casey. (Remember we tried hard for Lake)

Warnock is well liked around the clubs, the rumours suggest,,,, and is 26ish (will be out of our window), but has only played 50 odd games. Unlikely to reach the 100 mark with us. A team lacking a strong defender who is in his age prime with plenty left could be let go to a team that is ahead of our window. (Blues/Hawks)

Bruce,,, the way he's playing I'd be happy to give him one more year. A couple of months ago i wouldn't. Either or,,, offer 1Yr/or look to GC-Suns.

The rucks, with Fitzpatrick going well so soon, we could go many ways, the status quo for a Year, or Delist/trade PJ, or trade Spencer. IMO with Fitzy going well & Spencer can at least compete & Martin sure to have a better year next (Newton could play the Miller role), we could roll the dice with the young ones. Or, we could move some out & draft a temp, as a cheap backup.

If we could get a top 15 pick for a Bate, or top 30 picks for any of the others, IMO we should trade.

There are spots we desperately need to fix, that will expose themselves in our future, we should recruit for those deficiencies Now.

Another Small & Medium defender, that Elite CHB, a top flite winger (a dasher), & that strong power type Forward as the 3rd string, not the first.

Cheney has proven soooo many times in the VFL Seniors how much more solid he is than everyone else (bar Warnock) down back. Kyle has been in the "best players" countless times and, with his personal performance, Gotch is beginning to say, "He just did it again" or words to that effect.

Cheney is making a difference to that Casey side and that's why he's been getting rewarded with games for the Dees in which he was a sound contributor (although not in our best 6-7). Need to hold onto this guy.

DEFENCE RANKING:

1. Frawley

2. Grimes

3. Rivers

4. Garland

5. Warnock

6. Bartram

7. MacDonald

8. Cheney

*have not included Bail/Morton/Bruce as backmen as they float up the ground a lot more.

Bartram in front of Macdonald dont think so

Bartram in front of Macdonald dont think so

Fair call. However, I think Bartram is VERY underrated.

Trade - Players who may seek greater senior opportunity elsewhere

4 - Cheney: solid half back who may see too many others in front of him at the Dees

5 - McNamara: running medium half back who like Cheney may see too many others in front of him

6 - Warnock: 26 year old solid full back who seems to have fallen out of our best 22 and may seek senior footy elsewhere. I would prefer he stays.

Why the wholesale spring clean of all our defensive depth???

Warnock is a keeper for mine.

Cheney and McNamara will have little trade value. We will probably keep Cheney who is contracted in 2011 and McNamara (but he is a chance to be delisted.

And Cheney friggin' stays!!! He is a fantastic depth player. Very VERY solid in the VFL and restricts his mid-sized opponent to minimal goals.

All the more reason to move him on. I dont want fantastic depth players who are tweeners that do well in the VFL but dont have the skills to elevate to the AFL.

I note you rank Cheney 8th in the defence set up. You should include Bruce to make Cheney 9th. Tells a story.

Bartram is underrated and some of the posts on this thread validate that.

Bartram in front of Macdonald dont think so

They play different roles. Bartram takes the small forward. MacDonald takes that mid size forwards. In form both have spots in side.

Am I the only person here who thinks Strauss is just as insecure for 2011 as McNamara is?

Both are young. Both have had injuries at some stage. Both have shown a bit in their 2/3 games at AFL level. Both have had some good VFL games but haven't really dominated.

Are people's judgements clouded by their draft positions (Pick 19 vs Pick 60-something)?

PS: I'm not having a go at Strauss, just trying to defend TMac somewhat.

McNamara's been on the list for a year longer, that's probably the difference. Like many I suspect Strauss won't make it, but there's enough doubt either way that he's deserving of more time.

McNamara's been on the list for three years and despite a bit of a purple patch last year, has never looked like getting close to the senior side. This year, in the year where things really should've come together for him based on his improvement last year, he's been nowhere near it. It's the textbook case of delisting, especially when spots on the list this year are extremely tight as it is.

To Borrow:

Retire

James Mcdonald (Veterans List)........Yep most likely

Move from Senior List to Veterans List

Brad Green...........................................as per

Delist

1 - Michael Newton... hot/cold on/off ...bit like a flickering light bulb, more annoying than useful

2 - Daniel Bell....should be playing seniors by now...but isnt ...and thats that

3 - John Meesen... sadly end of footy life (playing ) for this young man

4 - Tom McNamara...doesnt quite make the grade ( trade unlikely...but if touted )

Rookiie Elevations

J McKenzie... earned

J Spencer...time to play with the big boys

These are the seemingly straight forward list adjustments but do they in themselves cater to enough space for incomimgs? probably not.

Players teetering on edge must be P Johnson and B Miller. In Johno's favour is that he does still get a gig...Brad doesnt...must be shakey.

You have to ask what do Hughes and Healy really provide to the club on the R list ? probably 3/5 of not much....experiments without any real positive conclusions. You d have to think the club will look at seriously opening up space for more "'experiments". Keep in mind the club is also looking to pay 100%of the cap so it may well be looking to top up the pool in less expensive ways next year.

and then the spectre of something happening via the Suns...watch this space