I will admit it. I have always been a critique of Bate and the type of player he is.

Was worried that the game is too fast for him and he didn't have enough strengths to cover his weaknesses.

Last night he blew my mind....

Fantastic Game Bate. Really stood up for us. Saw a bit of leadership from the big fella last night.

Brilliant effort.

So keen to watch the replay to see how he went. Sounded like he was clearly the best fwd on the ground.

So keen to watch the replay to see how he went. Sounded like he was clearly the best fwd on the ground.

Bate has always been an outstanding prospect for us. Gary Lyon reckons he'd be All Australian if he played for Geelong.

He always takes time to recover from injury and get warmed up, but he is a beuty.

Strong mark on the lead, intelligent player, good goal sense, 65m kick... he's a big part of our future!

He was "rangtastic" last night!

I never knew he could run that fast (his goal)!!

Great gut-busting game.

I never knew he could run that fast (his goal)!!

Great gut-busting game.

Bate is straight line fast. Just dont ask him to change direction.

I will admit it. I have always been a critique of Bate and the type of player he is.

Was worried that the game is too fast for him and he didn't have enough strengths to cover his weaknesses.

Last night he blew my mind....

Fantastic Game Bate. Really stood up for us. Saw a bit of leadership from the big fella last night.

Brilliant effort.

Good on yah mate. Excellent post. Its posts like this that make this forum a joy to read.

Did a lot right, but still made errors. Like choosing to kick on his right across goal, which was a turnover. The play was on, but we were under siege and didn't need to rush. He could have gone back and used up some more time before kicking long. He should know the chances of him hitting a target on his right are very low.

But he still played a great game.

I personally think Bate attracts way too much critism from fans. Whilst he attracts regular comments about him being slow (his poor turning circle) and poor below his knees, last nights game really highlights the apparent flaws in such critism (particularly in a wet contest). He's deceptively quick and shows considerable pace when in the clear of his opponents. I'd suggest that he would have kicked at least 1/2 his goals this year running on the move ahead of his opponent.

I've watched him particularly closely over the last 18mths (as he's one of the favourites of The O) and it's his continual presenting and running to space that I think is his greatest strength. He's certainly a good lead, but its the almost gut running where he will often present 2 or 3 times on the lead to attract the footy that is just so pleasing to watch. I lost count of the number of times last night he attracted the footy leading up from CHF, where he would often spoil the attempted mark of the Dogs or 'break the pack' of players and allow the ball to fall to ground level. His endurance to present, chase and tackle when the opposition has the ball, is what modern football is all about. Mark my words, his best is still to come.

Gary Lyon wrote a great article recently about the new modern forwards required for the game, highlighting the mobility of Matthew Bate. Watching his development and confidence in his game grow certainly is a joy to watch.

Edited May 8, 201015 yr by The O

bate will become even better when we get a power forward...

I personally think Bate attracts way too much critism from fans. Whilst he attracts regular comments about him being slow (his poor turning circle) and poor below his knees, last nights game really highlights the apparent flaws in such critism (particularly in a wet contest). He's deceptively quick and shows considerable pace when in the clear of his opponents. I'd suggest that he would have kicked at least 1/2 his goals this year running on the move ahead of his opponent.

I've watched him particularly closely over the last 18mths (as he's one of the favourites of The O) and it's his continual presenting and running to space that I think is his greatest strength. He's certainly a good lead, but its the almost gut running where he will often present 2 or 3 times on the lead to attract the footy that is just so pleasing to watch. I lost count of the number of times last night he attracted the footy leading up from CHF, where he would often spoil the attempted mark of the Dogs or 'break the pack' of players and allow the ball to fall to ground level. His endurance to present, chase and tackle when the opposition has the ball, is what modern football is all about. Mark my words, his best is still to come.

Gary Lyon wrote a great article recently about the new modern forwards required for the game, highlighting the mobility of Matthew Bate. Watching his development and confidence in his game grow certainly is a joy to watch.

A very good post, spot on.

The abuse he cops is often from those who don't actually understand the game. They fall for perception and watch the game with blinkers on. Instead of looking at what he can do, they look at what he can't do.

So the theory that these people have is because he isn't as fast as Aaron Davey, he is slow and should never play again.

He is a very efficient player and a lot of his work goes unoticed because it isnt flashy and he isnt a smooth mover like a Sylvia or Davey. He is a very important part of our future and when this is proven the negative nancys here will line up to apologise.

Edited May 8, 201015 yr by Melb16

So keen to watch the replay to see how he went. Sounded like he was clearly the best fwd on the ground.

Spot on. He was certainly the most potent, dangerous and effective forward on the ground. Arguably the best game I've seen him play. I think he's just starting to receive the accolades he deserves. He's definitely becoming one of the key players in our team though. We'd struggle without him.

bate will become even better when we get a power forward...

Totally agree Disco. It is a lot at the moment to ask him to consistently play on opponents who are taller and can out reach him. Still, good things always seem to happen when he gets near the ball.

I still want to see him pinch hit the middle from time to time as well.

Agree he was brilliant last night, I have always been a fan of him. Got to love a Ranga in the side....

Well done Master Keep it up

Always been a Fan. I want to see Matty Rip the Game in september. He will.

Love him.Absolutely love him.

BUT!

I have one or two concerns. Bate has this tendency to take a while to get a bit of momentum up. This applies to the times when he's running in a straight line, towards the ball, or away from the opposition.

But it ALSO applies to his career. We all know he took a little while to get going this year, and has done this a few times in his past. What concerns me is that the kind of player he is, he's always going to be at very least a thorn in the oppositions' side, or at best a matchwinner... ON THE 'G.

On smaller grounds, like the SCG, Etihad... I have concerns over the kind of footy he plays. He's a hard worker, and I have very few concerns about whether or not he puts in the effort. But sometimes it takes him a while to figure things out.

That's the issue. When he's SO good for 10-12 MCG games a year, you can't drop him when you go up the road to Etihad. But he seems to have trouble there.

I hope he can figure out some changes to his game to be able to fix this.

On smaller grounds, like the SCG, Etihad... I have concerns over the kind of footy he plays. He's a hard worker, and I have very few concerns about whether or not he puts in the effort. But sometimes it takes him a while to figure things out.

Played a blinder at Manuka last year or the year before. 5 or 6 goals. I'm pretty sure Manuka's smaller than the MCG.

I will admit it. I have always been a critique of Bate and the type of player he is.

Was worried that the game is too fast for him and he didn't have enough strengths to cover his weaknesses.

Last night he blew my mind....

Fantastic Game Bate. Really stood up for us. Saw a bit of leadership from the big fella last night.

Brilliant effort.

Well then good Sir, as has been pointed out in another thread, the only thing for you to do now is be berrated by a few self righteous posters and slap yourself in the face a couple of times and uppercut yourself apparently.

What a dirty week. Circumstances have made my great weekend turn shitty! Thanks life. Thanks for sucking!

BUMP

(this thread was in response to the Bulldogs game - to jog your memory - Scully 39, Pink Jumpers, and Brian Lake)

As many know, I have a lot of time for Bate.

It really is amazing how perceptions change so quickly, I really don't think it is reality that has changed - I think Bate is capable of playing in the future forward line of a competitive MFC.

With that said, he must deliver in 2011.

He is compared to Dunn a lot as they are vying for similar spots, however, if given the choice - I would still go with Bate.

Dunn had done nothing up until mid year 2010. From there he played 5 or 6 good games.

Bate has more runs on the board, and I realise that in list management, and in selecting the 22 - opinions must change as the facts change but I have seen more, more often from Bate than Dunn.

I would keep both for 2011.

Bate has more runs on the board, and I realise that in list management, and in selecting the 22 - opinions must change as the facts change but I have seen more, more often from Bate than Dunn.

I would keep both for 2011.

You're right, but I don't think it matters: "total combined minutes of good football" isn't a relavent statistic when assessing Dunn and Bate's place on the list. Brock McLean has still probably played more "total combined minutes of good football" than Colin Sylvia, but it's looking increasingly likely that Sylvia will have the better career.

Looking at the two, Bate's form has fluctuated since his debut and continues to do so, whereas Dunn consistently had little impact in his first four years, but has addressed his weaknesses (mostly his defensive efforts and general discipline, but I also think his leads have gotten smarter and he uses the ball better) and appears to have become a well-rounded player who negates the oppositions run out of half back while being dangerous himself. One player has taken the next step, the other hasn't.

I would keep them both for 2011, too. I think Bate's upside is greater than Dunn's and on song, he's a far more damaging player. On the other hand there are major weaknesses in his game that don't exist in Dunn's, and it makes him a liability at times; if he could neutralise them and close the gap between his best and his worst, he's talented enough to justify a spot in anyones forwardline.

He is compared to Dunn a lot as they are vying for similar spots, however, if given the choice - I would still go with Bate.

Heeeyyy. I thought I was on my own.

For the record though, I think you have to reward form, and if there was a round 23, Dunn would be easily preferred over Bate. I agree that he's done more and his best is probably a touch more dominant that Dunn (despite the 5 goal bag), but Dunn's earned his spot, and it's his to lose.

Going into 2011 though, both guys start over. Pre-season will show us where both are at.

As much as I've loved Watts getting games, I hope they play next season with all KP forwards on a clean slate. Play Petterd, Dunn, Bate, Watts and Jurrah on exposed form and let the chips fall where they may.

You're right, but I don't think it matters: "total combined minutes of good football" isn't a relavent statistic when assessing Dunn and Bate's place on the list. Brock McLean has still probably played more "total combined minutes of good football" than Colin Sylvia, but it's looking increasingly likely that Sylvia will have the better career.

Poor comparison. Brock's body is falling apart. That's the only reason he's not still putting distance between himself and Col. It's looking increasingly unlikely as the weeks and months roll by without him playing, but if he got himself right for half a season he'd remind us what he's capable of.

Looking at the two, Bate's form has fluctuated since his debut and continues to do so, whereas Dunn consistently had little impact in his first four years, but has addressed his weaknesses (mostly his defensive efforts and general discipline, but I also think his leads have gotten smarter and he uses the ball better) and appears to have become a well-rounded player who negates the oppositions run out of half back while being dangerous himself. One player has taken the next step, the other hasn't.

Again, I can't go with you there. Dunn's early season form, while busy, was frustrating and marginally sub-par. It's only the second half of the year that he's broken out. And even then, probably from the Dons game onwards. If whatever niggle Bate's dealing with clears up, and both start on even footing in their bodies next year, I'd expect Bate to go well past Dunn again. He already is a LONG way ahead of him.

I would keep them both for 2011, too. I think Bate's upside is greater than Dunn's, and on song, he's a far more damaging player. On the other hand there are major weaknesses in his game that don't exist in Dunn's, and it makes him a liability at times; if he could neutralise them and close the gap between his best and his worst, he's talented enough to justify a spot in anyones forwardline.

Yeah. I reckon there's actually room for both. We have those five big names to fit in. Jurrah, Petterd, Dunn, Bate and Watts. Petterd and Jurrah play pretty close to goal, but watching Dunn last weekend, I have a sneaking suspicion he's finally gaining some confidence in his overhead marking and contesting. Bate isn't a Full Forward's toenail clippings, but he's a great lead-up HF. If Dunn can go deeper, there's room for both. Given Petterd and Jurrah play small AND tall, I reckon you could go with...

FF Jurrah Dunn Petterd

HF Watts Bate Wonna

That's assuming a lot, of course. And it probably wouldn't happen that way. But I can dream. Oh... and Bennell on the bench.

So keen to watch the replay to see how he went. Sounded like he was clearly the best fwd on the ground.

Sorry, Liam Jurrah was the best forward on the ground by quite some distance.

You're right, but I don't think it matters: "total combined minutes of good football" isn't a relavent statistic when assessing Dunn and Bate's place on the list. Brock McLean has still probably played more "total combined minutes of good football" than Colin Sylvia, but it's looking increasingly likely that Sylvia will have the better career.

Looking at the two, Bate's form has fluctuated since his debut and continues to do so, whereas Dunn consistently had little impact in his first four years, but has addressed his weaknesses (mostly his defensive efforts and general discipline, but I also think his leads have gotten smarter and he uses the ball better) and appears to have become a well-rounded player who negates the oppositions run out of half back while being dangerous himself. One player has taken the next step, the other hasn't.

I would keep them both for 2011, too. I think Bate's upside is greater than Dunn's and on song, he's a far more damaging player. On the other hand there are major weaknesses in his game that don't exist in Dunn's, and it makes him a liability at times; if he could neutralise them and close the gap between his best and his worst, he's talented enough to justify a spot in anyones forwardline.

My major concern about Bate is he too often goes missing when we get well beaten. Dunn doesn't generally.

If Bate is to be in our best side, then he will need to improvehis consistency, and show a bit more fight when the going gets tough. In my view, Dunn is a much tougher and stronger player, and is also beginning to show his considerable skill. Bate maybe the more naturally gifted, but at the moment I think Dunn provides better value.

My major concern about Bate is he too often goes missing when we get well beaten. Dunn doesn't generally.

If Bate is to be in our best side, then he will need to improvehis consistency, and show a bit more fight when the going gets tough. In my view, Dunn is a much tougher and stronger player, and is also beginning to show his considerable skill. Bate maybe the more naturally gifted, but at the moment I think Dunn provides better value.

He is or was a barometer, at least up until this season. But playing in our forward line, even including this year but more specifically the last 2 years would have been a hell of a time.

Our good wins up until this year always seem to have Bater at the forefront of the better players. Correct me if I am wrong but I think he had a set back this pre-season and as has been pointed out above, he takes time to get going. Like a locomotive gathering steam!

He is still a very important member of the squad.