Jack Watts 2008 AFL U18 Championships - Incase you haven't seen it .

Watts U18

The Watts 'bashers' may not be found but nothing new in you trotting out a one liner towards Melbourne supporters preferring to focus on positives. It does not necessarily equate to an excuse to do so.

Why should anyone have to bother with 'excuses' for a 19 yr old kid anyway? Mostly to respond to the negativity based pigeon holing of these kids that have played less than 20 games.

It may not be 'bashing' as you are so quick to jump on when used out of context, but it certainly is negative and these threads continually go down the same path.

You incorrectly identify those that are exhausted by this crap as excuse makers. Again, they may simply be Melbourne supporters that see & like to focus on the positives.

Well put DJ.

Watts will be a gun, and those doubting him will just end up with eggs on their faces... just like those who wrote off Garland, said Green was soft in the first 2-3 years of his career, that Sylvia will never dominate a game and said Frawley wouldn't make it and had terrible skills.

All those reasonable people who understand Watts is 196cm, 83kg and 19 yrs old, can repeat endlessly how patience is needed, but the impatient will never listen.

Anyone with half a brain can look through the champion tall forwards of today (Brown, Franklin, Bazza Hall, Jack Reiwoldt) and understand that Watts is actually on par of ahead of what these guys were in their second season and 19 yrs old. But alas, the impatient will not listen.

Unfortunately, there is no way to convince someone who's already made up their mind. So, us reasonable people wait until Watts puts on 15kg and plays 50 afl game, and when he eventually comes good, the impatient will come around and love him as well.

But for those who are willing to give a guy 1 year after VCE a chance... Watts very clearly has elite attributes, and that is what makes him a potential superstar.

Attributes

- His speed has tested as in the top 1% in the afl

- His athletacism has tested in the top 3% in the afl

- He clearly has incredible kicking skills around the ground

- His marking is very good, and when he builds a body so will his contested marking

- He hasn't been able to show it, but he actually has a very good set shot for goal when he is up on confidence

The ONLY, yes ONLY thing he is lacking atm, is 15kg, and about 35 games of AFL. When he gets those 2 things, he will eliminate the rough edges to his game, be less scared to put his body on the line, and become a champ.

Shame on those who write him off too early.

Do you have problems with comprehension Sylvinator? Or do you just not read the posts?

I don't perceive posters writing him off.

In fact those who are commenting on his weaknesses mostly seem to think he will end up a gun

Honest but fair appraisal is reasonable in a forum

or would you prefer the rose-coloured glasses approach?

Do you have problems with comprehension Sylvinator? Or do you just not read the posts?

I don't perceive posters writing him off.

In fact those who are commenting on his weaknesses mostly seem to think he will end up a gun

Honest but fair appraisal is reasonable in a forum

or would you prefer the rose-coloured glasses approach?

I have no problems with comprehension thanks, and my post was not intended to be directed at any particular poster and at no one particular comment.

I only believe it is necessary to remind people that it is only the unreasonable posters who unfairly criticise 19yr olds who have elite attributes, but are only lacking 2 things- afl experience and an afl body- which both will inevitably come.

Intelligent people realise that patience is therefore required, and it is a useless and unconstructive exercise to highlight every mistake Watts makes. Because 19yr olds make mistakes, especially when they are stick thin and 196cm tall. These rough edges will be ironed out with... take a guess... a couple more preseasons and 30-40 more afl games.

No rose-coloured glasses here.

To all those who agree with me, and i know there are plenty out there, don't try to convince those to demand on highlighting every mistake Watts makes. Have you ever successfully convinced someone who is adamant they are correct? Is it near impossible to do. So instead, just enjoy our up-n-coming list, and all those who unfairly criticised will end up joining the bandwagon eventually

Shame on those who write him off too early.

No-one on this forum has written him off.

No-one is 'bashing' him.

Some people are simply questioning, and rightfully so, the merits of playing him in the senior team ahead of, say, Bate or Miller, and whether he is really up to AFL standard at this moment.

I have no problems with comprehension thanks, and my post was not intended to be directed at any particular poster and at no one particular comment.

I only believe it is necessary to remind people that it is only the unreasonable posters who unfairly criticise 19yr olds who have elite attributes, but are only lacking 2 things- afl experience and an afl body- which both will inevitably come.

Intelligent people realise that patience is therefore required, and it is a useless and unconstructive exercise to highlight every mistake Watts makes. Because 19yr olds make mistakes, especially when they are stick thin and 196cm tall. These rough edges will be ironed out with... take a guess... a couple more preseasons and 30-40 more afl games.

No rose-coloured glasses here.

To all those who agree with me, and i know there are plenty out there, don't try to convince those to demand on highlighting every mistake Watts makes. Have you ever successfully convinced someone who is adamant they are correct? Is it near impossible to do. So instead, just enjoy our up-n-coming list, and all those who unfairly criticised will end up joining the bandwagon eventually

now you are just being patronising

No-one on this forum has written him off.

No-one is 'bashing' him.

Some people are simply questioning, and rightfully so, the merits of playing him in the senior team ahead of, say, Bate or Miller, and whether he is really up to AFL standard at this moment.

In my opinion, that question is really kind of a 'miss the point' question to begin with. Would Miller contribute more on game day this week than Watts? Who the hell cares, that question should not even be asked in the first place.

The facts are that we will not make finals this year, are nowhere near a premiership tilt this season, and Miller will almost certainly be delisted by year's end. Watts on the other hand, definitely will be around for our next premiership tilt. In fact, of all players on our list, in order to win a flag in the next 5 years, we probably rely on Watts coming good more than almost all other players on our list. For that reason, Watts' development is what must be prioritised this season. And developing him the quickest means getting him to 50 afl games asap. We know he has the potential and the skills, all he needs is a bigger body and afl games.

There are some people who think we should have stuck Watts in vfl to learn his craft most of this season. They might even be correct in saying he often hasn't played up to scratch. However, if we listen to those people, Watts would only have 3-4 afl games this season, and we would find that 4-5 years into his career he would still be a baby in terms of afl experience. The 'Bailey' way has resulted in Watts already being at around 20 games, and within 2 years, will be close to 60 afl games!

Sure, there must always be a balance of playing guys on merit, and doing what is right to player development. That is a given. But Watts is absolutely critical to our future chances of success. In the words of Cameron Schwab, "he is our number 1 asset".

Dean Bailey has been absolutely focused and driven in his plan to develop our future premiership team. I'm in his camp, and i am thankful those calling for his to be dropped from the senior team aren't running the club, because they are being a little short-sighted.

Jack Watts 2008 AFL U18 Championships - Incase you haven't seen it .

Watts U18

How good was that pick-up off the ground and goal against i think Tasmania?? His ball-handling skills below his knees are phenomenal for a player of his hight- his pickup and hanball to Miller in the Darwin game is another great example of this. I'm absolutely certain all that remains for him to become the complete package is 15kg and a bit of self confidence- i have no doubt we made the right choice in drafting him- he's gonna make it, just be patient!!

How good was that pick-up off the ground and goal against i think Tasmania?? His ball-handling skills below his knees are phenomenal for a player of his hight- his pickup and hanball to Miller in the Darwin game is another great example of this. I'm absolutely certain all that remains for him to become the complete package is 15kg and a bit of self confidence- i have no doubt we made the right choice in drafting him- he's gonna make it, just be patient!!

Agreed, loved that highlights package.

sorry if my argument seemed patronising to some, but its just that Watts' talent just seems so obvious to me. Sure, he only shows it in glimpses, but he will be one hell of a player one day.

No-one on this forum has written him off.

ditto

No-one is 'bashing' him.

ditto

Some people are simply questioning, and rightfully so, the merits of playing him in the senior team ahead of, say, Bate or Miller, and whether he is really up to AFL standard at this moment.

For the record I'm quite happy (at this stage) to pump games into him regardless

Do you have problems with comprehension Sylvinator? Or do you just not read the posts?

I don't perceive posters writing him off.

In fact those who are commenting on his weaknesses mostly seem to think he will end up a gun

Honest but fair appraisal is reasonable in a forum

or would you prefer the rose-coloured glasses approach?

I fear that we waste our efforts on those that eschew realistic appraisals and lack the comprehension to evaluate what's put before them.

As you say, those that have the temerity to highlight where Watts needs to improve are not (in the main) "writing him off", "bashing him", and nor are they incapable of recognising some of his sublime traits.

These great protectors of young Jack would have others believe that they are indeed the true believers and that 'the doubters' are either blind, impatient, or have some misguided agenda. You can almost hear them yelling from the rafters "I told you so" when he realises his preordained fate.

But what's their real legacy ? Yes, of course, they pointed out that any present deficiencies were expected traits of a basketball trained, skinny teenager, needing more beef and that he'll prove the doubters wrong. Bravo ! Acute insight there.

As you know, the "write him off at your peril" brigade only highlight their lack of understanding of the game and the ability to rationalise the communications of others. And when asked to name these "bashers" and provide the offending quotes they can't.

So, to make it clear and obvious, Watts has talent that one rarely sees. The club saw it, I saw it, most supporters see it now, or also saw it pre-draft. He has soft aspects to his game that are not the sole legacy of basketball and he needs to work hard to eradicate them if he's to fulfill his undoubted natural ability and become the star he can be. Phew !

# Bob, he's been timid in high marking contests in a few AFL games, a case in point the last game (one handed marking effort), as well as games for Casey. A Casey reference of mine can be found by a search on here.

# Bob, he's been timid in high marking contests in a few AFL games, a case in point the last game (one handed marking effort), as well as games for Casey. A Casey reference of mine can be found by a search on here.

But he was taking pack marks at under 18's, so it's not as though he can't, won't, or is incapable of doing the hard/brave/tough things.

At U18's he was probably one of, if not he biggest (tallest) kid in the side, so he had the confidence to do that. In his first AFL game he got smashed by 3 huge Collingwood players when he touched the ball for the first time.

I want to see what he's like with a proper pre-season. He has already filled his frame quite a bit for someone who had a modified pre-season due to back injuries, so it's going to be interesting to see how much bigger he can get this summer and what mental impact that has on his approach to the game.

Also the fact that he is totally exposed at AFL level due to where we are as a list (no big hard bodies up forward to protect him and take the hits), is either going to scare him more or help him develop that aspect of his game quicker. Bailey doesn't strike me as the sort of coach who will play serial offenders who don't take the hits (Dunn got dropped, Morton got dropped), so I'm gonna guess that if he doesn't start to put himself in the contest in a reasonable sense next season, he'll find himself back at Casey pretty quickly. Having said that, he will never be a Jonathan Brown CHF, so he won't bust open packs, take and distribute the punches and make his opponent shake with fear of physical retribution. He'll just burn them off with pace, agility and smarts. It's going to be so awesome

I do remember at one stage noticing Watts hit a contest and doing what he was chastised for not doing earlier in the season; he hit the contest and made body contact with his opponent taking him out of the contest with him.

In an earlier game he had failed to do that and when he didn't successfully gain possession of the ball and overran it, he had also left his man there to recover with the footy unopposed.

It was something simple, but good to see he is learning and starting to use his body like he should.

Can't remember when the incident was though.

Bob, he's been timid in high marking contests in a few AFL games, a case in point the last game (one handed marking effort), as well as games for Casey. A Casey reference of mine can be found by a search on here.

Watts will be a gun, and those doubting him will just end up with eggs on their faces... just like those who wrote off Garland, said Green was soft in the first 2-3 years of his career, that Sylvia will never dominate a game and said Frawley wouldn't make it and had terrible skills.

All those reasonable people who understand Watts is 196cm, 83kg and 19 yrs old, can repeat endlessly how patience is needed, but the impatient will never listen.

Anyone with half a brain can look through the champion tall forwards of today (Brown, Franklin, Bazza Hall, Jack Reiwoldt) and understand that Watts is actually on par of ahead of what these guys were in their second season and 19 yrs old. But alas, the impatient will not listen.

Unfortunately, there is no way to convince someone who's already made up their mind. So, us reasonable people wait until Watts puts on 15kg and plays 50 afl game, and when he eventually comes good, the impatient will come around and love him as well.

But for those who are willing to give a guy 1 year after VCE a chance... Watts very clearly has elite attributes, and that is what makes him a potential superstar.

Attributes

- His speed has tested as in the top 1% in the afl

- His athletacism has tested in the top 3% in the afl

- He clearly has incredible kicking skills around the ground

- His marking is very good, and when he builds a body so will his contested marking

- He hasn't been able to show it, but he actually has a very good set shot for goal when he is up on confidence

The ONLY, yes ONLY thing he is lacking atm, is 15kg, and about 35 games of AFL. When he gets those 2 things, he will eliminate the rough edges to his game, be less scared to put his body on the line, and become a champ.

Shame on those who write him off too early.

Post like this make me want to put my head through my screen

No-one has written him off. Stop being emotive. It is the discussion about a Melbourne footballer who clearly needs a stronger body and better ball focus.

We can discuss Bate's lack of agility and how we would like to see that improve but don't discuss Watts' flaws. I have no doubt that the kid knows he has them and is trying to address them.

Stop being so defensive, he is a footballer on our list that needs to make marked improvement to make the grade. We all want to see him make it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with critisising Jack when it's warranted, he has made a number of mistakes in pretty much every game that he's played, but at the same time the only people who can't see the improvement in Jack's game every time he takes the field are the one's who aren't looking for it!!! Jack is the kind of player who in order to grow as a footballer, needs to play against the best- what's he gonna learn in the VFL?? How to play the game at half pace?? He'll stagnate there very quickly. These kids are growing together and need to play together as much as possible to form a cohesive unit where they trust each other and can anticipate what each other will do on the field and when one of them is going through a form slump they should work through it in the seniors rather than going back to a minor league- it will not improve their game much if at all. I think Jack's a competitive animal who thrives on the best competition,adversity and being told that he can't do something, in the last 18 months he has been brutalised both on the field and in the press sometimes failry, most often not, but through it all he hasn't shied away for a second, hasn't given up- if there's a 19 year old in the league who's metally tougher than Jack can someone point him out to me- Intestinal fortitude isn't a stat that can be measured but it seems to me that Jack oozes it!! Stay tuned people- we are witnessing a star being born!!!!!

I don't think there's anything wrong with critisising Jack when it's warranted, he has made a number of mistakes in pretty much every game that he's played, but at the same time the only people who can't see the improvement in Jack's game every time he takes the field are the one's who aren't looking for it!!! Jack is the kind of player who in order to grow as a footballer, needs to play against the best- what's he gonna learn in the VFL?? How to play the game at half pace?? He'll stagnate there very quickly. These kids are growing together and need to play together as much as possible to form a cohesive unit where they trust each other and can anticipate what each other will do on the field and when one of them is going through a form slump they should work through it in the seniors rather than going back to a minor league- it will not improve their game much if at all. I think Jack's a competitive animal who thrives on the best competition,adversity and being told that he can't do something, in the last 18 months he has been brutalised both on the field and in the press sometimes failry, most often not, but through it all he hasn't shied away for a second, hasn't given up- if there's a 19 year old in the league who's metally tougher than Jack can someone point him out to me- Intestinal fortitude isn't a stat that can be measured but it seems to me that Jack oozes it!! Stay tuned people- we are witnessing a star being born!!!!!

puleeze, someone get me a bucket

this topic is going off the rails . . .

Wow, another Watts 4+ pager thread, who would have thought

I've mentioned this previously and I think it's still valid for Watts this season. I believe that the kid lacks confidence, it's coming slowly as he gets stronger and improves but he still has a bit to go.

There's probably a couple of area's of confidence where he's lacking. The obvious one is his onfield presence, he's still clearly timid when flying for marks, committing his body to a tackle or the ball. He has improved alot since the start of the season though and I'm confident this improvement will continue.

The other area of confidence which I think he's lacking is whether he truly believes that he deserves to be out there right now. What I'm talking about is his desire for the contest and the ball, this is what H is referring to (I think). In time he'll demand the ball from his teammates and fully commit to a pack mark or have a shot for goal if within range instead of passing to someone else. But right now he's probably got so much going through his head, from eveything I've already mentioned to all the instructions he's getting from the coaches and making sure he's doing the team things. He's not playing natural instinctive footy yet that's he's capable of because he may be second guessing himself, at AFL level you can't afford to do that.

He's still learning how to play as a forward at AFL level, but I'm confident that once he's learnt that and has the confidence in his body and ability he'll be a completley different player.

I fear that we waste our efforts on those that eschew realistic appraisals and lack the comprehension to evaluate what's put before them.

As you say, those that have the temerity to highlight where Watts needs to improve are not (in the main) "writing him off", "bashing him", and nor are they incapable of recognising some of his sublime traits.

These great protectors of young Jack would have others believe that they are indeed the true believers and that 'the doubters' are either blind, impatient, or have some misguided agenda. You can almost hear them yelling from the rafters "I told you so" when he realises his preordained fate.

But what's their real legacy ? Yes, of course, they pointed out that any present deficiencies were expected traits of a basketball trained, skinny teenager, needing more beef and that he'll prove the doubters wrong. Bravo ! Acute insight there.

As you know, the "write him off at your peril" brigade only highlight their lack of understanding of the game and the ability to rationalise the communications of others. And when asked to name these "bashers" and provide the offending quotes they can't.

So, to make it clear and obvious, Watts has talent that one rarely sees. The club saw it, I saw it, most supporters see it now, or also saw it pre-draft. He has soft aspects to his game that are not the sole legacy of basketball and he needs to work hard to eradicate them if he's to fulfill his undoubted natural ability and become the star he can be. Phew !

# Bob, he's been timid in high marking contests in a few AFL games, a case in point the last game (one handed marking effort), as well as games for Casey. A Casey reference of mine can be found by a search on here.

How low brow to have to add in a comment such as lack of understanding of the game to try to give any argument more strength.

You are speaking without any fact now Hannabal and just making generalised, unfounded comment. You are well aware the people have used the term 'basher' out of context, so what are you trying to prove champ?

You are correct when you say that your efforts are wasted because all you do is highlight the same point, over and over and over again. Like an insane person that expects a different result.

So, to make it clear and obvious, Watts has talent that one rarely sees. The club saw it, I saw it, most supporters see it now, or also saw it pre-draft. He has soft aspects to his game that are not the sole legacy of basketball and he needs to work hard to eradicate them if he's to fulfill his undoubted natural ability and become the star he can be. Phew !

Agree with that.

"it's the 10kg he lacks, that stops him crashing packs

But I've got my doubts and what if I'm right?"

In my opinion, that question is really kind of a 'miss the point' question to begin with. Would Miller contribute more on game day this week than Watts? Who the hell cares, that question should not even be asked in the first place.

The facts are that we will not make finals this year, are nowhere near a premiership tilt this season, and Miller will almost certainly be delisted by year's end. Watts on the other hand, definitely will be around for our next premiership tilt. In fact, of all players on our list, in order to win a flag in the next 5 years, we probably rely on Watts coming good more than almost all other players on our list. For that reason, Watts' development is what must be prioritised this season. And developing him the quickest means getting him to 50 afl games asap. We know he has the potential and the skills, all he needs is a bigger body and afl games.

There are some people who think we should have stuck Watts in vfl to learn his craft most of this season. They might even be correct in saying he often hasn't played up to scratch. However, if we listen to those people, Watts would only have 3-4 afl games this season, and we would find that 4-5 years into his career he would still be a baby in terms of afl experience. The 'Bailey' way has resulted in Watts already being at around 20 games, and within 2 years, will be close to 60 afl games!

Sure, there must always be a balance of playing guys on merit, and doing what is right to player development. That is a given. But Watts is absolutely critical to our future chances of success. In the words of Cameron Schwab, "he is our number 1 asset".

Dean Bailey has been absolutely focused and driven in his plan to develop our future premiership team. I'm in his camp, and i am thankful those calling for his to be dropped from the senior team aren't running the club, because they are being a little short-sighted.

Sure, these are all fair points. But it's also perfectly legitimate to want to field the best 22 AFL players any given week - Watts probably isn't in that at the moment. I'm certain he will be by 2012, if not next year.

Sure, these are all fair points. But it's also perfectly legitimate to want to field the best 22 AFL players any given week - Watts probably isn't in that at the moment. I'm certain he will be by 2012, if not next year.

Define 'legitimate.'

As I have been saying for a couple of years now - I am willing to lose matches in the short term for the long term benefit of the club.

Watts playing VFL does not help us get a flag. We need to pump games into our talent.

And he has been pretty servicable since the break. Done some good things.

He's done some good things, definitely, and I've been reasonably satisfied with his improvement...but with games like on the weekend, people are allowed to have their doubts about his short-term benefit. Some people like to think long-term, some like to think more short-term, which is 'legitimate' given we have been a chance for the finals in the last month (and still technically are).

He's done some good things, definitely, and I've been reasonably satisfied with his improvement...but with games like on the weekend, people are allowed to have their doubts about his short-term benefit. Some people like to think long-term, some like to think more short-term, which is 'legitimate' given we have been a chance for the finals in the last month (and still technically are).

A chance for finals, absolutley.

A chance to win one? Maybe.

A chance to get to a prelim? No.

Then what is the point?

I want to win a flag. What we do now will make a difference. Talent needs experience.

I'm sick of the 'he's still skinny' excuse. You're not going to become brave just because you put on a few kilo's. Petterd and Frawley never went through this '[censored] stage' and they were skinny when first drafted. Lynden Dunn has never taken a backward step despite being skinny. Danny Hughes too, despite only playing the 1 game never takes a backward step. He is slim. Bartram too in his first year. I think Watts will be a good player but being courageous will not be one of his assets. I would suggest a Riewoldt without the courage is his potential.