I'm not prepared to argue with you on this, as they say no one ever changed their mind because they lost an argument.

It might just be me, but I often change my mind when presented with a compelling argument.

It might just be me, but I often change my mind when presented with a compelling argument.

Agree wholeheartedly. why wouldnt you.

Back to the ...backs.. Seemed more stressed and stretched without Colin. without doub the stongest part of the ground for us this year, but not without concerns.

See your point re best pick amongst picks for PSd

Have you people actually seen McDonald play? His disposable is questionable and is decision making is even worse. I know Lions supporters who thought he was a disaster area who was only ever a second away from giving away a free kick or hand-balling straight to the opposition. They're giving me crap about Melbourne picking him up!

He will a depth player at best. Garland, Rivers, Frawley are all clearly better players.

I see getting Macdonald in the PSD as a free shot at getting a player who is almost certainly going to be better than whatever pick 70-something has to offer. I don't think the fact that he is a back has much to do with it at all really. He's just the best we're going to get with that pick.

I think our backline is sound anyway, and I don't share your view that we faltered when Garland fell. I'd actually say it's the one and only area of the ground where we consistently looked solid all year. Macdonald can release someone like Grimes in to a midfield role - break even for the backline, net gain for the midfield.

For those Super Coach nutcases amongst us interesting to note the following.

Joel MacDonald started season 2009 as the 4th highest valued Lion @ $507,000

Behind only Luke Power, Simon Black & Big Jono Brown.

Not sure what went down @ Brisbane but this guy is shaping as a huge get for The Dee's if all go's to plan.

Edited November 19, 200915 yr by Old Man Rivers

For those Super Coach nutcases amongst us interesting to note the following.

Joel MacDonald started season 2009 as the 4th highest valued Lion @ $507,000

Behind only Luke Power, Simon Black & Big Jono Brown.

Not sure what went down @ Brisbane but this guy is shaping as a huge get for The Dee's if the all go's to plan.

Yesss based on supercoach...

Nah i agree i think he could be a huge get, and he did rack up the points.

Agree wholeheartedly. why wouldnt you.

Back to the ...backs.. Seemed more stressed and stretched without Colin. without doub the stongest part of the ground for us this year, but not without concerns.

See your point re best pick amongst picks for PSd

Not sure where all this talk has come from about Macdonald being a defender that can potentially take Rivers' place. I really see them as 2 totally different players. I also don't see the theory behind Rivers being a CHB. What I do see in Rivers is a bloke that had a cracker debut season, then struggle with injury for the next 3 or 4 seasons (apart from 2006 where he played 22 games). 2009 saw easily his best season since his Rising Star year, with a better preseason under his belt. Some will obviously argue that if Garland had've stayed sound, Riv may have struggled too keep his spot. I agree, Garland is a good footballer, what could he have been like this year without injury?? Ask yourself the same question about how good Rivers could have been if he had had an injury free career.

The inclusion (if it eventuates) of Macdonald could be good. Sadly, blokes like Bell and Cheney will be struggling to get a game, when we've got other backs like Warnock, Frawley, Rivers, Garland, Joel Macdonald, Bennell, Morton, Grimes, plus we are going to have to slot Junior in there somewhere.

I'm still not convinced that we will pick J-Mac up, signs are obviously pointing in that direction, but there has been no word from Club or Player/Manager. Media reports are only assuming we have done a deal.

in all fairness he hardly does that now.. i will grant that the St Kilda game got a bit weird in the second half...and that's 'weird' even by our season 09 standards, but that aside his , and I raise this again, possibly confidence( read related to fitness ) plays a big role. He seldom now takes a contested mark.. probably wiesley opting for the knuckles. This becomes often too limiting in the effect of play. Those that will now interject with...well would you prefer an opposition mark ? No.!! and point taken.

with frawley , warnock and garland he DOESNT take much responsibility down there...surely ?

riv was never a contested marks kind of guy, before all his injuries, he was a type like gavin wanganeen, taking markes backing in front of packs, he is very brave,and that was been the cause of his injuries, and he reads the play better then most.

I see getting Macdonald in the PSD as a free shot at getting a player who is almost certainly going to be better than whatever pick 70-something has to offer. I don't think the fact that he is a back has much to do with it at all really. He's just the best we're going to get with that pick.

Thank you, I'm glad somebody gets it.

We're getting him, for all intents and purposes, for free.

He is a low investment for a club loaded with early picks, which has plenty of room in the cap and a huge gap in the 25 year- old bracket.

Worse case scenario he spends 2 years on the list, with minimal output, and we move on.

But he is experienced and he is a proven ball getter, and if he allows Grimes and Bennell to play in the midfield, it's a big plus.

Personally I think our backline is short of a medium sized defender, especially as Bell looks unlikely to make it, and Cheney is a battler (for now at least). McDonald seems a good fit, and for free, you say thank you and stop stressing over having too many options.

You can NEVER have too many good players.

Thank you, I'm glad somebody gets it.

We're getting him, for all intents and purposes, for free.

He is a low investment for a club loaded with early picks, which has plenty of room in the cap and a huge gap in the 25 year- old bracket.

Worse case scenario he spends 2 years on the list, with minimal output, and we move on.

But he is experienced and he is a proven ball getter, and if he allows Grimes and Bennell to play in the midfield, it's a big plus.

Personally I think our backline is short of a medium sized defender, especially as Bell looks unlikely to make it, and Cheney is a battler (for now at least). McDonald seems a good fit, and for free, you say thank you and stop stressing over having too many options.

You can NEVER have too many good players.

I don't know much about him I must confess, but I will accept our 2nd J.Mac for free in the PSD if that is the way we go. I am concerned though that if we want Thorp we may be out bid in the ND. If he is OK, fitting in and injury free, he gives us another key tall option and I would hope that we don't lose him to an earlier bid. Our earlier picks may end up being compromised if we are thinking we will get him at 50. Anyway we will know soon enough.

Not sure where all this talk has come from about Macdonald being a defender that can potentially take Rivers' place. I really see them as 2 totally different players. I also don't see the theory behind Rivers being a CHB. What I do see in Rivers is a bloke that had a cracker debut season, then struggle with injury for the next 3 or 4 seasons (apart from 2006 where he played 22 games). 2009 saw easily his best season since his Rising Star year, with a better preseason under his belt.

I suppose the notion here is that..and possibly my fault in alluding they were chalk and chalk.. I agree two differing style of player. Thats probably what the club is looking for..either on one hand variety..or alternatively a change up( or simply change ) in style of play from the back line. With Grimes we revisited the effects of poise , decision and skillful delivery off the half back line. maybe the club is looking to bolster this. JMac would reinforce this style ...more so that Rivers. ( my opinion...granted )

Hes not here yet..* JM ) and so we havent seen he and Riv play together..and so on. might be illuminating

Some will obviously argue that if Garland had've stayed sound, Riv may have struggled too keep his spot. I agree, Garland is a good footballer, what could he have been like this year without injury?? Ask yourself the same question about how good Rivers could have been if he had had an injury free career.

Id be one ;

we'll never know...unfortunately

The inclusion (if it eventuates) of Macdonald could be good. Sadly, blokes like Bell and Cheney will be struggling to get a game, when we've got other backs like Warnock, Frawley, Rivers, Garland, Joel Macdonald, Bennell, Morton, Grimes, plus we are going to have to slot Junior in there somewhere.

Bell wont play again in R and B ( H and A ) unless half the team falls over. Cheney will get more chances

Junior will I still believe play more of a cameo role this next ( and last ) season

I'm still not convinced that we will pick J-Mac up, signs are obviously pointing in that direction, but there has been no word from Club or Player/Manager. Media reports are only assuming we have done a deal.

well the MFC is all but shtumm on everyone ( as it ought to be ) seems a lot of smoke generated about his coming though...we'll know eventually...

may I suggest you get off your high horse.. you..whose comments are often nothing..but a nothingness in itself.

look in the mirror for glib !!

Strangely i was actually discussing two players.. you like play with mud ?

You know it's disappointing when someone shows a lot of promise and then has setbacks that see them being superceded by newcomers that play in a similar, if not identical, manner.

But I am not ready to give up yet. I think that redemption is at hand and that this cheap alternative will not push the old pro out of the side.

All this person needs is some time to get his mind right and he will come back in better shape than he has been in recently, which, needless to say, has been very average.

So, I say we keep BB59.

He'll turn it around soon...

Otherwise he's headed for 'the list,' and irrelevancy. You cannot insult your way to convincing those around you of your argument.

He copped a hiding from Miller last year so I 'm not going to be excited by this one. The PSD is a joke and with the changes to the rules for the ND it should be scrapped. Our first pick has virtually become pick 4 with Ball, Bradshaw and McPhee not wanting to come to us.

I don't know much about him I must confess, but I will accept our 2nd J.Mac for free in the PSD if that is the way we go. I am concerned though that if we want Thorp we may be out bid in the ND. If he is OK, fitting in and injury free, he gives us another key tall option and I would hope that we don't lose him to an earlier bid. Our earlier picks may end up being compromised if we are thinking we will get him at 50. Anyway we will know soon enough.

If we really wanted Thorp, we would have asked him to nominate for the PSD with a guarantee to pick him up. We're obviously in two minds about him, or think McDonald is more likely to be snapped up earlier in a National Draft situation.

I'm confident we'll be able to grab Thorp at 34, if we think he is worth it.

If we really wanted Thorp, we would have asked him to nominate for the PSD with a guarantee to pick him up. We're obviously in two minds about him, or think McDonald is more likely to be snapped up earlier in a National Draft situation.

I'm confident we'll be able to grab Thorp at 34, if we think he is worth it.

Reported on another thread he has stress fractures in his foot. Wouldn't be using 34.

Otherwise he's headed for 'the list,' and irrelevancy. You cannot insult your way to convincing those around you of your argument.

Seems you know all about it... what was that word...oh yes glib <_<

Somewhere in amongst this was a discussion about players...til hijacked by the irrelevancies youre so fond of noting.

Shall we continue with the attending the ball ? Hmm or you want to further your emmitance of platitudes ?

back to regular programming:

Rumour has it Thorpe may indeed carry an injury. This reduces his lustre. In this light MFc may wel ljust be keeping its options open regarding him. why commit if you dont need to.

In fairness to Mac i dont think he was totally fit for some games last season but seemed quite Ok this year. I think he adds a dimension to the backline.

Weve yet to see who will actually nominate for the PSD...there may well yet be a surprise or two.

Thorp in the rookie draft? One can dream

Thorp in the rookie draft? One can dream

only if either of Meesen or Newton go

Reported on another thread he has stress fractures in his foot. Wouldn't be using 34.

Didn't see that.

Wouldn't be using 134 either in that case. I think we have enough fractured feet to stress about.