If Ball is prepared to put himself in the draft, he is prepared to accept he might get picked by Melbourne, which is tantamount to him giving Melbourne the green light.

Take him with 18.

I fail to see how Ball choosing the ND over the PSD is tantamount to him saying he'd be happy if he ended up here.

He has chosen the ND because it provides him with a better option than the PSD. Therefore he doesn't like what the PSD offers. Therefore he doesn't want to play for Melbourne.

Ignore him please.

He just is not that good a player. His body is struggling to keep up with modern footy, and cant kick more than 35 metres. Id rather take the gamble on a Ben Griffiths or Vardy if still available.

Agree. He is not worth Pick 18. I'd be very unhappy if we took him at 18.

I don't know what's so surprising. I posted some of the following on Oct 24 after a discussion with his manager Paul Connors:

"The Ball Camp:

1. An influential Family member doesn't want Ball to go to Melb. He's done the hard yards at another club and Melb's window for a flag is considered to be at least 5 years away. He's Captained another club and has probably passed the stage in his career where he wants to revisit struggle street, albeit they know Melb's future is very very good.

2. They consider it a "2 to 1 chance" that he'll reach Collingwood in the ND. I was surprised. At this stage, and it could well change as they firm up the chances of reaching C'Wood, the likley scenario is that he'll take his chances in the ND in the belief that he'll get there."

The "influential family member is his Father Ray.

This is no slap in the face to Melbourne and Ball has in no way disrespected the MFC. He just doesn't want to play with us. If I was him I wouldn't either. They have believed for some time that they're "2 to 1" to get to C'Wood at pick 30.

Everybody who wants to get Luke Ball and possibly use Pick 18 to get him need to get off the dope.

He does'nt want to play for us. So why even waste your time talking about him anymore. The Ball is not in our court!

I think we should assess taking him when it is our turn to call out pick 18.

I would think he is good value at 18, he'll want to play for us if he gets drafted by us.

Would be very dissapointed if we used pick 18 for Luke Ball and I can't see it happening really.

My hope is we pick up someone like Black,Carlisle,Griffiths,Talia,Vardy or other such talented youngsters that can be part of a bright future with the MFC.

I think we should assess taking him when it is our turn to call out pick 18.

Coralling a bloke into playing for us is akin to a hostage taken trying to woo his prey. What on earth makes you think that given footy ( like many ) things is 99% between the ears ,that you will have valuable willing and performing servant simply because youve grabbed him ? it doesnt work that way.

if you cant convince his mind to play for you ...you think his body will??

I would think he is good value at 18, he'll want to play for us if he gets drafted by us.

Why...because he HAS to?? laughable.. You going to hypnotise him into wanting to be a Dee?

If he wants elsewhere he can have elsewhere.. Much bettter to take a player ( with any pick ) who is 'available" and "willing" to play for the adoptee club

I think we should assess taking him when it is our turn to call out pick 18.

I would think he is good value at 18, he'll want to play for us if he gets drafted by us.

This thread was prompted by Caro's article in the Age this morning . St Kilda has said nothing - and the Hun has said nothing. It's just possible that we are all jumping at shadows.

If Caro is right _ and I think she probably is - then we've got to forget him. There's no way I'd sacrifice a good young prospect at pick 18 for a 25 year old who can't even be bothered talking to us.

The door is now open for Thorp - if he displays the right attitude at training

The door is now open for Thorp - if he displays the right attitude at training

strange in a manner that a kid whos major downside was apparently attitude is displaying much of the right type in having a go.. Chalk and cheese isnt it

strange in a manner that a kid whos major downside was apparently attitude is displaying much of the right type in having a go.. Chalk and cheese isnt it

Yes ....I know exactly what you mean ( though it is chalk and cheese !)

2. They consider it a "2 to 1 chance" that he'll reach Collingwood in the ND. I was surprised. At this stage, and it could well change as they firm up the chances of reaching C'Wood, the likley scenario is that he'll take his chances in the ND in the belief that he'll get there."

...

...

They have believed for some time that they're "2 to 1" to get to C'Wood at pick 30.

You did post that. Information first hand. Even money he'll be a Pie.

Next.

Coralling a bloke into playing for us is akin to a hostage taken trying to woo his prey. What on earth makes you think that given footy ( like many ) things is 99% between the ears ,that you will have valuable willing and performing servant simply because youve grabbed him ? it doesnt work that way.

if you cant convince his mind to play for you ...you think his body will??

Why...because he HAS to?? laughable.. You going to hypnotise him into wanting to be a Dee?

If he wants elsewhere he can have elsewhere.. Much bettter to take a player ( with any pick ) who is 'available" and "willing" to play for the adoptee club

If he has nominated for the National Draft he is prepared to play where he gets picked, just because he prefers Collingwood doesn't mean he doesn't want to play for us. The club has more of an idea about his commitment level than we do here speculating about his intentions based on his choice of draft.

And I don't rate pick 18 as much as Ball, despite his preference for Collingwood.

If he has nominated for the National Draft he is prepared to play where he gets picked, just because he prefers Collingwood doesn't mean he doesn't want to play for us. The club has more of an idea about his commitment level than we do here speculating about his intentions based on his choice of draft.

And I don't rate pick 18 as much as Ball, despite his preference for Collingwood.

if hes prepared to play for us ( I personally dontt hink he is...but will allow the obvious that others think he might ) then why not indeed play for us in a manner which speaks well of you ( the player ) and your efforts to allow the club to use its resources to the max..

Its a mercenary position, but I dont see how its well constructed. He is throwing away self determination for guesswork. Theres no sense in that.

I think if he nominates for the ND then he has defacto made his intentions clear to us...and hoping like hell he survives through to either Essendon or Collingwood. welcome to both.

He risks Port and Nth at the very least.

if this is the way he thinks I dont want him in a Red and Blue jumper holding a ball and having to make decisions !!

Was never convinced by the arguments that he had only 2 options - St.Kilda or MFC.

I thought plan A was St.Kilda but he must have irreconcilable differences with Ross Lyon. He obviously doesn't want to come to MFC and we shouldn't pick him. This is no big surprise or insult - he just doesn't want to go back to 2001 - fair enough, he's done that pain.

He must regard North (re-build) and Brisbane (re-locate) as no more evil than MFC. Probably rates Essendon as significantly more desirable. And keeps his dream alive of possibly getting through to Collingwood. The only wildcard is Choco, with only 3 picks it seems unlikely he'd use 16 on Ball, but who knows what he thinks?

I read with some amusement the discussion re the Pies prospects in 2010 in the other Ball thread. If he does indeed get through to them, together with Jolly and Pendlebury back (who they sorely missed in last year's finals) they'll be a real premiership threat in 2010. The Saints don't want this (and probably neither does anyone else) and would be happier if he went to North or Essendon.

if hes prepared to play for us ( I personally dontt hink he is...but will allow the obvious that others think he might ) then why not indeed play for us in a manner which speaks well of you ( the player ) and your efforts to allow the club to use its resources to the max..

Its a mercenary position, but I dont see how its well constructed. He is throwing away self determination for guesswork. Theres no sense in that.

I think if he nominates for the ND then he has defacto made his intentions clear to us...and hoping like hell he survives through to either Essendon or Collingwood. welcome to both.

He risks Port and Nth at the very least.

if this is the way he thinks I dont want him in a Red and Blue jumper holding a ball and having to make decisions !!

Still not enough of a reason to not pick him up IMHO. If we pick him up, he will play and play well, for 5 or 6 years and his leadership will be an asset to the club. His choice of draft doesn't change that.

Still not enough of a reason to not pick him up IMHO. If we pick him up, he will play and play well, for 5 or 6 years and his leadership will be an asset to the club. His choice of draft doesn't change that.

we'll agree to differ :D

I personally think his choice does warrant consideration.

Still nothing official on Ball. I would have thought something would have come out by now, could still be b/s. 2:00pm deadline is approaching.

For those considering the relative merrits of picking up Ball/kid at pick 18.

Previous Pick 18s:

2008 Luke Shuey

2007Alex Rance

2006 Leroy Jetta

2005 Max Bailey

2004 Cameron Wood

2003 Llane Spaanderman

2002 Kris Shore

2001 Shane Harvey

2000Daniel Kerr

1999 Rhys Shaw (F/S) (preceded at 17 by Ezra Bray)

1998 Daniel Schell

1999 Mark Alvey

Source: Wiki "AFL Draft"

About as relevant as picking your Tattslotto numbers based on the numbers drawn on the previous 10 weeks.

And if he is not prepared to come to us in the PSD, I not sure we should be wasting pick 18 on him.

If Ball had wanted to play for us he would have met with us. His decision to go into the ND is his only real way to Collingwood.

And Hannibal's information would seem consistent with the decisions taken to date.

By nominating in the National draft he has said to the MFC I don't want to play for you. Good luck Luke we will wave to you as we past what ever team you go to.

About as relevant as picking your Tattslotto numbers based on the numbers drawn on the previous 10 weeks.

Well that is just incorrect.

Perhaps it is better to judge the value of pick 18 by asking you what you 'Reckon'.

Firstly, if he has decided to quit St. Kilda, he will have a while before he has to nominate for the draft, is that correct?

Melbourne still have time to talk to him.

I'm actually becoming more keen on Jurrah's cousin!

Firstly, if he has decided to quit St. Kilda, he will have a while before he has to nominate for the draft, is that correct?

Melbourne still have time to talk to him.

I'm actually becoming more keen on Jurrah's cousin!

I was under the impression that he has to nominate for the ND by 2:00 today.

Correct, today 2pm. But!! He needs to be delisted by the Saints before then. Otherwise he is ineligible for the National Draft.

Well that is just incorrect.

Perhaps it is better to judge the value of pick 18 by asking you what you 'Reckon'.

Based on where you're drawing conclusions from reading tealeaves might be good too.

Was never convinced by the arguments that he had only 2 options - St.Kilda or MFC.

'Game theory' requires all parties to make reasonable and rational decisions.

This is not a rational decision by Ball and his entourage, and it might lead to an unreasonable conclusion.

Sydney should spend 14 on him, PA should spend 16 on him, MFC should spend 18 on him, NM should spend 21 or 25 on him, Essendon should spend 24 or 26 on him, the Lions should spend 27 on him, and Collingwood should never get near him.

I am not saying we will spend 18 on him, but he represents a good value return for all those clubs I mentioned.

As I have said before - Luke Ball owes us nothing, but there is little doubt that he thinks that playing for us is akin to retirement and we should be wary.

Ball walks away from Saints...Official

nudge nudge wink wink say no more